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Poles say a big YES to our European Union


delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
18 Aug 2017 #31
The latest CBOS figures

The fact that it's from CBOS is highly significant.
kondzior 10 | 1,019
18 Aug 2017 #32
Poles say yes to European Union because Poles do know, that we have a good government, wich will not let any muslims in. So we don't have to worry about something like the recent terrorist attack in Barcelona, is going to happen on our soil.
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
18 Aug 2017 #33
wich will not let any muslims in

Looks like you've never been to Warsaw.

To repeat, 88% of Poles support the EU.
Crow 139 | 8,566
18 Aug 2017 #34
After all, why Poles wouldn`t say big YES to European Union. Most Poles don`t feel Polish state, don`t feel strength of it, don`t have confidence in it. But, its not only Polish problem. Most Slavs live like this. Practically, in agony.
kondzior 10 | 1,019
19 Aug 2017 #35
Looks like you've never been to Warsaw.

Terrible place, I avoid it like the plague.
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Aug 2017 #36
After all, why Poles wouldn`t say big YES to European Union

Quite. Huge subsidies that have transformed the country, a bulwark against Russia, the opporutnity to live, work and study around Europe and a check on nationalism.
Crow 139 | 8,566
19 Aug 2017 #37
@jon357

Its hard to argue with you on this one. But still, what you say is, among else, exact thinking of Anglo about Poland and Poles. When you give, you give for your own calculations. What you don`t say openly is that you assimilate Poles, step by step. See, you using your opportunity because Poles are, as I said, as most Slavs, in agony. Now. So you invest to secure that development in future, too.
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
19 Aug 2017 #38
When you give, you give for your own calculations

It's neither giving nor taking, Crowie. It's sharing.

assimilate

You prefer isolation?

Poles are, as I said, as most Slavs, in agony

No. Just no.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,550
20 Aug 2017 #39
Yes most poles do want to stay in the eu. However if retaining eu membership is contingent on accepting migrants and living with terrorism those numbers will drop sharply. Several polls have shown that poles overwhelming don't want migrants from m.e and africa. Even the question of containing Ukrainian migration poles are split roughly half and half.

Also poles have stated they'd rather pay the fines than take in migrants from way different cultures and religions.

Accoridng to this cbos poll 75% of poles don't want migrants from me and africa

cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2017/K_044_17.PDF
This article kind of explains the situation and history a bit mofe
politico.eu/article/politics-nationalism-and-religion-explain-why-poland-doesnt-want-refugees/amp/
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
20 Aug 2017 #40
So far we're still members, and with an exceptionally high level of support. There will obviously be demographic changes over the next few years - nowhere is a fortress, however people do get used to change with time.
TheOther 6 | 3,821
20 Aug 2017 #41
Also poles have stated they'd rather pay the fines than take in migrants from way different cultures and religions.

Poland is part of the Schengen Area. If a Spanish-Moroccan, French-Algerian or German-Turk decides to settle in Poland, nobody can prevent that. Different cultures and religions are a legal non-issue in Europe as long as these people have citizenship of an EU member state.
mafketis 23 | 8,360
20 Aug 2017 #42
If a Spanish-Moroccan, French-Algerian or German-Turk decides to settle in Poland, nobody can prevent that.

Well isn't Poland lucky about that? How long before Poland gets its own 'crazy muslim religous fanatic drives a truck into a crowd' event?
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Aug 2017 #43
It's neither giving nor taking, Crowie. It's sharing.

Oh, sure.

You prefer isolation?

No. Just its clear that Poland isolated itself from rest of the Visegrad Group, from other Slavic countries, from majority of Poles in Poland, while opening itself to obedience and assimilation by western Europeans.

No. Just no.

Yes, just yes. Ask them. All Slavic Poles realize what`s going on but live like f****** automatons. In agony. Essentially.
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
20 Aug 2017 #44
No. Just its clear that Poland isolated itself from rest of the Visegrad Group

Probably very wisely, since there's no real reason or such a bloc - there are already links between the various armies within NATO in that region, and remember Crowie, Poland always faces west rather than east.

Different cultures and religions are a legal non-issue in Europe as long as these people have citizenship of an EU member state.

Of course. Europe is a complex place, and our EU unites people of so many heritages. This is something that Poles have taken huge advantages of while migrating within Europe post-2004, especially to Britain and Ireland.
TheOther 6 | 3,821
20 Aug 2017 #45
Well isn't Poland lucky about that?

There's only one way to keep other EU citizens out of Poland: Poland has to leave the EU. Doesn't look as if the Poles are interested in such an endeavor.
gumishu 11 | 5,155
20 Aug 2017 #46
Poland has to leave the EU.

fortunately the language barrier and relatively low wages keep German Turks, French Algerians and Spanish Moroccans out of Poland - we do not have much to fear about in the near future in this area
TheOther 6 | 3,821
20 Aug 2017 #47
fortunately the language barrier and relatively low wages keep German Turks, French Algerians and Spanish Moroccans out of Poland

The language isn't a problem. German and French are bloody difficult languages, too, but that didn't prevent people from moving there. Keeping wages low to prevent a certain group of EU citizens from moving to Poland would be a unique approach. I'm quite sure though that the Poles won't like that idea...
gumishu 11 | 5,155
20 Aug 2017 #48
Keeping wages low to prevent a certain group of EU citizens from moving to Poland would be a unique approach.

I haven't said we need to artificially keep the wages down - the realistic assesment is that Polish wages are 3-4 times lower than those in Germany and the UK, probably France too - it will not change overnight and it will not probably change drastically in the coming 4-5 years

as for the language barrier - I don't know French - but I know basic German and I can tell it is much simpler than Polish - I guess you don't know Polish that well The Other - Polish has very steep learning curve for non-Slavic people - coupled with low wages it will be a barrier enough in the foreseeable future -
TheOther 6 | 3,821
20 Aug 2017 #49
I haven't said we need to artificially keep the wages down

Yes, I understood that. What I was trying to say is that neither language nor wage levels will keep EU citizens - Christian, Muslim or otherwise - out on the long run. No matter what one thinks about the current migrant problem or religion in general, in the end Poland will have to choose. It's either being part of the EU and accepting the influx of other cultures, or leave.
mafketis 23 | 8,360
20 Aug 2017 #50
Poland will have to choose. It's either being part of the EU and accepting the influx of other cultures

Well that's already going on. It is presently impossible to walk around a large Polish city (at least PoznaƄ where I live) for more than 5 or 10 minutes without seeing people who are visibly not Polish but who appear to be living here.

Being okay with that is a very far road away from letting Angela frickin' Merkel determine Polish migration policy and accepting her second hand refugees.
Ironside 49 | 10,282
20 Aug 2017 #51
accepting the influx of other cultu

What do you mean by that? Stop talking in damn slogans, do me a solid her and that straight what exactly do you mean by that?

people who are visibly not Polish but who appear to be living here.

Looking like damn Islamism - I sure hope it is not the case.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,550
20 Aug 2017 #52
@TheOther

True. But very very few of those types of people come to poland. If they do they're probably educated rather well heeled and wordly. They're probably coming to study, invest, work, etc. Good for them - They're not like most of the me migrants that have flooded Europe the past few years. They're not coming to live in a shabby apartment with a soccer team of kids and living off the state and just collecting their 400 euros free food free housing free free free because in poland they'll get 80 euros so they don't starve to death and that's it. They gotta work if they want the trappings of a half decent existence just like everyone else. We don't give handouts like Germany. Even Denmark cut their generous welfare towards migrants so thousands of em just packed up and left either to Germany in sweden. Plus I have faith in our polish anti terrorism and immigration forces. Im not too concerned about people like that. If they're hard working and a net benefit to the country idc where they come from whether its Timbuktu or Mosul or Madagascar. Im more concerned about a deluge of unskilled uneducated migrants who don't want to work or assimilate terrorising poland and creating riots no go zones states of emergency terrorist acts etc making life hell for people including poles Ukrainians and who came from the 3rd world settled down and are a net benefit to poland.

@jon357
In poland it will occur very slowly and very cautiously because we don't want to have the issues the west has seen due to recent mass migration from the 3rd world. Poles are very very cautious about this and I doubt well see any less terrorism and other issues in the future. When we hear western elites say terrorism is a part of life in Europe now we refuse to accept such a defeatist attitude and cowardice. Also many of the Muslims are imposing their views and say things like crosses offend them and stupid western cucks are giving into that and taking crosses down from churches. Even women from school girls to adults are advised against wearing skirts so they're not assaulted or raped in areas where there is a refugee center nearby. Even in terms of economics the migrants have been a huge drain because the terror has greatly harmed tourism and also all the handouts like housing and welfare payments. Migrants are being housed in 4 star hotels while poor citizens and seniors suffer despite being in the country their whole lives. Some are forced to move out of their apartments to make way for migrants. This all frightens poles as well as many several other countries in europe esp eastern central n some parts of the balkans

We don't want that in poland. Were finally just now getting on our feet after nearly 100 years of war and communism and before ww1 we weren't even on the map for almost 2 centuries. We've had many different nations try to erode our culture and people but we always survived and well always resist such attempts. That's why our anthem is 'Poland is not yet lost.' it may be hard for you to understand this but this is how poles feel and we don't want our culture traditions or religion to be replaced or eroded. We don't want to take the risk and have it backfire on us like it has in the west. Were happy with the way things are going and were looking to develop our country in other ways. We've also chose a different way to deal with the poles who have migrated and low birth rates. We've already done our fair share of helping migrants any way. We've already accepted over a million Ukrainians and are open to migrants from Belarus Georgia even Chechnya but we are cautious about accepting thousands of people from m.e. and north africa. They may be accepted after vetting depending on an assessment of immigration and security but that's the call of those departments and the instructions their higher ups gave them. Poles in general prefer to be a homogenous country and that is our right as it is our country. There have been some 4 Islamic attacks within roughly this past week alone - dozens dead and hundreds injured when combining Spain Germany Finland and russia. Poland doesn't want to deal with that stuff. Why is it that we don't have any such issues with the Asians west Europeans Ukrainians Georgians Indians even west Africans in poland? They aren't massacring fellow Europeans assaulting women and draining the economy.
Crow 139 | 8,566
20 Aug 2017 #53
and remember Crowie, Poland always faces west rather than east.

First time when Poles learned about western Europeans it undoubtedly came as info via Serbs (ie via those Sarmats that lived stretched along the Danube River and on the Baltic-Adriatic-Balkan line and who were considered to be old core and backbone of our civilization, overlord-parental tribes to other, more distant tribes). And Poles were not fascinated by the western Europeans. No, they resisted and no matter they made few compromises, they still resist. They are in agony but, they resist, at least in their hearts.

So, don`t underestimate Poles. Dragon sleeps in them.
TheOther 6 | 3,821
20 Aug 2017 #54
What do you mean by that?

I thought I made myself clear enough...
Poland cannot prevent anyone from the Middle East, Africa or Asia (no matter what religion or skin color) from settling in the country as long as they are citizens of an EU member state that signed the Schengen Treaty. Nationalists are kidding themselves if they think that Poland will be able to preserve its homogeneous society under these circumstances.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
20 Aug 2017 #55
Poland will be able to preserve its homogeneous society

The truth is that the only thing that preserved the homogeneous society for 44 years was the fact that no-one really wanted to move to Poland in the first place.
Bieganski 17 | 901
20 Aug 2017 #56
for 44 years was the fact that no-one really wanted to move to Poland in the first place.

The fact is that communist rule which lasted 44 years meant no-one really could move to Poland and few could leave.

Totalitarianism is a hallmark of communism.
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
20 Aug 2017 #57
the only thing that

Basically an artificial situation. As Poland gradually opens up, we'll never see a return to this.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
20 Aug 2017 #58
The fact is that communist rule which lasted 44 years meant no-one really could move to Poland and few could leave.

Poor show, Bieganski. There's a member of PF that moved to Poland then, for a start.

As for "Few could leave", clearly you aren't aware of just how many left. Over 250,000 left in a 4 year period in the late 1950's for a start, and similar numbers left in the early 1970's. Stick to Canada, my friend.
Ironside 49 | 10,282
20 Aug 2017 #59
Poland cannot prevent anyone

Sure thing that Poland can.

its homogeneous society under these circumstances.@ TheOther

Stop this jealous mantra with homogeneous society. Poland is not a homogeneous society is clearly divided with different minorities in the pot. The fact that doesn't have tones of Africans, Arabs and what have you is due to history. There is no reason to rapidly change it all just because some globalists and enemies of the western and European civilization dreamed up another utopia. That includes bringing in millions of people from different countries into white, European, C, O or P countries.

How about Europeans take over south African or some Asian country eh?
Anyway anyone I welcome to settle as long a they take Polish values, religion and history as their own. Simple.
OP jon357 63 | 15,214
20 Aug 2017 #60
Over 250,000 left in a 4 year period in the late 1950's for a start

Some legally, some less so. Nowadays of course Poland has freedom of movement, which is working very well indeed for the country.

@DirkDiggler, if you want people to read what you write (I didn't and doubt others did) try to be more concise, not a great long stream of consciousness, not even divided into paragraphs. It's a basic courtesy. 100 words is usually enough to say anything.


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