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Warning to British people visiting Poland!! Don't get drunk and smash the place up!


BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #121
you really havent got a clue lef, have you...?
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #122
the quicker Polish people understand that they are being short changed by overseas parasites who have no interest in the future of Poland but wish to feather there own nests the quicker Poland will grow to be a prosperous country.

Again, where are the facts supporting this ? How are they being short changed ? Is that just your opinion ?

"Overseas parasites' sounds like you are just being very emotional rather than looking at the facts of the situation. Where precisely do you live ? What are your connections with Poland ?
Ranj 21 | 948
24 Jul 2007 #123
I don't believe the Polish Voice reflects accurately of what the majority of polish people think

If you bothered to read it, Lef, it's not the Warsaw voice that giving the opinion....it's the results of a survey connected by the European Commission Representation in Poland......I find it intriguing how you believe your voice is the accurate voice for all those in Poland when you don't even live there......hmmmmm!
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #124
Lady in red

lef doesnt answer such questions... despite throwing his toys out of the pram when he thinks his questions are being ignored
lef 11 | 478
24 Jul 2007 #125
you really havent got a clue lef, have you...?

Stop repeating yourself Bubbawoo, try to say something original for a change.
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #126
lef doesnt answer such questions..

I hope he does because if he doesn't it means he is just someone who is very cantankerous with a blinkered approach. Maybe he has supporting information which he can share with us all. Otherwise, we've heard his opinion and I for one cannot agree with him as I don't share it.

I'm still open to be persuaded by debate BUT with all the supporting facts and stats !!

Thanks bubba :)

Thanks for that info Ranj. I like it when people post solid info based on supporting facts.
It helps one to be able to form their own opinions on a subject matter :)

try to say something original for a change.

think you should follow your own advice lef.

any progress on your supporting information then ?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Jul 2007 #127
What I dont understand, maybe Lef can clarify this for me, but how can someone who lives in Aus and will be "investing foreign money" if he decides to go back to live in the land where he was possibly born, could be any different to anyone else investing and buying property over there...hmmmm Im really confused? Maybe someone can help me out, Im having a dumn brunette day :)
lef 11 | 478
24 Jul 2007 #128
"Overseas parasites' sounds like you are just being very emotional rather than looking at the facts of the situation. Where precisely do you live ? What are your connections with Poland ?

It interesting to note that the people who attack my comments are all British, I've probably been to Poland more times than you have had hot dinners, I know that the vast majority of Polish people are just helpless in what is going on in Poland today. I get pretty upset because poles are being exploited especially when it comes to Real Estate.

I point out that I don't live in Poland and I have no intention of cashing in on the spoils, I don't need to as I've doing pretty well here.

What I dont understand, maybe Lef can clarify this for me, but how can someone who lives in Aus and will be "investing foreign money" if he decides to go back to live in the land where he was possibly born, could be any different to anyone else investing and buying property over there...hmmmm Im really confused? Maybe someone can help me out, Im having a dumn brunette day :)

I've got to go, will reply tomorrow.
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #129
well if he was born there, then he's polish..........many polish people who live abroad dream of going back to their homeland. It's something in the heart :(

I wouldn't knock anyone for wanting to do that, no matter who or where they are.......

It's not foreign money if you are going back to live there..........but the Polish Government welcomes foreign investment like any country will do.........it's silly to think a country can survive without foreign investment. Well, maybe in Russia it can :( But I'm not too sure about that either.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #131
Stop repeating yourself Bubbawoo, try to say something original for a change.

think you should follow your own advice lef.

quite

you clearly have no idea about what is happening in poland lef, and the vast majority of your comments are not only way off the mark but ignorant and hypocritical to boot.

it is obvious you have a chip on your shoulder that foreigners are succeeding in a country that you seem to hold some affiliation to whilst you are happy to ignore the hundreds of thousands of poles who have gone abroad to try and better their lives... including yourself it would seem...

as long as you persist with this approach you will get laughed at by those of us who are too polite to tell you youre an idiot and told you are a twat by those of us who have met your type on countless occassions before and really dont give a fuk what you think
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Jul 2007 #132
It's not foreign money if you are going back to live there

My point LIR is that foreigners can usually aford to pay more because of the economic differences, this is a factor, whilst everyone is blaming the British for upping the prices in Poland, what about the 1000s of Polish that work abroad, earn good money and buy properties in Poland are they not adding to this??......
Ranj 21 | 948
24 Jul 2007 #133
I've got to go, will reply tomorrow.

He always runs off before answering....did the same thing with BW a few weeks ago....almost as if he has to take his time to come up with an answer when the answer should just be simple and straight forward.....oh well.....
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #134
It interesting to note that the people who attack my comments are all British,

I am not attacking your comments. All I am asking for is your supporting information i.e. based on facts. If it's not then it is just emotional and you do not talk for the majority of the Polish people :(

I was born in the UK, that's true but I'm entitled to polish citizenship. My genes are 100% Polish,

I've probably been to Poland more times than you have had hot dinners,

I don't disagree with that. It's not relevant to what i was asking about.

I know that the vast majority of Polish people are just helpless in what is going on in Poland today.

Again, I ask where what do you base that on ? Heresay, emotion or solid facts ?

get pretty upset because poles are being exploited especially when it comes to Real Estate.

I can understand that to some degree if that is how you view it. But, give us the supporting information so we can see and identify with that. I'd like to see it to form my own opinion.

To form my opinion from your emotions isn't the right way. If that is what you want us to do , then that is a form of bullying and I know you don't mean to do that.

I point out that I don't live in Poland and I have no intention of cashing in on the spoils,

I never thought you were going to do that. :(

I've got to go, will reply tomorrow.

....look forward to an interesting, healthy debate then :)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #135
yup... thatll be a first from lef
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #136
y point LIR is that foreigners can usually aford to pay more because of the economic differences,

That's a really good point you made Amathyst, I agree :)

what about the 1000s of Polish that work abroad, earn good money and buy properties in Poland are they not adding to this??......

Not sure how to answer that one at the moment. It depends......yes, if they are buying many properties i.e. like buy to let here in the UK.

That has distorted the housing market and does to a degree account for some of the higher prices, especially at first time buyer range. This has had some effect with the first time buyers in the market. But, the percentages for Poland would be very different. It is minimal, a mere drop in the ocean. It really cannot be compared at this moment in time :(
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Jul 2007 #137
That has distorted the housing market and does to a degree account for some of the higher prices, especially at first time buyer range. This has had some effect with the first time buyers in the market. But, the percentages for Poland would be very different. It is minimal, a mere drop in the ocean. It really cannot be compared at this moment in time :(

But none the less it has made a difference, it would be interesting to see if Polish abroard are buying properties for buy to let, its a pension at the end of the day and who can blame them, they were forced to leave the comfort of their own homes / families in search of a better life...and when weighing up the prices of property in the UK, Poland is a much better option, a friend of mine and her b/f have just bought land, they have managed to save this amount of money in the UK in just 12 months.

The English have been doing this for years, my uncle worked out in the Middle East raking it in and paid his mortgage off in 3 years (many moons ago :) )
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #138
But none the less it has made a difference

I can't quite agree on that. Poland has what 40 million people and how many are working abroad..........how many of those working abroad have bought one property in Poland, how many have bought more than one ?

I would suggest, figures are so low that they are meaningless in the way that they could influence the polish housing market at this time.

The UK housing market cannot be compared to a country such as Poland. This is why Foreign Investors are ploughing into the country, small and large. There are so many articles on how Poland is one of the fastest growing countries and that's where 'smart' investors should be investing. This is what will inflate house prices in the short to medium term. Not the Polish people investing in their own country.

I think you will also find Amathyst, that many English small time investors have all booked seats on Lot or wizzair airlines, over the last year or two :)

I'm not debating the ethics or morals about it all. I'm neutral on this :(
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
24 Jul 2007 #139
I dont know the figures, so I cant debate, I just feel for those who have stayed in Poland and are losing out because of it, the same as I feel for people who cant aford to get on the property ladder here in the UK...The gap in poverty in old age will be massive, those that have and those that dont....I know this has always been the case, but I cant help feeling it will be much worse in years to come.
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #140
I don't disagree Amathyst :)

Thing is Poland is a poor country. The UK is not.

Don't forget it was gripped in Communism for a long time so it's wealth did not grow and the Russians didn't do Poland any favours in the economic sense :(

It only recently joined the EU. It will be many, many decades for it to catch up with some of the other countries in the EU. We just cannot compare like for like. in this case. In my opinion. Others may view things differently. This is just my view :)

It's interesting to hear others views. :)

Gotta go for a bit. BBL :)
kneehawk 1 | 47
24 Jul 2007 #141
Having spoken to a number of Polish developers and consultants in the last few months ,they are all of the same opinion.The primary reason for the increases in the cost of flats is the spiralling cost of land and building materials.English and Irish investors have had little effect although this may start to change.the biggest investors are Polish Nationals who invest short term and then sell on prior to completion.this is why the largest Polish developer introduced a fee currently 4900zl to allow people to reassign.Mainstream English and Irish investors are not operating in Poland primarily because the majority of Polish developers will only offer stage payments and a previous lack of interest only mortgage products.I have been informed that the largest property club in the UK and Ireland Inside Track who account for 6% of all Uk sales of new build flats in the UK do not operate in Poland for this reason
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #142
The primary reason for the increases in the cost of flats is the spiralling cost of land and building materials.English and Irish investors have had little effect although this may start to change.the biggest investors are Polish Nationals who invest short term and then sell on prior to completion

this is more or less what i have heard. i am also being told that the shortage of workers is impacting on costs as some construction companies have decided it is a better option in the long run to bring in foreign builders - perhaps not so much that they will do the job to a better but because they will stay and do it from start to finish
davidpeake 14 | 451
24 Jul 2007 #143
we bought a plot of land about 20kms out of Wroclaw about 8 months ago, and are now looking to build on it, the other we looked at the land prices in the area and they have doubled. And yes, there is alot of Polish nationals buying up around us, i think i'm the token foreigner in our area.
kneehawk 1 | 47
24 Jul 2007 #144
A number of the larger developers are also starting to source workers from Belorus,Lithuania and the Ukraine for a lot less money.Curious to see if this has an impact in the longer term for polish building workers like it has in the uk.
davidpeake 14 | 451
24 Jul 2007 #145
trying to get a tradesman here in Wroclaw is quite difficult at the moment.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #146
the large centrum handlowe development in wrzeszcz is bringing in workers from berlin
kneehawk 1 | 47
24 Jul 2007 #147
What is the situation like in Gdynia for finishing Bubbawoo i have a couple of investments there right next to the national park but completion is a while away
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #148
the biggest investors are Polish Nationals who invest short term and then sell on prior to completion.

Would be quite interesting to have a look at this. Is there a source for this information ?
And is it Polish people who actually live and work on Poland that are buying ? Or are they (a) either working away or live and work in another country ?

Yes, obviously Poland has it's problems re labour, that's well been reported for some time and obviously land prices had to rise. Who are the developers actually building new properties for ?

And I wasn't just referring to new build. New build looked on it's own does not reflect the whole property market.

I'm fully conversant with new build and speculation as such. UK has been interesting to say the least !!

I find this subject fascinating :) Thanks for the insight Kneehawk & bubba.

A number of the larger developers are also starting to source workers
from Belorus,Lithuania and the Ukraine for a lot less money

Yes, I understand the Polish Government are authorising three month visas to workers from some other Eastern European Countries. Was in the press recently.

I have been informed that the largest property club in the UK and Ireland Inside Track who account for 6% of all Uk sales of new build flats in the UK do not operate in Poland for this reason

i know of quite a few that do !

And most of them started investing over 2 years ago .
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510
24 Jul 2007 #149
kneehawk

i have had problems finding trades people but am hopefully about to start a relationship with a builder in wejherowo who seems to know his stuff and is reasonably priced. once i see the work he does i will feel more comfortable passing on contact details if you are interested

Is there a source for this information ?

ive looked for an up-to-date source but have been unable to find one... most of it is anecdotal

And is it Polish people who actually live and work on Poland that are buying

despite what people will tell you there are relatively wealthy poles all over

Who are the developers actually building new properties for ?

see above

New build looked on it's own does not reflect the whole property market.

true... but it seems that most of the movement is in this area

Thanks for the insight Kneehawk & bubba.

<smile>
Lady in red
24 Jul 2007 #150
ive looked for an up-to-date source but have been unable to find one... most of it is anecdotal

Ok, thanks :) I'll do some research on it.....

despite what people will tell you there are relatively wealthy poles all over

Yes. I'm sure. What percentage though <grin> It's Ok I'm going to google :)

Yes, Poland is going down a similar route to the UK, new build apartments at any price !!

Seen it all b4. I'm going to look for my older property. I have nothing against new build. :)


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