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Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU


johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #181
Why didn't you finish my quote ?

in your life time

Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,139
4 Jan 2020 #182
and the EU is now administered by self-loathing persons

Who would that be?

critique of German European policy from the left....

Nah...you must be mistaken.....the EU is a socialist/communist/marxist plot.....didn't you read Spike???

It's interesting how every political side projects it's biggest fears into the EU....
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #183
in your life time

Oh, you're a clairvoyant then? Sorry, I never met any person claiming to have supernatural powers - interesting.

Regarding the rest of your quote - if one civilised society did indeed use nuclear weapons on civilians in a not-so-distant past, why wouldn't another civilised society do the same thing again? Oh, sorry, I forgot you can look into the future and see :)

As I said, we take too many things for granted these days.
johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #184
Could be because we have learned and seen the horrible aftermath of years to come of such a weapon do ya think.
Add that to the fact the fear if someone was stupid enough to use one....... their country would be turned into a pile of glass.

As I said, we take too many things for granted these days.

Well your nightmares are not one of them.
OP kondzior 10 | 961
4 Jan 2020 #185
Who would that be?

youtu.be/u2HHgY59lGI
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,139
4 Jan 2020 #186
Yeah...she is Germany's problem....but she is hardly "the EU", isn't she?
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #187
Could be because we have learned and seen the horrible aftermath

One thing that we can say for certain after learning about world history is that people DON'T learn from past mistakes.

Add that to the fact the fear if someone was stupid enough to use one....... their country would be turned into a pile of glass.

I think you'd be wrong here, Johnny. If Russia used limited nuclear strike on one or two Polish cities and military objects - do you think the US would risk total annihilation of their country by answering with a nuclear strike against Russia? Certainly not, and nobody in Poland is naive enough to believe that they would. Hence, the necessity to have our own nuclear weapons. Our geopolitical position is extremely difficult, certainly more difficult than that of France for example - they border Spain, Italy and Gemany for crying out loud. :) Yet, nobody protests France having nuclear weapons. Even Pakistan is allowed to have them, so I can ask again - why not Poland?

Well your nightmares are not one of them.

These are not my nightmares - it's simply something that might happen, if we don't have nuclear weapons (because nobody will use their nuclear weapons in our defence, I think that much is obvious).
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #189
Another clairvoyant!

What is it? Supernatural Powers Week on PF? :)
johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #190
No. the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

I can ask again - why not Poland?

Poland already has defensive nukes located within Poland.

- it's simply something that might happen,

Any number of things "might happen" such as an earthquake that would level Warsaw.

NOBODY will use nukes in Europe!

Because if they did and got a counter nuke strike it would contaminate every country in the E.U. as small as it is.
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #191
Poland already has defensive nukes located within Poland.

If you mean NATO Nuclear Sharing, then you are wrong - there are no nuclear weapons present in Poland as a part of this or any other NATO scheme because Russia protested it :) As I said, the US will never risk nuclear war with Russia over Poland, simple as that.

...I have my crystal ball!!

...and I have my steel balls!
Rich Mazur 4 | 4,339
4 Jan 2020 #192
their country would be turned into a pile of glass.

...and that is why nukes are good as they are the weapons of peace. Another Korean war where 40,000 Americans died is not possible today. Thank you, fat boy. Please, don't give them up. Gaddafi did and look what they did to him, so don't be stupid.
johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #193
- there are no nuclear weapons present in Poland

Oh, o.k., there aren't. NOT !
Especially loaded on U.S. war planes in Poland and who knows how many more ?
Should we tell Putin how many there are in Poland ?
Did you know about the secret of how many nukes were located in Poland during the Cold War by Russia before I just told you ?

My guess is NO so how would you know how many U.S. nukes are located in Poland presently ? lol
nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/01/archaeology-reveals-cold-war-nuclear-bunkers-poland/
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #194
My guess is NO

A rather lousy guess for a clairvoyant, if I may say so.

My educated guess would be that no matter how many secret American nukes there are in Poland (if indeed any), they will never be used against Russia anyway. That's why we need our own.

Let me put it this way: might Russia use limited nuclear strike against Poland, if there are no nuke at our disposal (apart from magical secret American nukes lol)? Of course they might, and as I said before such nuclear strike will NOT be answered by an American nuclear strike against Russia, for obvious reason.

Would Russia execute nuclear strike against Poland, if they knew we have our own strong nuclear forces? Of course not.

That's precisely the whole point of having nuclear weapons - so that they don't have to be used.
johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #195
How many nukes do you think Poland would need to protect herself against Russia ?
And what size of nukes are you talking about ?
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #196
I'd say that strategic arsenal similar to that of France would be quite enough to deter Russia.
johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #197
How do you figure when France has 300 nukes and Russia has 7,500 located all around the world from Siberia to subs in every ocean.
And since it would only take 3 nukes to bring Poland to it's knees who do you think would prevail in the end with your expertise military philosophy ?
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #198
It's very simple - 300 nukes are capable of such destruction that it simply wouldn't make any sense for Russia to start nuclear conflict with Poland. The losses inflicted on them would simply be too devastating compared to any gains they might hope for. Poland would be completely destroyed, and Russia after receiving 300-nuke strike wouldn't look very well either. That's why it would never happen, and that's why we need the nukes to deter Russia.

Hate to quote myself, but...

That's precisely the whole point of having nuclear weapons - so that they don't have to be used.

... simple as that.
mafketis 21 | 7,607
4 Jan 2020 #199
every political side projects it's biggest fears into the EU....

It's almost as if it weren't 100% benign....
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,139
4 Jan 2020 #200
I doubt there is such a thing as "100% benign"...it's always about how to get the most advantages out of something. And right now the EU and also the liberal market economy + democracy is our best bet...it keeps more people quite comfortable than any other known alternatives..

So...till the critics come up with a better concept I keep (and fight for) what enables me to live a reasonable free, self-determined, well off, peaceful and secure life, thank you!

(The alternatives I know of and have lived through all suck compared to what we have)
Tacitus 2 | 927
4 Jan 2020 #201
It's almost as if it weren't 100% benign....

People can villify anybody and anything. Which is why even people like Gandhi got murdered.

The EU is the greatest political project of peace and prosperity ever undertaken. But that doesn't stop people from hating it. Hatred is never rational nor sane.
johnny reb 20 | 4,130
4 Jan 2020 #202
Actually and hypothetically if Russia did start a nuclear conflict it would take out all of Poland's nuke sites before any nuke's could be launched.

Back to my point from 2 hours ago.....................

You will never see nuclear weapons used by any civilized society in the world in your life time so sleep well.

"The only thing that you have to fear Torg is fear itself."
Lenka 3 | 1,696
4 Jan 2020 #203
I find it funny that an American can keep saying how noone will use nukes and nobody else needs them while it's USA that already used the nukes, has no intention of getting rid of theirs and are always against others having them. Hilarious
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #204
Actually and hypothetically if Russia did start a nuclear conflict it would take out all of Poland's nuke sites before any nuke's could be launched.

Back to clairvoyance, are we? :)

Look, I am tired of this "argument". Poland WILL one day get her own Nuclear Forces. We are no less entitled to having them than France or Pakistan.
OP kondzior 10 | 961
4 Jan 2020 #205
Yeah...she is Germany's problem....but she is hardly "the EU", isn't she?

She is the Supreme Chancellor of the German Fourth Reich, the leading member-state of the EUSSR, and therefore the most influential member of the European Council, which is its chief institution.
Torq 26 | 2,434
4 Jan 2020 #206
German Fourth Reich, the leading member-state of the EUSSR

Comparing the EU to either Third Reich or USSR is, frankly, ridiculous.

That's what I really don't get about the EU critics - can't they get their criticism (sometimes justified) across without resorting to such nonsense? You are taking away your own credibility by making such comparisons.
Tacitus 2 | 927
4 Jan 2020 #207
Supreme Chancellor of the German Fourth Reich, the leading member-state of the EUSSR

Did you just mix Star Wars, Nazi Germany and the UdSSR together?
Lenka 3 | 1,696
4 Jan 2020 #208
You have to admire some posters talent at creating meaningless slogans and catch phrases.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,139
4 Jan 2020 #209
She is the Supreme Chancellor of the German Fourth Reich,

....yeah....but she will probably gone next year....(not quite voluntarily if the current gov coalition breaks up)....what then?

Who will become your next boogeyman?

Does it have to be a German???

That's what I really don't get about the EU critics - can't they get their criticism (sometimes justified) across without resorting to such nonsense?

A question of mine too!

If you go by such critics the EU can't be that bad....
Tacitus 2 | 927
4 Jan 2020 #210
They are hardly creating anything. They are just mindlessy repeating nonsensical slogans they red on conspiracy sites.

Though I must say I find it in poor taste doing this on a forum dedicated to a country that has suffered so much under both Nazi Germany and the SU.


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