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Chance of Lwów once again became coming part of Poland


Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #211
Bez przesady ;)

Ever been to Lviv, lad? I'd love to see it :) I've gotta start saving better first.
David_18 68 | 982
18 Aug 2011 #212
On pictures ;)

But a roadtrip to Lwow someday would be cool. To bad the summer ends now, but i guess its a nice place in the winter too. But taking a pint in the Rynek during the summer beats a pint inside a dark pub.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
18 Aug 2011 #213
comment edited..

you are all over this thread and you keep repeating my name, why don't you check what I have actually said here....ah and get something for your ADHD :)

Let me ask you, I-S, grubas, MyMom and anyone else that is still pent-up about Lwów. Why does Poland work together with Ukraine as part of PolUkrBat?? Because they can understand each other and are really very similar. Why deny that?

What you are even talking about Sean, wrong thread.

I don t want to comment destructive & aggressive positions.

what would be the point anyway?

Lviv is Ukrainian.

so?
MediaWatch 10 | 945
18 Aug 2011 #214
2 Media:
:) Very nice! :)
I know that lots of our people live in US.
& it s another evidence that people can get along together no matter what nationality they present.
I ve met many Poles & we had a good time!

den_fcdk,

This does not surpise me.

The Ukrainian Americans who I met seemed to respect and like me for being a Polish American.

I have never sensed any anti-Polish feelings from them.

They seemed like good humble people to me. I enjoyed being with them and knowing them.

I respect Ukrainians, because in my opinion, Ukraine has suffered in ways similar to the way Poland has suffered. Perhaps Ukraine has suffered even more then Poland with the Holdomor where the Soviet Union killed off 8 to 10 million Ukrainians with Stalin's famine on Ukraine.

The Ukrainians suffered through the Holdomor which the world seems to not care about. In the Polish American newspapers I read, they report how Polish Americans and Polish Canadians work with Ukrainian American and Ukrainian Canadians for Slavic diaspora unity and remembrance of common Polish and Ukraine suffering under the Soviet Union.

Ukrainians should be proud of how they have perservered through Soviet domination to become a respected country today which I believe will have a substantial positive influence in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe :)

Poland has been the biggest supporter of Ukraine especially in integrating it with the rest of Europe.

I am glad to see that relations between Ukraine and Poland have improved over recent years. It just goes to show that nations which have had past differences can become friends over time.

The late Polish president Kaczynski and Ukrainian president Yushenko were good friends. :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
18 Aug 2011 #215
I have never sensed any anti-Polish feelings from them.

You do realise that there's a Bandera statue in L'viv?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Aug 2011 #216
Bandera was a kind of hero because he was perceived to have fought for the people. In times of war, such characters are desirable.
den_fcdk - | 28
18 Aug 2011 #217
I know that there were very dramatic periods in Ukraine-Poland relations.
The war is a great drama.

For modern Ukrainian the modern Pole is not an enemy.
Thanx, Media, for such pleasant words about our people!!
It s just great to "hear"! Really!
Nickidewbear 23 | 584
20 Aug 2011 #218
You want to take any part of Rosz, Meszekh, w'Tubal into Polinjah? That is your scztik. I will say that you help increase the rates of alijah, though; toda raba.
MyMom 6 | 137
20 Aug 2011 #219
Bandera was a kind of hero because he was perceived to have fought for the people. In times of war, such characters are desirable.

Yes, especially when there is need to efficiently murder large number of women and children in ways unimaginable to a normal person.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 Aug 2011 #220
I doubt the need is there but nevermind....
MediaWatch 10 | 945
20 Aug 2011 #221
Yes, especially when there is need to efficiently murder large number of women and children in ways unimaginable to a normal person

Some of the things reported to have been done by Bandera, were exagerated by the Soviets, so that there would be more division between Ukrainians and Poles. Just like anti-semitic things done by Poles and Ukrainians were exaggerated by the Soviets so that there would be divisions between Poles-Ukrainians and Jews.

The Soviets knew it was easiest to rule ethnic groups that were divided.
MyMom 6 | 137
21 Aug 2011 #222
Some of the things reported to have been done by Bandera, were exagerated by the Soviets, so that there would be more division between Ukrainians and Poles.

There is nothing they could possibly exagerate to make it look any more evil than it really was.
Anyway, I saw on Polish TV today how some old Polish lady from Volhynia expressed her hope that some day those lands return to Poland :D

Also, some old folks said that they NEVER heard Lithuanian language being spoken while they were living in Wilno before the war. Is there a thread about the chance of Wilno becoming part of Poland again?
MediaWatch 10 | 945
21 Aug 2011 #223
Anyway, I saw on Polish TV today how some old Polish lady from Volhynia expressed her hope that some day those lands return to Poland :D

Mom,

The only way Poland could get any more territory is by starting a war and nobody wants that.

The only other way (without a war) is if Poland double's its population and pushes its people into lands it wants (like other large population nations have done to get territory). The Poles aren't reproducing enough to increase their population, so you can forget that option also.

So for now its just a hope and a dream. Which is fine since people are free to hope and dream about whatever they want.

Maybe Poland should just focus on for now, managing and operating well the land it has today.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
21 Aug 2011 #224
The writer Von Sacher-Masoch who's name is the origin of the M in S&M was from Lemberg too. Does Lwów have a reputation in Poland as being a kinky city?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
21 Aug 2011 #225
Does Lwów have a reputation in Poland as being a kinky city?

Actually, it has a reputation of being a cultured, civilised place.



Educate yourself.

Alas, the lyrics will be beyond you, not being a Polish speaker.
southern 75 | 7,096
21 Aug 2011 #226
Does Lwów have a reputation in Poland as being a kinky city?

I have been there and it is quite kinky.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
21 Aug 2011 #227
That's good. I would be neat if it was like a Mecca for masochists and it's sadistic residents could make a good living wielding the whip doin what they love to do, eliciting involuntary vocal responses from their subjects.
MyMom 6 | 137
24 Aug 2011 #228
Some documentary airs today on TVP Info on Volhynia massacres (which were not really limited to Volhynia). They describe it as:

Dokumentalna opowieść o zbrodniach, których w pierwszej połowie lat czterdziestych ukraińscy nacjonaliści dokonali na Polakach mieszkających na Wołyniu i w Małopolsce Wschodniej.

I like how they used the proper name for the area of Lwów, Tarnopol and Stanisławów - Małopolska Wschodnia.
gumishu 11 | 5,632
24 Aug 2011 #229
Małopolska Wschodnia.

the term was ever a false premise - and it is not ancient by any means - I guess it originated somewhere in the nineteenth century
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
24 Aug 2011 #230
What's interesting is that Poles didn't actually form a majority of people there.
gumishu 11 | 5,632
24 Aug 2011 #231
that's why I said the name is misleading
Ironside 50 | 10,907
24 Aug 2011 #232
What's interesting is that Poles didn't actually form a majority of people there.

where ?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
24 Aug 2011 #233
the term was ever a false premise - and it is not ancient by any means - I guess it originated somewhere in the nineteenth century

Not at all, the term Małopolska was used since XV century.

that's why I said the name is misleading

By 1940 Poles were a majority in every single city (upwards of 70% population) and more than 90% of all elites for more than 400 years so i daresay the name is not misleading.

Also yes the Poles were a numerical majority in Małopolska Wschodnia at nearly 3 milion people as compared to 1.5 milion Ukrainians, 1.3 milion Ruthenians (Belarussians/Russians at this point) and some 400k Jews, that makes Poles more than 50% of total population and more than twice as large as any other group.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
24 Aug 2011 #234
Also yes the Poles were a numerical majority in Małopolska Wschodnia at nearly 3 milion people as compared to 1.5 milion Ukrainians, 1.3 milion Ruthenians (Belarussians/Russians at this point) and some 400k Jews, that makes Poles more than 50% of total population and more than twice as large as any other group.

I think you need maths lessons Sok - 1.5 million, plus 1.3 million, plus 400k = 3.2 million. There were (as you say) - nearly 3 million Poles - therefore - they weren't -

50% of total population

where ?

In "Małopolska Wschodnia".

No bad thing, just a curious side note to history that they weren't a majority in that area.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
25 Aug 2011 #235
No bad thing, just a curious side note to history that they weren't a majority in that area.

So what if they were or not ? who the hell care ?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
25 Aug 2011 #236
who the hell care ?

People who are interested in history and demographics?

So what if they were or not ?

Depends on what view you take.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
25 Aug 2011 #237
I think you need maths lessons Sok - 1.5 million, plus 1.3 million, plus 400k = 3.2 million. There were (as you say) - nearly 3 million Poles - therefore - they weren't

No, to be specific they constituted 48.2% in 1928 (later it rose but i dont have access to any statistics) which makes them a majority of the population, the majority of the population since they were twice as large as any other group, thats called majority in any studies.

No bad thing, just a curious side note to history that they weren't a majority in that area.

Yes they were, relative to any other population whom they outnumbered 2:1 which combined with the fact that such demographics prevailed for the past 300 years made it a very polish land in every respect, historic, cultural and demographic.

Depends on what view you take.

How about you take a polish view for a second.

Poland comes to Ukraine, builds roads, bridges, schools, universities, brings an army that stabilizes the region that was the european equivalent of the warring Africa, for 400+ years Poles develop the region, everything thats built is built by Poles or commissioned by Poles, then after 400+ years the ukrainian minority decides that the land and all polish property on it should belong to them because their distant ancestors had a bunch of castles in the area almost half a millenium ago.

They walk in shoes made by polish factories, their water, heating, food and schools are there only because of Poles, they themselves contributed nothing for half a millenium yet the land is theirs because of what?
f stop 25 | 2,513
25 Aug 2011 #238
on that video, Tylko we Lwowie, what are those long sticks many are holding? Horse whips?
Palivec - | 380
25 Aug 2011 #239
Yes they were, relative to any other population whom they outnumbered 2:1 which combined with the fact that such demographics prevailed for the past 300 years made it a very polish land in every respect, historic, cultural and demographic.

No, it made it a multicultural land.

then after 400+ years the ukrainian minority decides that the land and all polish property on it should belong to them because their distant ancestors had a bunch of castles in the area almost half a millenium ago.

Poles did the same in their "recovered territories".
gumishu 11 | 5,632
25 Aug 2011 #240
on that video, Tylko we Lwowie, what are those long sticks many are holding? Horse whips?

yes, the guys with the horse whips where taxi drivers of the time


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