Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture"

actually that one is a good target.

yeah !

what culture ? I sense some BS here, and if someone is insulted should bash insulter....if you follow my drift

Its all in your paranoid mind about people making a "big show about being Polish". Look at the title of this forum? Its the POLISHFORUM NOT the PolandForum. This forum is about people of Polish ancestry all over the world. Don't believe it? LOOK at all the topics on the Polishforum. Half of them are about people of Polish ancestry OUTSIDE of Poland. You get it??? You think Poles in Poland are not interested in their relatives and friends outside of Poland???

Also by your twisted logic, if you feel that Polish Americans don't like Poland then by that logic that means Italian Americans don't like Italy, German Americans don't like Germany, etc.

Do you see how childish you sound??

MediaWatch:
Poles in general don't sweat the small stuff and its true Poles in Poland appreciate anyone who appreciates their culture.


Oh please.

NOBODY is talking about people being "TRUE POLES" but YOU!!

You are so childish that you are trying to make mountain out of molehills with this silly notion of "I'm a TRUE POLE and you're not.....nyaaahhh nyaaaahh nyaaaahh nyaaaaahhhh nyaaaahhhh" like something kids on a playground would say to each other.

How old are you? 10??

You are the last person to talk about Poles, Poland, Polonia, since anyone can see you have a deep hatred for Poles everywhere. You have an agenda AGAINST people of Polish ancestry everywhere.

That's why you diminish and bash Polonia and Poles in Poland. You have ZERO credibility on anything pertaining to Poland because of your psychopathic hatred of Poland. I noticed it picked up a lot after I defended Poland against Russia with you.

As for your claim that you are "on the ground in Poland", all I can say is LOL!!!!

Yeah and I got a bridge to sell you.

Scottish. And European, definitely :)

(I definitely believe in the European dream these days - I know Brits, Hungarians, Russians, Japanese, Chinese, Canadians, Americans, French, Poles and more in Poznan - it's wonderful)

hm, I've met few guys from Scotland before but none of them was as anti American as you.

They are quite easy to ridicule, true. But linking your own failures in life to a single party, or person, or organization.. (resorting to letting out your frustration on PF late in your life) just doesn't cut it.. lol, to think, all he leaves behind on this beautiful earth is a few whiny threads on here floating around in cyberspace...

to Wrocław?

Poznan :)

But that's not your ancestry.

What is your ancestry?

Do I have to remind you?

I have talked about many nations and groups of people but when I discussed this one nation with you and had some criticisms for it, you took it SO PERSONALLY.

Even when nobody was really talking about this nation you went out of your way to bring it up saying that you hope nobody criticizes this nation for things it did years ago.

People fight tooth and nail to defend the nation of their ancestry which you were doing in spades not too long ago.

So why don't just be honest here about your ancestry?

wow I haven't known that we have PF diaspora also in Poznan :)
What about Lodz then?


You mean "ethnicity"?
If he was of Russian ancestry he would declare himself as British not Scottish.

Sure.

My ancestry is rather dull - as far back as I've traced (about the start of the 1800's or so), my family comes from one distinct area - North East Scotland. I'm even from there, though it seems some members of my "clan" made it to Poland in the 1600's.

So - ancestry can only be Scottish too. Rather dull and unexciting.


There's a few of us in Poznan :)

Lodz...well, I don't know anyone there, but I was there once for a training course :P

How many brave freedom-fighters were there in PRL? Probably less than 1% of society actually conspired against the regime. Don't tell me you or your parents didn't watch Czterej Pancerni and oterh propaganda shows with bated breath. And when dziadek tried to set the kids straight while listening to RFE, he was scolded by his adult kids: "Nie mąć dzieciakom w głowie!" (Don't put such nonsense into the youngsters' heads).

No, it was the emigration that never gave up, maintained an émigré government that constantly worked to overthrow the regime, and its Skarb Narodowy was an international fund-raising effort supporoted by Polonians world-wide for precisely that purpose.

The state insignias of the Second Republic were transferred by émigré president Ryszard Kaczorowski to Lech Wałęsa. The PRL was ignroed and it went from 2nd to 3rd republic without the 45-year-long stain on the nation's honour called the PRL.

Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture"

Wow three oxymorons in one sentence.

I think Noam could runner a whole semester of the back of that.

Far easier when you couldn't be put into prison for this, wasn't it? Whereas at home it was rather brave even not to sign in to the party.

Anyway, my parents kept illegal papers in their home during the marital state. Kind of risky with my mum pregnant - once two men in long, black jackets knocked at the door and terrified her nearly to death. But fortunately these were just Jehowa witnesses, and I wasn't born in prison. I was also told that "Czterej Pancerni" is a bunch of rubbish, I was taught not-so-appropriate songs ("ja myślałam, że to śmieci, że to gówno drogą leeeeci, a to Sowieci, Sowieci..."). I was far too young to listen to Wolna Europa, but my parents and grandparents did. And they went to Kabaret Tej shows, if you have any idea what this was. I still remember "Mury" being played on TV early after regaining independence and I will never forget, though I was only 7, my parents joy when Wałęsa won the election.

The changes came from within the country, the Solidarity started here, not abroad. What exactly did our government-in-exile do to overthrow the regime?

That' a myth told to little girls, but it wasn't quite that bad. PZPR had some 3 million members. Solidarnosc about 10 million. I was not a member of any communist organization, neither were any of my friends or family. All of them members of either Solidarnosc or NZS. We did not consider ourselves brave on that account.


Why are you limiting the help from abroad to the government-in-exile? How about Polonia, every day people, Polish and foreign? Haven't you heard about million$$$ in currency and goods that Polish underground received from the US, FRG, France etc?


Few homes did not have illegal literature of one kind of another. It had been like that practically since 1945.

Did you parents tell you where that literature was printed? And if some of it was printed in Poland, did they tell you where the printing presses came from? Do you know who paid for the portable radio stations smuggled to Poland before, during and soon after the martial law? Do they knw any persons who actually brought that stuff to Poland?

Solidarity was undoubtedly a great movement and some of its members (not all) displayed a lot of courage, but they were not alone and they had important help from abroad. A lot of things Solidarnosc or NZS did would have been not possible without that help. Even though I don't respect Reagan all that much, he was in fact a critical factor in bringing the USSR down to its knees. So was JP2 and even Gorbachev.

You need to be careful with statements about the part of Poland's history that was witnessed and shaped by people who are still very much around.

Some people suffer from an identity crisis. A small minority here in the States, but unfortunately they show up here on this forum from time to time.


Take offense? Your wasting your energy. Better spend your time getting the money and making the effort to go visit America and see for yourself. If you want to see how Poles live in America go to Chicago.

Yes, I know the money and goods were being sent to Poland, but I'm asking - how was it brave? People abroad did not risk ANYTHING. If they were so brave, why didn't they come back and do something real in the country?

Not belonging to the party could def. cost you your career. Protesting in the streets could cost you your life (Poznan 1956, anyone?).

Jeez, I start to believe that delphi is right about Polonia...

What do you expect they're are American.......I would be surprised if half of them could find Poland on the map.

A fair assessment.

Not many people know about the British diaspora, people who are the last remnant of the empire, who consider themselves British, but have never really lived there and wouldn't like it much if they did. And each one considers themself a British patriot, drinking tea with milk and reading week old copies of the Daily Mail. East Africa and the Middle Eastern 'gulf states' have plenty of such people, with much the same identity crisis.

But by your logic then Scotland is not a country, so you can not be Scottish. Scotland at the moment is a part of the United Kingdom, with some powers to raise taxes on internal issues - just like Galicia was a part of the Austrian Empire.

You underestimate the importance of American Polonia in the fall of communism - in the 80s there were still many more native born Poles and they were a key electorate in close fought states like Michigan, Illinois, New York and Pennsylvania which coincidentally had a high number of electoral college votes. Reagan's threats to the Soviets certainly was a factor in them not going for a full scale red army invasion. In addition there was plenty of food parcels for the strikers, Polish language broadcasts organized by US Polonia, financial support for the unions - since entry visas were difficult at the time what else could they do ?

Reagan was hardly Polonia! You can't use him as an example of "Polonia fighting for Poland", USA was fighting their own war, they couldn't care less about Poland then.


Maybe they shouldn't have left in the first place?

I know they helped, but please don't try and convince me that Polonia freed Poland, cause that's just a blatant lie.

Anyway, I don't mind 3rd generation Poles feeling "Polish" and eating pierogi, as long as they are not trying to tell us what to do with our own country. For example they shouldn't vote in our elections, as they do not bear the consequences.

You know what freed Poland? Neither the people at home, nor the ones overseas. Simple economics freed Poland. The Soviet Union not being able to sustain Poland. That's it. So, the biggest contribution to the communist government in Poland faltering would have to be the failure of planned economies.

So here's to you economics!

well, what we have here a little whinny hen.


eh? As if SU ever sustained Poland ....

Poland is still complaining about fuel prices. Do you think if Poland had to pay market rate with a planned economy, that it would have survived for more than a year?

"Sure it was a planned economy, but it was a Polish planned economy, therefore sustainable..."

ahem.. :)

So, who was providing you with cheap oil and other exports?

It's not exactly the biggest secret that the Soviet Union poured a lot of money into the other Warsaw Pact countries - do you really think they'd have stayed Communist for long if it wasn't for the economic subsidies?

I seem to remember from one of my books that the GDR collapsed partially because the Soviet Union refused to assist anymore economically - because it couldn't afford to. Likewise, they gave up their grip on Poland easily - because they couldn't afford to keep the Red Army presence there.

delphiandomine has managed to make us fight about who did more to free Poland. He may not be a troll, but his thread has had the result of a troll. Division. I feel sorry that he is so upset about those in Polonia.

People in America who have descended from those of Polish ethnicity (which takes into account Poland during the partitions, and Poland as a country) may make mistakes and not know everything about Poland, but if their heart is with Poland, what difference does it make. They mean no harm. They have no desire to upset delphiandomine.

They are here to learn and so maybe the Poles on here can help them to understand what Poland is like now, not when their great-grandparents came to the USA. They may say Busha, and when a Pole tells them the correct word in usage now, they may learn. Maybe it needs to be repeated. But, it should be flattering that the "plastic pole" cares. It has been generations removed since his ancestors arrived, but he still cares. Most people removed a few generations no longer can speak in the ethnic tongue. Will they learn to speak Polish? Probably not. But they may learn a lot about their heritage. How would they do this if the mother country hates them.

My Polish ancestors came to America during the partitions and were listed as Germans. So, no I could never be considered Polish or claim citizenship through them. Oddly enough, my ethnic German grandfather was a Polish citizen in 1928, and although my mother was born in the USA in 1921, I might actually have some basis to claim Polish citizenship but through my German lineage! If I got citizenship, I could move to Poland. I've thought about it. I've been to Poland three times, and love the country. I love the people. So, my message to delphiandomine is to be more accepting. One never knows who could really be Polish and who is not. And why should it matter. It's where the heart is.

Do you think that it was a one way street ?
What about food and other stuff send to SU for peanuts?
Not to mention the Red Army in Poland, did they payed for anything ?

SU could be ideologically stubborn but they weren't stupid

There was massive Polonian support for post-war Poladn. My paternal grandparents actually sent a horse to relatives in Bydgoszcz, and the maternal side was constantyl sending packages to the Lublin region. In Hamtramck there were travel and parcel agencies with big 'PACZKI DO POLSKI' signs in their windows. This never stopped but increased during the Solidarity period. During the 'S' carnival PolAms sent monery and gifts in kind such as typewriters and mimeograph machines as well as stocks of paper to Solidairty. I was personally instrumental in sending a Smith-Corona with a Polish keyboard to Solidarity Mazowsze. In those pre-Internet years, being able to communicate optuside the official regime-cotnrolled system was crucial to the oppositon movement. Following Gen. Jabberwocky's martial-law crackdown brancches of the Pomsot organisation sprouted up across Polonia to help the families of the incarcerated in Poland and assist Solidarity refugees in putting down roots in America. Of course, without the peaceful Solidarity revolution nothing would have changed, but the process was constantly assisted by Polonia, no matter how much you dislike, revile and ridicule it.

Wow, this is a really important argument in this discussion. I'm so impressed.

You don't need to be sorry about anything. Polonia deserves respect for many reasons. Not only because they were always helping Poland where they could but alone the fact that being born in another country and showing that they still care for Poland is more than anyone could expect from them. They could just as well say, hey I'm American (or anyone else) and why would I waste my breath by spending my precious time on PF constantly having to fight people who deny me the right to feel a part Polish or at least to be connected with Poland. They live in a country where the live standard is way higher then in Poland and they still fight for everything Polish and this should be deeply appreciated by the rest of you here.

I'm defending this people even though I personally don't have anything to do with Poland but I can imagine how they feel. Come to this forum, hope to make friends with Poles in Poland and then what they get is nothing but hatred and being ridiculed all the time.

I won't be surprised if one day they'll just give it all up and start living as Americans and nothing else but Americans.