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History of Polish-Russian relations


GefreiterKania 3 | 51
19 Feb 2021 #1
Inspired by the discussion of German and Russian atrocities in WW2 including Katyń, in another thread, here's some thoughts on the topic.

Russia officially apologised for Katyń; it was one of many atrocities during a horrible, truly barbaric war. We have to remember the victims but what happened in the past is certainly less important than what is going on in the present. Katyń would have been forgiven long time ago, if it wasn't for the constant Russian hostility towards Poland today, not 80 years ago.

It is in today's Russia that books like that...

rosyjska kniga

... are printed, not 80 years ago.

It is today, not 80 years ago, that in Russia people like this raving lunatic...

Dugin

... are listened to attentively and cherished, instead of being locked up in a mental asylum.

jagiellonia.org/zlote-mysli-kremlowskiego-szamana/

Constant stream of hostility is what's coming towards Poland from Russia. Imagine if such books were printed in Germany and if German ideologues denied Poland the very right to existence (as Dugin does). Imagine if German mentality and attitude towards Poles hadn't changed compared to 80 years ago as it is still the case with Russia.

One of the paradoxes of Polish-Russian relations is that ordinary people in both countires are certainly not hostile towards each other, and on a simple cultural (not civilisational - it's a different matter) level, most of them acknowledge our common Slavic heritage and get on perfectly well. It is on the governmental level that Russia still displays the same Soviet, or even tsarist, attitude towards Poland ("Курица не птица, Польша не заграница"). If that doesn't change then nothing will change.

I wonder what other posters' thoughts on the topic are.
OP GefreiterKania 3 | 51
19 Feb 2021 #2
Today, it's the US, dressed up as NATO.

Exactly. That's where Polish pro-American foreign policy stems from, which leads to the accusations of Poland being "American Trojan donkey" in the EU. We know that the US is our only hope if sh*t ever really hits the fan.

lunatics here on this forum who cheer America's decline

America is not perfect but I don't think I would like to live in a world where either China or Russia take over global domination. I know that some people wish for the US to lose their international position--those people probably haven't thought this through (a classic case of "be careful what you wish for").

EDIT: The post I was replying to seems to have disappeared. Hmm...

Probably because some of it was of topic
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #3
Polish-Russian relations are going to be vital during the next 20-30 years. When Putin dies, and a more liberal government (read less authoritarian, nothing to do about Democratic Party in the U.S.A)

Takes place. Then having good relations with said government can increase trade and exchange of culture. Not to say the least, possible increase in energy deals. Gas etc
Vlad1234 16 | 753
19 Feb 2021 #4
denied Poland the very right to existence (as Dugin does)

Interesting. Could you provide some citations from his works which indicate that? Did you read his works in Russian or in some Polish interpretation?
jon357 66 | 16,960
19 Feb 2021 #5
t is/today, not 80 years ago, that.in Russia people like this raving lunatic......are listened.to.attentively and cherished, instead of being locked up in a mental asylum.

It's a vast country with many people living wretched lives. It incubated individuals like that.

When Putin dies, and a more liberal government (read less authoritarian,

I wish I had your optimism. It's more likely to break up into fiefdoms like Bashkortistan.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #6
@jon357
Russian patriotic-zeal won't allow a "rozbicie dzielnicowe" faster it will be a civil war.

A decentralized Russia would be quite functional for the Russian Federation cause of vast distances and reducing the need for communication with the top for every little thing in their lives.

Unfortunately that would need trust, responsibility and co-operation without having to use fists or threat of it with every little thing. So far, I have seen that to be quite impossible so far as their "macho-gorilla" approach seem to be quite popular there.
OP GefreiterKania 3 | 51
19 Feb 2021 #7
Did you read his works in Russian or in some Polish interpretation?

I read articles about him, but I particularly remember a press interview with him (I don't remember what periodical it was) in which he claimed that there is no place for independent Poland between Russia and Germany (or something to that effect). The interview was translated into Polish but I doubt they would misinterpret his words so much as to mean something completely different.

Take this quotation from Dugin in the article I linked, there's something very similar to his usual rants, it starts with...

dla Polski miejsca nie ma. [...] Rosja w swoim geopolitycznym oraz sakralno-geograficznym rozwoju nie jest zainteresowana istnieniem niepodległego państwa polskiego w żadnej postaci.

Translation: "There is no place for Poland on the eurasian continent [...] Russia in her geopolitical and sacral-geographical development is not interested in the existence of independent Polish state in any form. She is not interested in the existence of Ukraine either. Not because we don't like Poles or Ukrainians but because such are the laws of sacral geography and geopolitics."

He should be kept in a place with very few door handles and windows...

It incubated individuals like that.

I understand that. The problem is that this lunatic is listened to by Russian nationalists and exerts influence over Kremlin as well.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
19 Feb 2021 #8
The problem is that this lunatic

That is the problem.

He should be kept in a place with very few door handles and windows.

I second that!
Strzelec35 10 | 1,075
19 Feb 2021 #9
however the thread or topic started of this thread is a total retard. it isnt Russians who are hostile toward Poland in fact they consider us brothers its retarded pollacks who are racists and think they're west who hate Ukrainians jees Russians and everyone but themselves and white supremacist Donald Trump. Russians are some of the best most friendly people and it is only pollacks who get mad if they speak their language in their country not the other way around. ive never seen or heard Russians mad at Polish or mad at hearing Polish language or blame Jews for their problems like pollacks do. and thats probably a really good book much better than the american crap i had to read in California schools about Americans supposedly saving everyone.
Novichok - | 1,941
19 Feb 2021 #10
Could you provide some citations from his works which indicate that?

I read the excerpts using the included link. Those are clearly shocking and unfriendly to a Pole. If you switch sides, his statements are as patriotic as can be considering the history of aggression toward Russia by the French and German megalomaniacs. So, I am not surprised that Russia wants buffer states - today more than ever. That cancer aka NATO must be keeping those in charge in Moscow awake at night.

Poland joining NATO is one thing. Poles playing shocked and stupid about Russia's attitude and its reaction to it is another.

He should be kept in a place with very few door handles and windows...

Who said that a Russian patriot must be Poland's friend? What if those feelings are mutually exclusive?
Strzelec35 10 | 1,075
19 Feb 2021 #11
they actually teach that old movie about the partizans destroying the Soviet army the Hollywood movie in American history classes in high school. growing up there in California i had to watch that us propaganda garbage. enemy at the dawn or whatever its called. what a bunch of looney tunes USA is.

" Inspired by the discussion of German and Russian atrocities in WW2 including Katyń, in another thread, here's some thoughts on the topic."

what about jedwabne tho? do they teach that in Polish schools yet?
jon357 66 | 16,960
19 Feb 2021 #12
Russian patriotic-zeal won't allow a "rozbicie dzielnicowe" faster it will be a civil war.

That's my feeling too.

I understand that. The problem is that this lunatic is listened to by Russian nationalists and exerts influence over Kremlin as well.

They keep on throwing up wild-eyed prophets. Gapon, Rasputin and before even. Now there's this freak, Zhirinowsky and several others.
OP GefreiterKania 3 | 51
19 Feb 2021 #13
Who said that a Russian patriot must be Poland's friend?

Nobody is saying that.

However, there is a fine line between "not being a friend of a country" and not "being interested in the existence" of this country "in any form". :)

They keep on throwing up wild-eyed prophets.

They do indeed. *rolls eyes*

honever the threat or topic started of this thread is a total retard

Who let you out of your cage, monkey boy?
Novichok - | 1,941
19 Feb 2021 #14
Hey, Polish patriots, what do you expect from a Russian patriot? A suggestion that Poland should get 10 US divisions and subs parked 13 miles from St. Petersburg?

not "being interested in the existence" of this country

He didn't say that Poles should be exterminated.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #16
@Novichok
Start acting like a great power, and not frantic teenager with the need of a gigantic tube on tractor belts to show off.

If their able to do that, nobody is going to ask for any American soldiers
Strzelec35 10 | 1,075
19 Feb 2021 #17
"We know that the US is our only hope if sh*t ever really hits the fan."

no because Poland is fukl of cowards who hide behind others or big brother like a little child on the playground going to his dad or big brother after starting s fight and having them fight for them. thats why.

" Start acting like a great power, and not frantic teenager with the need of a gigantic tube on tractor belts to show off.

If their able to do that, nobody is going to ask for any American soldiers."

hope Biden gives you the fingers and sells you right wing retards to Putin see how tough you ste then.
Novichok - | 1,941
19 Feb 2021 #18
Start acting like a great power,

Like China creating new islands? That great power? Or the UK hellbent on committing suicide?
Tell me how Russia should act with that slithering snake, NATO, devouring everything at Russia's doorstep to justify its existence. It must be the militaristic and super aggressive nature of the Warsaw Pact. Yeah. That's it.
jon357 66 | 16,960
19 Feb 2021 #19
If their able to do that, nobody is going to ask for any American soldiers

China is the elephant in the room. It's the newly risen superpower, getting much more powerful rather than less (and this likely to continue for a long, long time), and has a long border with Russia.
Strzelec35 10 | 1,075
19 Feb 2021 #20
i dont get why they co plain about Russia doing the exact same thing NATO does. it reminds me how Polish people complain about Ukrainians killing them during the war and their racism but never their own atrocities toward Jews or what others did to non white nations like Americans to slaves or Indians who they love so much (murdering Americans not the Indians). its ok if it happens to someone else but not to them or america is just fine when it does it to others but Russia cant entoach on their borders. i dont get it guys.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #21
@strzelec35
Why am I surprised that a redneck has been brainwashed so much by the American school system he doesn't even make sense anymore to me.

@Novichok
Last time I checked, it has been U.S involvement in those cases you contribute to NATO.

I can understand Serbians (and any ex-Yugoslav) having a grudge against NATO. So far they haven't invaded or bombed Russia
Strzelec35 10 | 1,075
19 Feb 2021 #22
at least they dont teach pis or right wing Polish dogma or religion in those schools so they are still better than the Polish ones with worthless Polish university degrees outside Poland. they focus on practical skills and critical thinking not dogma or rycie me orizatiom **** no one caes about or uses anyway like Poland does.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #23
@strzelec35
If they had been teaching you critical thinking instead of brainwashing, you would actually understand "pis or right polish dogma or religion"

Instead your raving like a toddler on an internet-forum crying for attention and sympathy for not understanding Polish culture or norms in Polish society and expect norms you have experienced in the states to be universal (which is bullocks by the way)
Novichok - | 1,941
19 Feb 2021 #24
I don't think Putin reads PF. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if he were well aware of the hate and the venom coming from Poles toward Russia. Then he looks at the kill numbers, the relationship between the barbarians and the victim, and concludes that it's hopeless to make things better in his lifetime.

When Russia let Poles come to Smolensk and their stupid pilot crashed the plane, Russia again had to defend itself against ignorant and hateful accusations. Crimea - the same thing. Not very productive.
jon357 66 | 16,960
19 Feb 2021 #25
I don't think Putin reads PF.

You can bet your bottom dollar that some of his staff do. As do people who work in the dark for the PiSuarzy.

So do quite a few journalists and academics. Something from here once made its way to a foreign newspaper.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #26
@jon357
I wouldn't be surprised either to be honest, but yeah. Hopefully most of the right-wing posts from American users aren't confused with Polish-Right wingers...

It would just give Poland more headiches
Novichok - | 1,941
19 Feb 2021 #27
It would just give Poland more headiches

Let me assure you that it would be the American "right-wingers" with their AR's defending Poland way before you would see one solitary leftist.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #28
@Novichok
Yeah, but it would be riling up Polish leftists crying to Brussels calling us fascists and giving Poland more trouble
jon357 66 | 16,960
19 Feb 2021 #29
Polish leftists

Perhaps in some ways, true patriots...

crying to Brussels

Wanting the best.

calling us fascists

You're a long way from being one of those.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
19 Feb 2021 #30
@jon357
I know that, thank you. Still it insults me more then anything else. If it wasn't for my cold and calm nature I would had a tantrum every time I was accused of it.

If the Polish left were sincere, I could call it patriotic but it stinks with Targowica and a way of simply scoring a political point.

Most political parties in Poland are also very short sighted with the EU. While I see it as a long-term possibility which was never possible to imagine in history


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