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Poles say a big YES to our European Union


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #91
@jon357

Well that's up to polish citizens and their elected officials along with our immigration and security services to decide. If we don't want someone to come in its our right as a sovereign nation.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #92
Well that's up to polish citizens

Yes, and 88% of us support EU membership.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #93
@jon357

Agreed. Cbos also shows 75% don't support taking in migrants from me and africa. That's their right to decide who to let in and not. Its our country and no one from thousands of kilometers away can tell us what our immigration policy should and shouldn't be. There's many other facets of eu membership other than just migration. This just happens to be one that most poles don't agree with eu policy. It doesn't mean they want to leave the eu over it though necessarily
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #94
That's their right to decide who to let in and not.

As it's the EU's right to expect that all members either fully take part or lose out on the full benefits of membership.

Interesting that the usual suspects are trying to draw the thread around to their favourite subject - hatred and fear of particular groups in society.

The changes they fear will happen anyway - it would be a shame if Poland is less prepared than other states when it inevitably comes.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #95
@jon357

Like I said there's other aspects of eu membership aside from a country's migration policy - defense spending, keeping a lid on corruption, etc. Besides we've done our part anyway with accepting 1 mil Ukrainians. Thatd be like saying we should kick every country out of NATO that doesn't immediately spend at least 2% of GDP. Stupid right?

If eu wants to kick poland out thatd up to them and poland. For now no ones threatening to kick poland out. They threatened to suspend Poland's voting rights which wouldn't happen any way because Hungary and v4 have our back. However I don't recall any eu politician saying poland Hungary czechy etc are going to get kicked out. Fined yes but no one said anything about getting kicked out.

Usual suspects? Three quarters of poland have voiced their opinion. They don't want middle eastern or African migrants. And if you're pointing the finger at me do it instead of beating around them bush. I don't hate any group or any people. I specifically said I welcome anyone that is a net benefit to the country. I don't see how masses of unskilled uneducated migrants from the 3rd world creating no go zones (sez's) states of emergency massive riots sharia patrols and terror are good for a country. Educated smart hard working and worldly people don't take part in such things but most the migrants that have come don't fit into this category

Again we didn't invite these people. Merkel did. Poland never had any African or Asian or any other colonies. We were never consulted on this. Besides we've done more than our fair share by taking in 1 mil ukranian migrants and refugees. That's plenty for a country of around 40 mil.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #96
here's other aspects of eu membership aside from

Most aspects are aside from that, though on this forum a few people mention little else.

Thatd be like saying we should kick every country out of NATO that doesn't immediately spend at least 2% of GDP. Stupid right?

Didn't Trump suggest that. Certainly if it's a rule there has to be a way of enforcing that rule - NATO like the EU is about shared goals and resources. If one member of a team doesn't want to play, should the rest of the team just let them sit in the corner sulking and grousing?

no go zones

Yet another of the myths that get a certain type of person all worked up.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #97
Also they can talk tough but if they kick poland out the billions of euros they invested will go bye bye. They know this esp the Germans so they can only push poland so far.

New partnerships and strategic alliances are made and broken daily. And China's looking pretty damn good now. Poland actually signed a rather significant deal with them recently.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #98
the billions of euros they invested

Indeed, hence the pvssyfooting around so far.

the Germans

It's an important market for them, plus a source of raw materials and processed foods.

Poland actually signed a rather significant deal with them recently.

Everyone has. Good that Poland has. In some ways, anyway.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #99
@jon357

Exactly and Germany can push poland only so far before poland looks elsewhere for partners. I see this type of thing everyday in jnternational business. Billions in deals are made and lost everyday. No different with poland. There's hundreds of other partners they can have. Poland recently even found a huge sugar importer in Israel which they didn't have before.

Except the eu isn't a soccer team. Furthermore its not just one member who's sulking and if a player doesn't want to be a striker hell be defense. Also poland isn't alone. Britain left eu and immigration was among one of the reasons but also economics and loss of sovereignty. The v4 is against certain eu policies. Even Austria and Denmark have now enacted policies to curb migrstion. Eu isn't a one size fits all club. Its a gathering of some 2 dozen different countries each coming with their own problems agendas politics opinions etc. Of course people aren't going to agree 100% of the time. Migration is just one of the many things being debated its just one of the more vocal debates now.

No ones threatened to kick poland out. Idk where you came up with that. Even the potential 2 bill fine was an option that was discussed months ago. If anything the eu lately seems to be more concerned with pis handling of the judiciary than migrants, for now anyway. If poles decide to leave the eu, pay a fine or do whatever its up to them. One thing is clear though poles don't want certain types of migration as proven by CBOS and that's their right as a sovereign nation.

Also no go zones = special urban zones or sez in French. Definitely not a myth. There's several hundred of them. I use sez and no go interchangeably because they describe the same thing - Muslim majority high crime high unemployment areas where the cops and paramedics are scared to go into. Places that get totally destroyed and torched whenever the Muslims riot like during the pro Palestine demonstrations. France has been under a state of emergency for over 2 years and that's a fact.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #100
before poland looks elsewhere for partners

Being right next to such a massive economy, it would be odd to look elsewhere. In any case, a significant part of Poland's production is under German ownership.

Britain left eu

It hasn't left yet, and right now anything could happen. They've just agreed that free movement will continue.

No ones threatened to kick poland out. Idk where you came up with that

Nor do I, since I didn't 'come up with it'. I do wish you'd stop trying to put words in people's mouths.

no go zones = special urban zone

These are not 'no go zones', they're Urban Priority Areas, a different animal.
mafketis 24 | 8,926
21 Aug 2017 #101
These are not 'no go zones', they're Urban Priority Areas

And how did they get that way?
gumishu 11 | 5,493
21 Aug 2017 #102
Urban Priority Areas

you should love the newspeak
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #103
Very litle to do with Polish Citizens' support for the EU. Perhaps PF should get rid of all the individual threads and rename itself Islamophobia Forum...

And how did they get that way?

Poverty, Maf.

the newspeak

The term originates with the Church - perhaps you should call it 'churchspeak', instead of jerking your permanently bitter knee at everything that is a positive step to help the marginalised...
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #104
@jon357

Same thing. No go zone special zone Muslim zone malmo molenbeek whatever... Idc what the correct pc term is. Its where terrorism violence crime and poverty breed. The residents know who the radicals criminals and extremists are but refuse to give them up. Then you have Saudis refusing to take in Syrians but gladly donate 200 mil to establish wahabi salafi mosques in Europe. Three quarters of poles don't want em in poland. If eu wants poland to stay and poland wants to stay in eu they'll have to reach a compromise. Same with the other countries that are vehemently against eu forcing unknown unvetted migrants within their sovereign borders.

If you want to look at hatred jon look at what's happened in Europe last week. 4 attacks in 4 different countries. Even moderate Muslims spit on your lgbt rights women's rights freedom of religion freedom of speech. Look what happened in France when a satirist drew a cartoon. Did Christians kill people because some 'artist' made a virgin Mary out of dung or a Jesus cross out of chocolate and call it sweet Jesus? No. It may offend us but we don't go killing people and about praise Jesus while were doing it. Poland has every right to protect itself against such hatred and secure its residents including the over 1 million migrants it took in.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #105
malmo molenbeek

This myth has been debunked so many times.

And has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the high levels of support that Poland has for EU membership.

Muslims

You really are obsessed.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #106
@jon357

You're right. 88% Poles wanting to be in eu and three quarter of poles rejecting immigration from me and africa are two different things. One isnt dependent on the other. That's why poland and v4 are still in eu with no plans to leave or be kicked out just as they have no plans to accept massive amounts of unvetted unskilled 3rd world migrants into their sovereign borders.

Last time I checked there were some two hundred special urban zones in France. Same characteristics as no go zones. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #107
You're right. 88% Poles wanting to be in eu

Which is the point of the thread. Not some monomania about certain groups and projection by the culturally feeble.

Same characteristics as no go zones

No - as I told you, that right-wing myth was debunked long long ago.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #108
@jon357

Exactly then why are you saying that poland doesn't deserve to be in the eu according to post #95?

You just don't like the fact that 3/4 of poles don't want middle eastern migrants or africans and there's not much you can do about that. Well sorry buddy poland is going to stay that way for the foreseeable future. I know its hard for you to understand polish culture and traditions since your not polish but you ought to respect the fact that the majority of Poland's citizens have decided not to let in migrants from the m.e and africa. It is polish peoples country after all. Our laws our rules our traditions. The majority has spoken well stay in the eu but we don't want 3rd world migration. Till the eu challenges our membership theres not much they can do. Till then the list of countries who also don't want 3rd world migrants causing terror attacks assaulting women and draining the economy will grow. Especially as Islamic terr9r attacks and other issues related to migration continue.

No gos are same as special urban zones. Call em whatever you want the characteristics are the same. Or did the French government make up sezs too? High crime high rates, issues with terrorism, high unemployment, problems with policing, mostly islamic.. Need i say more? They're called 'sensitive' urban zones for a reason.. And my mistake theres over 700 in France not just a few hundred.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #109
Exactly then why are you saying that poland doesn't deserve to be in the eu according to post #95?

There you go again - putting words into peoples mouths, seeing things that aren't there. Silly really, it doesn't work.

poles

88% of Polish Citizens support the EU.

No gos are same as special urban zones.

No. There are no 'no-go' areas in Europe. That silly right-wing myth was debunked long long ago. You've been told already, but evidently prefer to perpetuate myths.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #110
No gos fact or fiction? Call it whatever name you want Gatestone institute which is far more qualified and has conducted far more research than you says FACT

gatestoneinstitute.org/5128/france-no-go-zones

Sure all the high crime high unemployment sharia patrol extremist laden areas are a figment of the imagination. Sensitive zone Muslim ghetto no go.. Same thing.. If were gonna be pc though well call it sensitive zone to not upset the snowflakes.

I'm not arguing with you that 88% of poles support eu membership. Are you retarded that you need to keep repeating yourself? According to the same pollsters cbos we poles (meaning not you) 75% of us don't want migrants from Africa and middle east.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #111
'All members either fully take part or lose out on full benefits of eu membership' how is that putting words in your mouth?

Sorry buddy but at the end of the day 3/4 of poles don't want middle east of African migrants just as 88% of poles want to remain in eu. Mind boggling for you isn't it? Too bad libs are so naive to think it's always my way or the highway and that everything is so cut and dry. We can easily remain in the eu whilst not accepting middle east and African migrants. We've done it yesterday are doing it today and will do it tomorrow. If they fine us 2 bil, so be it. 200 zloty is a small price to pay for security. Maybe if you could tell the Muslim ummah to stop throwing gays off roofs, assaulting and raping women, and killing tens of thousands of people all around the world including 4 attacks just last week in Europe than maybe just maybe poles would accept them. Were not the ones killing people and causing mayhem they are.
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #112
Gatestone institute

A very dodgy source for anything. Basically extreme propaganda, long ago discredited.

I'm not arguing with you that 88% of poles support eu membership

Good.

Are you retarded

There you go again. I suppose you've got plenty of 'leisuretime' to sit home and think bons mots like that up.

Those who ex-President Sarkozy described as "people who have to get up early" tend to focus on more than one issue.
mafketis 24 | 8,926
21 Aug 2017 #113
If the EU ca

88% of Polish Citizens support the EU.

Honestly, how are you different from Polonius? You just want people to endlessly repeat the results of one contextless poll without noticing any other issues?
OP jon357 63 | 15,378
21 Aug 2017 #114
without noticing any other issues?

It seems to be one issue that preoccupies several people here.
mafketis 24 | 8,926
21 Aug 2017 #115
Because we never get real, convincing answers, just pre-cooked boilerplate. If you actually had convincing arguments you'd use them. You don't so you just dismiss claims and hand wave real concerns away and ignore the worst results of your preferred policies.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,261
21 Aug 2017 #116
Because we never get real, convincing answers

I'm not sure there is a convincing answer. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding, yet it's clear that there are some major issues (particularly regarding child protection and radicalisation) that middle class social workers are unable to deal with.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,607
21 Aug 2017 #117
Usually people with mental issues repeat themselves so it was an honest question.

Unfortunate you're too naive to see what's going on in europe. I wonder how the families of last weeks 4 islamic attacks feel. Also gates tone amongst other sources is quoting the 2200 page report suburbs of the republic. Their name and their founder is very well known and their publications assist conservative policy makers decisions.

Once you're a polish citizen you can join the 25% who are either uncertain or welcome migrants into poland. Even when that day comes there's 3x as many of us who don't want poland to turn into a place like France with 2 years of state of emergency. Sorry this is Poland not Belgium not Germany not France and not the uk. We have a different set of traditions and customs. We place emphasis on different things. We are slavs and the v4 along with now Austria are starting to realize the folly of eus open migrstion scheme. There's certain things we like about eu membership as most poles are for it. However we are against forced migration.

And yes I took the day off to watch the solar eclipse. What's your excuse?

Sarkozy was also a backstabbing pr!ck who took gaddafis money than helped kill him. I use to not like macron but after a few of his comments he's not all that bad. I see a light at the end of the tunnel with him. Unfortunately there's not much he can do about the hundreds of sensitive zones populated mainly by Muslims with high crime terrorism poverty unemployment and all other sorts of issues the migrants exacerbated. Trucks can't even go through Calais without being attacked. Shame the brits had to foot a bill to erect a barrier to help truckers on French soil.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,045
21 Aug 2017 #118
with high crime terrorism poverty unemployment and all other sorts of issues the migrants exacerbated.

Thats exactly what Jon wants to happen to Poland, Just think he won't have to travel far to carry out his humanitarian work he will have it on the doorstep.
mafketis 24 | 8,926
21 Aug 2017 #119
I'm not sure there is a convincing answer.

That's the problem, Poland has enough on its plate without jumping into risky unknown territory

there are some major issues

This. If France, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands etc have failed to deal with this, what is Poland supposed to do? Just happily join the club?
gumishu 11 | 5,493
21 Aug 2017 #120
I use to not like macron but after a few of his comments he's not all that bad.

Macron actually undermines the most important EU fundaments in his rhetoric, namely the free flow of people and capital within the EU


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