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Russian criticism of Poland - Soviet war memorial removal

Korvinus 1 | 552
25 May 2023 #181
What bad stuff?

People in Central-Eastern Europe tried numerous time to escape the clutches of the Soviet Union. Berlin Uprising 1954, Hungary and Poland 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, again Poland in 1980-81. It was always stopped, often by Soviet tanks or a threat of invasion. Long before 80s there was no love for Soviet Union here. After all, we knew them better than anyone.

Btw, even Tito knew what piece of sh*it Stalin was and what a shi*thole his Soviet Union was. That's why he quickly distanced himself from SU after WW2 and never looked back.

Regardless of the model of government, in Russia it always took a monstrous form. Tsarist autocracy was a worse form of absolutism than in the West, Russian Soviet communism was worse than say, a German revolution could have came up with had it succeeded. Or what the Scandinavians did in their corner of the world. Russians efforts to introduce democracy ended with Putin's dictatorship. Their version of free market reforms led to the oligarchic hellhole we know today.

Russia is where good ideas come to mutate, become grotesque and painfully die.
Lyzko 41 | 8,871
25 May 2023 #182
Russia has been a menace for several decades now! Putin is merely the most extreme and dangerous manifestation of a post-Communist society, beginning roughly in the late '90's going forward.

Ukraine, Crimea, Chechnia etc. are all danger signals that the Moscow aka the Kremlin cannot be trusted.

Many years ago, Soviet expert George Kennan wrote a definitive book on the Russian Revolution up through the death of Stalin and later developments with the advent of the Cold War.

Sadly, his hopes for the openness between East and West which eventually morphed into Glasnost, remain quaint dreams which seemed to have dashed on the rocks of dissolusionment with democracy.

What the future holds, I cannot say. But I remain optimistic.
Novichok 4 | 7,139
25 May 2023 #183
People in Central-Eastern Europe tried numerous times to escape the clutches of the Soviet Union.

I didn't feel any Soviet clutches. Those belonged to their Polish collaborators.

Regardless of who operated the clutches, Western "democracies" were deliriously happy that we were in them.

If the Soviets and their collaborators let the world know that on Day X those clutches will be released, Western "democracies" would beg them not to do it or would start building the tallest and the meanest wall ever a year earlier.

Nobody in the West wants 100 million Eastern Europeans. They put up with you now only because the numbers are still low and tolerable.

Berlin Uprising 1954, Hungary and Poland 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968,

The USSR was a lot kinder there than the US was in K, V, I, and A. In their defense, these events were within the USSR's buffer zone. Some sh*ithole that is 10,000 miles away is not a buffer zone. It's a sh*it hole that is 10,000 miles away.
Korvinus 1 | 552
27 May 2023 #184
For the last time, dummy, neither West Germany nor Turkey had nukes. Soviet Union could easily attack and conquer them, gaining control over the heart of Europe and their prized Black Sea straits. Why SU didn't do it? Because West Germany and Turkey were NATO allies and such an attack would drag US and UK into the war.

Without NATO military might of the USA would only protect the USA. Thanks to the alliance it protected large parts of Europe and Asia Minor too.
marion kanawha 2 | 57
28 May 2023 #185
Stopping Napoleon and Hitler are convent excuses given to Russia to legitimize her horrendous actions throughout history. Russia deserved everything she got!
Russia is what's called a "Judas Nation". Throughout history Russia has been a traitorous ally whether allied to the "good guys" or the "bad guys". !!!

In stopping Napoleon and Hitler Russia was a "back stabbing" traitor to her ally. This is how she operates through history.

Even before the Napoleonic Era Russia "back stabbed" . During the Seven Years War a new autocrat plops on the Russian throne and switches sides and becomes an ally of Freddy "the Great". Little did Russia know that this would give Frederick breathing space and give him the opportunity to become the German "super hero". And unknowingly help fertilize the growth of Imperial and Nazi Germany.

But wait! Let's go back a hundred years to the Deluge. Poland's problems with the Cossacks allowed Russia to invade the Commonwealth. Poland was holding her own but having a tough time. Then Sweden invaded and threatened Russia so Russia signs an armistice with Poland and becomes an "ally" to combat Sweden. Poland, exhausted, agrees. When the Swedish threat is removed Russia went back to war with Poland. What a great "ally".

Concerning Napoleon, Russia and France were ALLIES ! Parts of Galicia went to the Warsaw Duchy but Napoleon promised Austria that Warsaw would not become a Commonwealth again. But Russia didn't like this and started to make plans (1811) to attack Warsaw and Danzig.

As an ally of France, Russia was to help blockade Great Britain and stop trading with her. Czr Alexander realized he needed to trade because his economy was in shambles.

We all know how the Soviets got "back stabbed" by their buddy Adolf. Stalin didn't care about the Nazis. He just wanted to carve up Poland. Stalin brought down misery upon his own people. In the post-WW I revolutions, Russia moved towards communism. In Germany the revolution butchered the communists. You have to be an idiot to know they couldn't work together.

So now the Soviets are part of the allies. How come they didn't invade Japanese territory as an ally? Are you going to say it's because Japan got an @ss-whipping in a border war? The Soviets still should have attacked. Didn't the Allies land at Normandy to help the Soviet's Eastern offenses? Instead Russia played save. Now Russia claims all the glory for the problems they begged to be brought upon their heads. That what a "Judas Nation" ally does. Just hog the glory.

And since 1945 Russia has been a cancer on the entire world.
Barney 15 | 1,568
28 May 2023 #186
Stopping Napoleon and Hitler are convent excuses given to Russia

Well they did stop them and occupied Paris and Berlin 😊

Perhaps during the deluge Poland should picked better allies.

I would learn a bit of history if I were you cos that polemic and the previous one are ahistorical nonsense.
jon357 72 | 21,201
28 May 2023 #187
occupied Paris

It was actually Prussia, Austria and r*SSia who briefly occupied Paris. And of course they'd have been pushed back beyond the Urals in WWII were it not for the British convoys and the American lend-lease.

r*SSia's military strategies (and human rights records) haven't evolved much since WWII. Most other developed societies have progressed. They have remained violent and autocratic. Imagine an independence referendum like the one Scotland had happening in one of the constituent republics of the r*SSian 'Federation'. As I recall, even their own r*SSian opposition leader was poisoned with novichok and is currently locked up in jail.

Violent gangster capitalism, with obscenely wealthy oligarchs plundering the country while millions don't have running water or an inside toilet.
pawian 204 | 21,119
3 Jun 2023 #188
Russian Soviet communism was worse than

Nazism. Or at least the same.
That is why we have to pull down all memorials to Soviet criminals who first attacked Poland in alliance with Nazis and then "liberated" it only to enslave it into another totalitarian system.

Can we see any memorials to Nazi criminals in Poland?? No. So, we all know the golden rule of a perfect balance in nature, don`t we?
Novichok 4 | 7,139
4 Jun 2023 #189
only to enslave it into another totalitarian system.

That's weird...I lived in Warsaw till 1966. Never felt enslaved. I was never threatened. Never belonged to ANY party. With my big mouth, I never spend a day in prison. I was able to buy New York Herald Tribune. I visited the US Embassy numerous times. Never got a visit from the secret police to inquire why I went there.

There is only one explanation...I never lived in Poland. It was all a dream after a wild night out in Peoria, Illinois - the city where I was born.
amiga500 3 | 1,302
4 Jun 2023 #190
There is only one explanation..

Isin't it obvious? You are the son of the high ranking communist official Franciszek Mazur/Lewko Horodenko
Atch 19 | 3,872
4 Jun 2023 #191
Never felt enslaved.

"Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains."
pawian 204 | 21,119
4 Jun 2023 #192
That's weird...I lived in Warsaw till 1966. Never felt enslaved. I was never threatened.

Your words remind me of an old joke - an old aristocratic French lady was asked about the best time of her life. She replied: The times of the French Revolution.

What? The time of horrible persecution when aristocrats like you ended up under the guillotine??
Yes, because I was 18 then.

So, Novi, you simply don`t remember everything and additionally you embellish things. :):)

With my big mouth,

Which you have developed only quite recently, in this very forum. In real life you are an agreeable, amiable, friendly person. :):):
Novichok 4 | 7,139
4 Jun 2023 #193
So, Novi, you simply don`t remember everything and additionally, you embellish things. :):)

I remember everything, including the four addresses where I lived until my departure.
How can I embellish that I lived in Poland, got free education including MSEE? How can I embellish that I never spend a day in prison? How can I embellish that I never saw a single Soviet soldier? How can I embellish that nobody in my family was arrested?

You, Russia-hating idiots, only "remember" Katyn. Nothing else matters.

"Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains."

Do you even know what that "born free" crap means? Free to do what? Drive on the wrong side of the street? What?
I was born in a hospital. No, I wasn't able to just get up and go.
Atch 19 | 3,872
4 Jun 2023 #194
Do you even know what that "born free" crap means?

Ask Rousseau.
Atch 19 | 3,872
4 Jun 2023 #195
I would never be so rude but if I were going to be, then like the well bred lady I am, I would never use a euphemism. Swearing, like everything else should be done properly.

As to what it means to be born free, there's a question for the ages. I was just musing on the old Rousseau quote. In civilised conversation, the idea is that you would come back with your view, not that you should think you were being told to f@ck off.
Novichok 4 | 7,139
4 Jun 2023 #196
So what is that "born free" crap other that a piece of meaningless poetry?

Do you know anybody who was "born free"? I mean the name, address, and phone number. No, you don't have to reveal them here. A yes or a no will do.
Atch 19 | 3,872
4 Jun 2023 #197
a piece of meaningless poetry?

Have you read 'The Social Contract'?
Novichok 4 | 7,139
4 Jun 2023 #198
Are you going to tell me what that "born free" crap is or not?
mafketis 35 | 11,551
4 Jun 2023 #199
anybody who was "born free"?

No one is born free, but some people want freedom and others don't

here's russia where you can be arrested for saying.... anything or nothing.... a large majority of russians do not want freedom (rather like you they want a big daddy figure who keeps them in line and lets them know what they can think and what they can't).

here's Poland where half a million people protested the sitting government - portrait of a free society....
mafketis 35 | 11,551
4 Jun 2023 #200
She doesn't need your help.

I'm not helping her (she doesn't need that). I'm expressing my strong opinion on your stale, anti-freedom bias, tanky.

You're either in favor of human freedom or you're not. If you're not, then you're a slave at heart.
mafketis 35 | 11,551
4 Jun 2023 #201
Freedom to do WHAT?

Why did you leave the PRL? IIRC you said it was because your salary prospects were so dismal....

The US let you earn a good living....that the PRL (or the USSR) couldn't....

solve for the difference.....
Lyzko 41 | 8,871
4 Jun 2023 #202
Everyone is born to eventually learn the limits of freedom!
No one is ever entirely free anymore than liberty itself is
entirely free.

We all must often fight in order to defend those basic freedoms
to which every human being is entitled.

Entitlement however is not a matter of privilege.
Novichok 4 | 7,139
4 Jun 2023 #203
For the last time:

Freedom to do WHAT????
mafketis 35 | 11,551
4 Jun 2023 #204
Freedom to do WHAT????

Make a decent living! That's only possible with competition which is only possible with freedom....

in the PRL there was one employer (the state) and if you didn't like the wage offered you could try to find another state job that didn't pay any better

in the US, with freedom and competition, if you're competent you can change jobs for more money or negotiate more money because the employer also has discretion in how much to pay

There's also things like freedom to go to whatever church you want to (or to not go to church or to publicly say churches are stupid and backward)

Freedom to criticize the government in public under your own name

Freedom to associate with the people you wish to associate with

Freedom to live where you want

It's very hard to describe freedom to someone who wants to be a slave, so keep asking questions and the free people here will do our best to make you understand.
Novichok 4 | 7,139
4 Jun 2023 #205
Make a decent living!

You should have stopped right here. All the rest is irrelevant because it can be bought with bribes.

People leave their countries for money reasons alone. Nobody left Mexico for American "freedoms" and "democracy". It was for free medical care, free schools, food stamps, and other welfare benefits.

There were many rich people in "communist" Poland. See stores on Chmielna and badylarze.
Working for the government and retiring early is every Euro's dream. See riots in Paris. The same here. Where I live, HS teachers make 120 grand a year and retire at $100,000.

Do you think they give a fu*ck about your "freedoms" and "democracy"?
cms neuf 2 | 2,073
4 Jun 2023 #206
That is because in a free society, HS teachers are valuable in teaching citizens not just essential education, but to be rounded and considerate people.

In Udmurtia, internet trolls, assasins, bodyguards and govt informers are probably all paid more than teachers, because the only thing that matters is that rhe government cronies can continue to steal

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