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Malinowo: Polish-Nazi Supression?


gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #121
eyewitness's testimony should have been censored

I don't know of any testimony that would contradict those from the 1949 trial - please show me if you have any
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Feb 2021 #122
A very good article here:

PiS accepts no debate over Polish collective memory; its only goal is to make others subscribe to the party's vision of history.

The determination shown by Kaczynski's party in creating.its own national mythology is remarkably ironic, because it.exhibits features more typical of a communist, totalitarian movement than

foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/12/polands-historical-revisionism-is-pushing-it-into-moscows-arms-smolensk-kaczynski-pis-law-justice-holocaust-law/
gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #123
is-pushing-it-into-moscows-arms-smolensk-

a manipulation even in the title - at least I see it as such - Kaczyński is the most remote person to an Russian apologist I know
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Feb 2021 #124
a manipulation

Or independent reportage, something PiS hate.

I don't know of any testimony that would contradict

Have you actually been following the thread?

To repeat the question for a sixth time: Do you think the eyewitness's testimony should have been censored because it reflects badly on someone?
gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #125
eyewitness's testimony should have been censored

I haven't seen any of the kind you keep on mentioning - please quote it
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Feb 2021 #126
you bring up

I bring up? Have you been following the thread that you're pathetically trying to derail? Or read any of the links here to articles about the censorship scxandal?

It won't go away you know...

To repeat the question for a seventh time: Do you think the eyewitness's testimony should have been censored because it reflects badly on someone?
gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #127
Have you been following the thread that you're pathetically trying to derail?

I have just read the thread through and I never found anybody mention testimonies that contradict those given in the 1949 trial of Malinowski - if you have just quote it
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Feb 2021 #128
I never found anybody mention testimonies

That's what the thread is about. It's all in the links. Did you read them beyond their titles?

There's plenty yet to come over this PiS led attempt to silence historians. The next few months should be very interesting.
gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #129
It's all in the links

I read this link you posted just now -esiemiatycze.pl/artykul/dziadkowice-ydom-zamordowanych-w-okolicy-malinowa/398174 and it is exactly the Edward Malinowski whom the libel case involved who explained that it was some other Pole who denounced hiding Jews - read carefully - there are no testimonies against Edward Malinowski in the article - maybe your Polish skills need a little honing Jon
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Feb 2021 #130
there are no testimonies against Edward Malinowski in the article

Follow the thread carefully. Read the various other links from myself and others.

There'll be plenty enough added as the scandal develops.

Do you think historians should be restricted in what they can say about dead people?
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,245
10 Feb 2021 #131
Spot on, matey! History's always in search of victims, the weak link (no pun intended) on the wheel of causality. Once, it was the Jews, today the Muslims, tomorrow? Who knows for certain?
gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #132
@jon357

so ok - i read the Deutche Welle link - and it states that one of the survivors who was helped by Edward Malinowski claims that he was instrumental in the deaths of several dozens of other Jews - how do you reconcile this? - there were other Jews who survived the war thanks to Malinowski as the 1949 (or 1950) trial found - how do you reconcile this
jon357 67 | 16,836
10 Feb 2021 #133
how do you reconcile this

Does it need to be "reconciled" by you or I?

Just because someone allegedly did something good according to a witness, do you think that excludes the possibility of them also allegedly doing something bad according to a witness?

Do you think historians should be restricted in what they can say about dead people?
gumishu 11 | 5,632
10 Feb 2021 #134
something bad

you know what - my guess is the witness who claimed that Malinowski helped to kill other Jews never actually witnessed it as the e-siemiatycze link makes me think
gumishu 11 | 5,632
11 Feb 2021 #135
Do you think historians should be restricted in what they can say about dead people?

I'll answer you with an example - what if after you die somebody prints somewhere that you raped little children - would your children be happy with it
jon357 67 | 16,836
11 Feb 2021 #136
would your children be happy with it

It's irrelevant.

If something's material to a historical investigation a historian can quote what a witness says about it. And btw, Malinowski doesn't have living children.

Do you think historians should be restricted in what they can say about dead people?
Strzelec35 20 | 1,128
11 Feb 2021 #137
do you also think kapuscinski and viktor sucorov are historians? I've seen their books all ver Polish emptik as well...

Is this Polands official pro nazi or nazi excuse theory?

historum.com/threads/what-do-you-think-about-viktor-suvorovs-theory.74451/
gumishu 11 | 5,632
11 Feb 2021 #138
Viktor Suvorov

Victor Suvorov had access to written sources no western historian would ever dream of -even if he wasn't a historian by education - you Russophile - later he just connected the dots
Strzelec35 20 | 1,128
11 Feb 2021 #139
you should read a real history book rather than Viktor

historum.com/threads/what-do-you-think-about-viktor-suvorovs-theory.74451/

please read th responses here. or google Viktor Suvorov debunked. It is a less realistic theory than Poland antagonizing Hitler by not giving Gdańsk corridor and killing ethnic Germans at Bloomberg. This fuy is more credible than Viktor Suvorov:

bitchute.com/video/TI9gdhlFUpv8/

Its funny how Polish pople hate th guy above /\ or th invisible critic but love Viktor Suvorov because of their sick russophobia and jelouse of a greater country.

eteknix.com/google-chrome-end-support-old-amd-intel-cpus/amp/

you should read a real history book rather than Viktor Suvorov or whatever pie propaganda thwt comes out of poland these days:

eteknix.com/google-chrome-end-support-old-amd-intel-cpus/amp/

he actually wrote a book that rfuts your Polish ho Viktor Suvorov:

amazon.com/Stumbling-Colossus-World-Modern-Studies/dp/0700617892

"Effectively refutes the charge--recently rehabilitated by Viktor Suvorov in Icebreaker--that Stalin was secretly planning an offensive war against Hitler during 1941. With his previous book When Titans Clashed and this latest contribution, David Glantz has established firmly his reputation as the preeminent historian of the Soviet Army."--Mark von Hagen, author of Soldiers in the Proletarian Dictatorship
Ironside 50 | 10,910
11 Feb 2021 #140
A court 70 years ago.

So what? I mean what is your argument? You think it was so therefore that is the correct version by the virtue of your want? Eye witness could lie. Couldn't they? Do they remember events from 70 years ago well? Maybe they are dead and all you got is hearsay. You want to play? That is the game that both sides can play.

There's no "version" of the Holocaust

There is. There is a German 'version' and there is a Jewish 'version' and there some other 'versions'. Some are less biased and truthful than others.

Currently there is a one 'version' that is prevalent in the west - the Jewish 'version'.
As usual so called historical truth is a victim of political and financial greed. Nevertheless if a one is so inclined it is possible to find some truthful summaries of those sad times.

The truth is that they only want one approved version of the Holocaust

Hey there is one and only approved version of the Holocaust.
Don't tell me you don't know.
Everybody and sundry are guilty or guilty by association except for those countries that hold too much political, financial and military cloud. Ergo Poland is guilty by definition. No wonder really you should know that reality delph if you are weak they will bully you as they can get away with it.

Can you blame naive people in Poland and their attempts at talking about such trivial unimportant details like the truth, facts and context? Not to mention Polish victims of the death camps.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,245
11 Feb 2021 #141
Poland is no more "guilty by association" than you or I! Poland was a mere pawn of the Nazis, forced into submission. Their record immediately post-War's anothdr matter.
Ironside 50 | 10,910
11 Feb 2021 #142
Poland is no more "guilty by association" than you or I!

You must be unaware. There is not doubt that Poland is guilty one way or the other. Otherwise all that noise in the NYT and here and there wouldn't be on the menu - not to mention an extorsion.

heir record immediately post-War's anothdr matter.

Wow, OK just for you. Post - war Poland was a mere pawn of the Soviets, forced into submission.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,245
11 Feb 2021 #143
I simply meant that certain segments of Polish society were in fact Nazi flunkies, however, this clearly was a minority!
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,957
11 Feb 2021 #144
@Lyzko
Just like criminals (which they became btw, the flunkies that is), prostitutes, communists, fascists, falangists and butterfly collectors

None of them were chosen, elected or even accepted as representatives of the Polish society at large. So whenever this topic in general is taken up, to any Pole... It's like talking about Iglo building on top of skyscrapers in North America 50 years ago... and? Even if somebody was able to do it, why is that relevant or even remotely interesting?
jon357 67 | 16,836
11 Feb 2021 #145
fascists, falangists

Such people exist. The problem is when people pretend they don't.

any Pole

And the danger is when nationalists believe that the behaviour of some reflects on all and try to manipulate the narrative.
Strzelec35 20 | 1,128
11 Feb 2021 #146
"You must be unaware. There is not doubt that Poland is guilty one way or the other. Otherwise all that noise in the NYT and here and there wouldn't be on the menu - not to mention an extorsion."

look up the word pot calling kettle black. its called being a hypocryte how you guys and your govt talk **** on Ukrainians and make movies about how you were victims of them or others or Yalta but look down on other nations or don't care what others went through or don't look at your own ****. all Ukrainians weren't guilty as well so what makes you think Polish were? That's like saying all Germans were nazis or killers how does you pointing fingers at others excuse you guys on the Jewish what you did?
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,957
11 Feb 2021 #147
@jon357
I agree it's a problem if people say they don't exist. Cause they do, blowing their numbers out of proportions however is another problem also as it has more to do with fear rather then the truth.

Depends how you speak and what you say to a nationalist, if you are using broad collective cultural/national terms. Of course they will take it personal, many nationalists have fewer social circles, emotional attachments then normal people have. Lost family members or even sidelined by their own family, finding a collective attachment either through political rallies or soccer matches. Just look at soccer hooligans and their social aspects and connections.

So whenever a person is talking to a nationalist/patriot who has a strong attachment to their nation/country, you bet they will take it personal if you are stirring their view of how his/her society is. Even more so when done in a hostile manner or if it's perceived like an attack... Automatic self-defense mechanisms activate
jon357 67 | 16,836
11 Feb 2021 #148
if you are using broad collective cultural/national terms

That should never be a paradigm restricting academic research.

you bet they will take it personal

They don't get to call the shots. There are no grounds for "taking it personally" within research and historiography.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,957
11 Feb 2021 #149
*facepalm*
There is a difference between publishing anything in a newspaper and publishing scientifically approved content through a scientific journal.

Also whether it's approved at a university level or not.

Content you read on the internet should always be taken with a grain of salt. Especially Wikipedia,

And if you AGAIN think I am for restricting academic research then AGAIN I need to remind you I am not a supporter of it. Take your grudges to any PiS member if that riles you so much
jon357 67 | 16,836
11 Feb 2021 #150
scientifically approved content through a scientific journal.

The work in question was published by academic historians. Nationalistic organisations are abusing the law by sponsoring a lawsuit to attempt to restrict academic freedom.

Content you read on the internet

Is largely irrelevant.

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