I'm not sure; I didn't ask. I think he was from Lwow originally however they said he'd been in the Blue Police in at least one place then after the war in England.
Good. So you in fact approve of him including the testimony of the last surviving eyewitness
And disapprove of .
(Had to shorten the quote) Why would I be against it in the first place?! When have I ever given the impression of it? Just cause I have an opposed view of somebody, doesn't mean I treat them how you seem to think I would
Really... Most Poles know perfectly well of the blue Police, especially the historians. You not knowing of the amount of "samobiczowanie" in the history of Poland makes you only an outsider to every Polish reader...
No nation wishes to be publically besmirched! But when extant eye-witness evidentiary accounts are overwhelming, testimony MUST be heard. @Mr. Grunvald, I too am intimitely familiar with Den norske Modstandsbevegelse :-)
You assume that a) I'm "not knowing" and b) that this forum is aimed at "Polish readers".
Do you remember the furore a couple of decades back when a historian published letters by Poles denouncing people for being in the AK to the occupying Nazis? There were a lot of people who wish the book hadn't been published and tried to argue that it shouldn't.
Time for a book about the Blue Police though, maybe a film.
"Most Poles know perfectly well of the blue Police, especially the historians. You not knowing of the amount of "samobiczowanie" in the history of Poland makes you only an outsider to every Polish reader..."
Ive never heard of them until I was in prison and this black guy mentioned them there to me from Madagascar who was in Warsaw and had Jewish friends in the bay area. I grew up in Poland until age 9 and they never taught me even the holocaust or blue police until I was in the 7th grade I learned about such things in the USA not in Poland. I also never see any of this stuff mentioned on Poland In on youtube or any Polish nes tv channel. even the us history channel never mentioned it.
You said this guy was held by them in Lwów? was he Jewish Polish Ukrainian? curious what his story is.
to be honest I have never read Gross's books (including the one on Jedwabne) - what I heard about it is from the sources close to Polish nationalists - I believed that the crime of Jedwabne was perpetrated by a couple of dozens of Poles (this is what the 1950's trial established and what initial Polish critics of Gross maintained) - and I was perplexed how a few dozens of people without firearms managed to cattle 1600 people (as Gross claims) into a barn to burn them alive
I think this whole thread is pretty disgusting. As I posted in the Serbian thread, there were bad guys on all sides. But WW2 in Poland was particularly disgusting due to the extreme barbarity of the Germans and Russians. People tried to survive and sometimes survival was more important to them than morality. It is easy for us to judge them now, in the comfort of our homes and comfortable lives, but it does not gain us anything.
There were some bad Poles, just as there were some bad Jews. But in the main, people tried to do the right thing. And in any case, we are certainly in no position to judge them.
"It is easy for us to judge them now, in the comfort of our homes and comfortable lives, but it does not gain us anything."
so why does the polish govt or Polish film studios sponsor movies about Ukrainians and not themselves though? im sure they didn't have much choice either considering they became a soviet republic and were starved to death a couple yrs earlier and all... so why push for these movies against the economic migrants in Poland? is it because the EU forces Poland to take them in instead of the third worlders or non whites but they're still pissed? is it? it is it now? also you say you don't want to think of the past but why does the current Polish govt so strongly focused on it and dwelling about it then? why do they have to mention it in neighbouring relations all the time on Polish TV or media? i think its more disgusting belittling and bullying people whoa re economic migrants in ur own country while taking money from the EU, but hey that's just me.
The real issue is that we are not in a position to judge. It is not a case of whitewashing, but more of a case of not aportioning blame when we are not in a position to do so.
" Are you a Uke? Ukrainians sided with the Germans during the war and in many instances were more brutally Nazi than the Germans. Next?"
id rather be than a pollack to tell the truth. they are much better people than the retarded pollacks I see every day or have to deal with any pollack govt office or zabka to tell the truth. and pollacks did as well when it came to jews so maybe they deserved it? i mean plus the pilsudski **** who sides with Hitler too omits really npot calling the kettle black here. if they didn't do it ur own would like ur own retard pollacks who sing heil Hitler and march in that retarded parade in Warsaw every yr called the marsh niepodleglosci so why fault them for what you tried to do? or would have had your great leader pilsudski not died and still have apparently in small numbers with the blur police and jedwabne?
We should never judge, however we shouldn't try to conceal the harder parts of recent history now. Or there'll be all the more scandal when they eventually do.
Sometimes I get irritated when British historians seem to be washing the country's dirty linen in public. Better to get it over with and move on though. Or the alternative is not moving on.
Ukrainians
Those guys were young and had grown up in the worst period of history to date. They did what wasn't what they'd had (if that makes sense).
he just judged the Ukrainians tho so im just judging him and the Polish he loves so much. thy sided with them as well otherwise there would have been no #polishdesthcsmps or any arysn side everyone would be equal in Poland and no jedwabne would take place. what a retard.
"Those guys were young and had grown up in the worst period of history to date. They did what wasn't what they'd had (if that makes sense)."
i don't know man i judge people today and the Polish alongside the Arabs or middle easterners and blacks in USA are some of the biggest scum tod ste. Ukrainians in Poland are the only good people i ever run into. the only non patologia or pathology at any customer service for instance or any civilized ppl not born in a barn like them here. and im neutral or objective living in the west or civilized world my whole life so...
and i don't think they make movies over Poland or obsess about it killing Jews or 1930 pow do they? so why should i give the polish a benefit of the doubt when they literally are just asking to be scrutinized and choose such a government or take in such propaganda against others daily? do the Jews make movies about Poland or jedwabne or their own economic migrants? I just judge ppl how i see them or how thy act. they don't wannabe judge so why judge others daily?
"Ukrainians sided with the Germans during the war and in many instances were more brutally Nazi than the Germans. Next?"
whats more brutal than being burnt alive in a barn? even the Nazis only cremated jews but killed them humanely with gas first so i think pollacks were also more brutal than the nazis. just because they did it on a smaller scale doesn't mean they still did it or didn't do it i mean the only reason they did it on a smaller scale was because their great leader Pilsudski died and nazis considered them untermenschen or didn't respect them despite dirk and other modern pollacks acting like they'd belong.
is what ok? Polish people killing Jews? or your current **** govt pointing its fingers like you at everyone else and every country around you and acting like some retarded victim and never yourselves? why should i have any respect for hypocrites? i don't care that Ukrainians Germans or Polish killed Jews or one another or whoever else i simply hate hypocrites with a passion. That is all son. hypocrites should literally be gassed.
also please explain to me whats a more brutal way to die or what Ukrainians did worse than those polish people at jedwabne and being burnt alive? maybe boiled alive is the only worse way to go bro. there are documentaries on youtube for worlds worse punishments or deaths and boiled alive and i think burnt fall in line alongside basically what Ukrainians did or hanged wuarelledmand quartered. how are you better than them? is it because the Ukrainians would take their time and it would take longer to die than the body burning in jedwabne? is that it?
So, Jews must have been hypocrytes then..... reason enough to kill them in your twisted opinion....I think this conversation is over....I feel sick....and need to take a hot shower to clean myself from this exposure....
nompollacks are the only hypocrites. Jews don't make movies about being tortured slowly by you ir Ukrainians. you and your current right wing govt does about your own economic migrants it is forced to take by EU to keep EU money. last i heard they still haven't made a Wolyn movie particularly to bully young people if all of a sudden you become economic migrants in Israel. what country is lower than that? but since you probably don't even live in Poland you probably don't even know of this movie or what you see on Polish TV when turning it on and the hypocrisy from your land. and when are they going to start teaching real history in schools here like the blue police? or the truth about Jagiello who was no hero and how Lithuania was superior?
you don't think Nazis were more humane than being burnt in a barn by the Polish? you would rather be burnt alive than simply gassed first?
I just don't get why so many Ukrainians in Poland act like they're Polish or don't admit they are Ukrainians. Why not have pride where they came from? Like I said I think you're just part of the problem Miloslaw and hope in England or wherever you live they start making jedwabne and Polish death camp movies and about blue police and see how you like it. I'm sure there has to be a reason they clearly speak with Ukrainian accents but claim to be Polish or is it just me guys?This is why the world the western or civilized world looks down on Poland. how can you respect such hypocrites who take EU money but talk **** about their neighbours while not admitting to their own **** Milo? the hashtag polishdeathcamps is not literal it isn't saying that Poles were responsible for it but complicit in it Milo. Get it now?
and yea I think they're good people and better than Polish or certainly Polonia in my books. when I used to train mma they wouldn't try ordering you around or telling you what to do or acting like criminal inmates in California prisons trying to establish their dick male toxicity dominance on you their training partners. also they're more respectful as clerks in stores. just food people overall.
