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Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU


cms neuf - | 1,589
21 Jan 2020 #421
spike I am happy with the overall rate of tax %- it's one of the lower ones in Europe and there might come a day when I need the safety net myself.

Sure some of it could be spent better and I am very uncomfortable with direct handouts that you get just for breathing, but I lived in a few countries and they all wasted money in their own particular ways.

Nothing would make me vote Konfederacja - they are total whack jobs. I met Korwin Mikke a few times and he is a loony for real - it's not just an act.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,075
21 Jan 2020 #422
Actually she does use it, but through the civil service and her government :))

Only in the sense that the government is 'technically' her Majesty's government. In reality and practice, though, it is the Queen who is "her government's queen" and not vice versa.

The reality of the constitutional monarchy in the UK is that it is Parliament which dictates state decisions to the country and the Queen only serves as a kind of a royal doll who signs them. This is her allegedly 'constitutional' right, but has nothing to do with real political power which is exercized elsewhere.

If the Queen were presented with a parliamentary bill stating that the monarch would be beheaded next Saturday, she would have no other choice than to sign it as everything else she has to sign in the name of parliament or government.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,264
21 Jan 2020 #423
@Ziemowit

Except for one thing.
The British Armed Forces swear allegience to the Queen and not the government.
In theory if an unsavoury person became PM or dictator the army would obey the Queen.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
21 Jan 2020 #424
And it reflects in their actual level of support.

Which is growing.

As soon as people start actually working, they realise that they prefer the welfare safety

A soon as people start working they also start to realize how much they have to pay in taxes. And how little they got left in their wallets after heavy taxasion.

We just have to make them realize that it doesn't have to be that way.

You can see Spike is Polish as he is gonna argue pro and cons of a moot point to dead.

I will take it as a compliment :-) Tbh. Internet forums were made for that purpuse.

I met Korwin Mikke a few times and he is a loony for rea

Konfederacja is much more than just Korwin. And Korwin's influence has diminished even within his own faction. Who is Konfederacja's presidential candidate? Krzysztof Bosak from the national movement.
mafketis 23 | 8,404
21 Jan 2020 #425
Who is Konfederacja's presidential candidate? Krzysztof Bosak

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 294
21 Jan 2020 #426
Anyhow....I'm no longer discussing that puzzle,

BB once your DNA confirmed, what you were aware of a long time ago that you are predominantly Slavic. Let's not argue about details Sorb, Pole Who cares

even with a slight dusting of German you are excepted as a brother::)). Argumentative, slippery, evasive but a brother
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
21 Jan 2020 #427
I maintain that a Polexit would be an even more disastrous, precipitously unthought out move for Poland than Brexit for Britain.
The former would merely be shooting herself in the foot!
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
21 Jan 2020 #428
Argumentative, slippery, evasive but a brother

...still cheering for the Mannschaft, so! :)
Spike31 3 | 1,637
21 Jan 2020 #429
I maintain that a Polexit would be an even more disastrous,

I stand on the position that instead "exiting" we should disasemble the EU - in its current shape and form - from within. If we leave now then we will have a huge, semi-hostile to Poland after Polexit, political organism ruled by Germany and France behind our Western borders. That would not be the best option for Poland.

There are more EU-sceptic movements in the EU and we should collaborate with them and make coordinated actions against "ever tighter union". And obvioulsy we should oppose forming the EU-army in any shape and form.

Poland and Hungary should stand as a banner for the others to join.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
21 Jan 2020 #430
If we leave now

Not to mention at least half of the Poles would be deeply unhappy and resent the other half...

and make coordinated actions against "ever tighter union".

I doubt that is possible!

After all for that it doesn't need the "nay-sayer"....just the "yeah-sayer" cooperating and doing their thing. Poland can take part innit or not...but not stop it.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
21 Jan 2020 #431
As long as Poland is able to block neo-marxist nonsense coming from the EU core and benefit from single market at the same time I'm quite content with that.

Time works for us anyway.
Crow 139 | 8,609
21 Jan 2020 #433
Time works for us anyway.

Exactly. Now is different in Multi-Polar world. New balance of power in Europe and world is already established. Poland itself is seen to be enlisted in core of one global civilization from Baltic to Balkan (certainly even wider).
Torq 32 | 2,999
21 Jan 2020 #434
neo-marxist nonsense coming from the EU core

À propos neomarxism - those of you who can read in Polish should check out a brilliant book on the topic...

key4.pl/historia-antykultury.html

historiaantykultury.pl

youtu.be/Q336eahhsC4
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 294
21 Jan 2020 #435
.still cheering for the Mannschaft, so! :)

Oh sure, as long as it is under the Slavic banner!
Crow 139 | 8,609
21 Jan 2020 #436
My heart is full of joy when see how Poles aren`t naive anymore. Western Europe can only cry now and Poland can ready itself for full restoration of Her glory.
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 294
21 Jan 2020 #437
Not to mention at least half of the Poles would be deeply unhappy and resent the other half...

I know, you as a Slav, oppose the idea of divide and conquer. It used to work for Germany, rather doubtful at the moment.
Besides, it benefits the wolf to keep all of the stupid seeps together, with minor help from pathetic French poodle, of course.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
21 Jan 2020 #438
Spike,
Just how would said "disassemblage" then take place?
Spike31 3 | 1,637
21 Jan 2020 #439
The Soviet Union has ceased to exist because of economic collapse. And once it got weaker an ethic tensions has started to be visible as well.

Austro-Hungarian Empire has collapsed because of the nationalist movements and ethnic tensions within it.

And those two were strong, centralized organisms with their own armies and police forces.

The EU, fortunatelly, doesn't have such tools at its disposal. The EU in its current form can only exist as a voluntary union of nations. And the Brussels can only try to use propaganda, a and the money, to keep its members at bay. The EU doesn't have hard power and cannot force anyone to act according to their will. The EU apparatus is virtually helpless against the Polish and Hungarian political resistance so far.

Poland is quite immune to that propaganda and soon also will become a net payer to the EU budget. So even a financial blackmail would not be possible. The long term political goals of Poland are not the same as those held by the EU core. The EU wants federalization - Poland prefers Europe of nations. The EU stears towards cultural marxism - Poland wants to keep its traditional values. The split is inevitable. It is only a matter of time.

There are more cracks on the surface of the EU, which can be used to disasemble it:

- most eurozone members, and especially the economies of Spain and Italy, are being screwed by € currency, which only truly benefits Germany and Netherlands.

- almost 5 years passed and the "refugee" crisis is still there. And the Turkey is blackmailing the EU by threatening to release another big wave of "refugees"

- Italian economy has stalled and stopped growing since the 90's. There are many EU sceptic forces in the country on both: the right and the left political spectrum

- In Spain there's a huge unemplyment rate, up to 35% among young people. And the far-right Vox political party is growing in numbers and has 50 MEPs in a parliament as of now.

- Greece is still in a finacial pit and was humiliated by the Germany during the last crisis

- There is a social unrest in France, general strikes and a yellow vests movement which is still very active on the street more than a year after its creation. This could possibly boost Marine Le Pen to power during the next elections.

- and even in Germany you've got AfD, a third political power, which has gained a great support in the East Germany

Another "refugee" crisis combined with financial crisis at the same time could be the final nail in the coffin for the EU.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,264
21 Jan 2020 #440
The long term political goals of Poland are not the same as those held by the EU core

You are a clever chap Spike :-)

Europe is in trouble.
But have you seen the IMF predictions for UK growth compared to Europe?
People are putting their faith in the UK because it is strong and stable.... Unlike much of Europe.
Brexit will be at the very least, good for the UK and it may even be great.....
TheOther 6 | 3,821
21 Jan 2020 #441
by € currency, which only truly benefits Germany and Netherlands.

You guys conveniently forget that the Germans didn't want the Euro.
cms neuf - | 1,589
22 Jan 2020 #442
The Eurozone forecast is 1.4 percent. The total EU forecast is higher

The Uk forecast is 1.5 percent (after 4 years of lagging). That assumes a soft Brexit btw

There are many Eurozone countries with higher forecasts, including poor old Spain.

It is hardly a ringing endorsement of Brexit.
Spike31 3 | 1,637
22 Jan 2020 #443
Just how would said "disassemblage" then take place?

Step by step.

Well, for a starter Poland should address EU-skeptic groups with in the EU and give them political and financial support, if needed, and to give those organizations a political legitimacy and recognition.

We need to create a bold diplomacy focused on reinforcing our narrative about nation-states and traditional european values. There's still a plenty of people who thinks this way even in the Old Europe and we need to get them on our side.

Then we should establish our own far-reaching NGOs which would promote Europe of nations and traditional values*.

* Much like a German-operated Konrad Adenauer fundation or Soros's Stefan Batory Foundation who are pushing "progressive" values in Poland and the rest of the EU.

The current government is preocupied with the internal affairs and neglects that. Konfederacja is more active on that field and, for example, makes connections with activists and persons of influence visiting Independence March in Warsaw each year.

Europe is in trouble.

The EU is in trouble, Europe will be just fine :-)
Miloslaw 7 | 3,264
22 Jan 2020 #444
Yes, I stand corrected...... :-)
cms neuf - | 1,589
22 Jan 2020 #445
But what about your night watchman state ? Minimal tax ? Now you are saying we should give Polish taxpayers money to fund Eurosceptic whack jobs and sexually repressed skinheads in other countries?

They already get plenty from Russia so god knows why they need Polish money
Spike31 3 | 1,637
22 Jan 2020 #446
But what about your night watchman state

cms neuf, do you even know what an NGO is? A non-governmental organization...And that's what minimal state is all about - a concious citizens organizing themselves and taking matters into own hands.

money to fund Eurosceptic whack jobs and sexually repressed skinheads

A traditional Europeans with EU-sceptic views not "repressed skinheads". But yes, keep on naming them whackjobs, skinheads etc. This will only attaract more followers pissed by those primitive shaming techniques.
Crow 139 | 8,609
22 Jan 2020 #447
Greta Tunberg. Just wait that those behind this Greta Tunberg start to show their real intention on Poland, rest of Visegrad, Central and Eastern Europe, Balkans, on Slavs after all.

Global players may decided on new world order in general but, certain financial groups still don`t give up.

The EU is in trouble, Europe will be just fine :-)

EU isn`t Europe. Its not all what Europe is.

Actually, is EU even a Europe?
cms neuf - | 1,589
22 Jan 2020 #448
So if you want to spend your own money on NGO to buy some new r shirts and hover boots for some bored Slovak teenagers then go ahead. Of courses most countries rightly have laws against foreign funding of political parties.

Im confused about your minimal state to be honest - do you mean I have to club together with my neighbors to fix the roads ? Some of them are drunk, some are kids, some are very old and none of them know about fixing roads. . Maybe a better idea is that people pay money into a big pot and hire some professionals to do it - that sounds kinda like a functioning tax system.
CJH
22 Jan 2020 #449
Pretty sure Poland takes in many more refugees than most EU states - there are almost a million Ukrainians here now, thanks to Putin causing so much trouble at the East. Nobody talks about these refugees but Poland took them in - as they are functioning members of society and are not going to build ghettos up and eventually stab and bomb the population here.

re Polexit - another way of looking at it would be getting the Visegrad states to exit as a block (Czech Rep, Slovakia, Hungary Poland) and then they'd remove from Western Europe their "cheap" workforce and 4 swiftly growing economies. All 4 have great growth and would thrive once unshackled from the EU rules.
gumishu 11 | 5,191
22 Jan 2020 #450
there are almost a million Ukrainians here now,

Ukranians in Poland are gastarbeiters not refugees (by a humongous majority)

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