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Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU


Spike31 3 | 1,610
20 Jan 2020 #391
Do you think that Grzegorz Braun is of german heritage?

He may have some German roots but he is as Polish as kotlet schabowy z kapusta. He doesn't have much warm feelings towards Germany - to say the least - if that's what you're asking about :-)

His family lived in Poland for generations and he was born and raised in Poland, so he is as much of a German as John Travolta is Italian.

Does he really wants a monarchy back???

Yes, and what's so weird about it? Great Britain was a monarchy since its conception and it is one the most civilized countries in the world.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #392
Yes, and what's so weird about it?

Well...yeah...it's kinda weird, since the british monarchy is not much more than a disney franchise by now...besides Great Britain is also one of the oldest democracies.

I somehow don't think he is thinking of a purely representing monarchy whose members fill the yellow pages but have no real power at all.

That means he thinks about a real monarchy where the king rules supreme...do you really think that will help Konfederacija to power one day? And what then? Will there be a contest about who will become King and Queen? And then? Will the Sejm abolish itself???

Did he think that through??? And is that a catholic thing???
Spike31 3 | 1,610
20 Jan 2020 #393
since the british monarchy is not much more than a disney franchise by now

And you would be wrong, since Queen Elizabeth II has a lot of political power. She just decide not to use it.
gumishu 11 | 5,155
20 Jan 2020 #394
I was a Korwin-Mikke supporter in the past - I just grew past unlimited liberalism -
Atch 17 | 3,221
20 Jan 2020 #395
Queen Elizabeth II has a lot of political power. She just decide not to use it.

Actually she does use it, but through the civil service and her government :))
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #396
And you would be wrong, since Queen Elizabeth II has a lot of political power. She just decide not to use it.

And I still doubt that is what Konfederacija has in mind....a monarchy not using it's political power.

Is that really part of the party program? And does Braun believe that he will gain the support of a majority with that?

(I must admit I'm a bit baffled)
mafketis 23 | 8,360
20 Jan 2020 #397
Queen Elizabeth II has a lot of political power. She just decide not to use it.

And that's why she still has it. If she actually descended to the level of daily policy her symbolic powers would evaporate very quickly....

Konfederacja has decided to sit out the presidential election by nominating a large infant with no base of support (they're de facto supporting the also infantile Duda who was shaking his tiny widdle fists in fury the other day during a tantrum about foweign wanguages)
Spike31 3 | 1,610
20 Jan 2020 #398
And I still doubt that is what Konfederacija has in mind....a monarchy not using it's political power.

I simply said that the Queen has got the power and she's not there only for a "decoration" like you put it.

Political power is there to be used for the benefit of the nation. And a single person educated in ruling since childhood can make tought and often unpopular but necessary political decissions.

Politicians in democracy are elected for a 4-5 year term and they rarely look beyond it (there are exceptions). And even when they do is only to secure themselves another 4-year term by making empty promises and/or bribing citizens with their own [taxpayer's] money.

A monarch has a much wider scope and can plan for decades. That brings stability and allows large geopolitical projects to be completed.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #399
Only if you are lucky....

Do you think the EU would be better off with a King?
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 294
20 Jan 2020 #400
Based on wishful thinking....the staple on this forum!

I wish you good health and happiness, not necessarily on this forum never the less I do
Spike31 3 | 1,610
20 Jan 2020 #401
The EU is a political organization of nations that hardly tries to become a federation against the will of the most nations who participate in this project.

The EU should have less political legitimacy not more. That said, there was a queen of the EU and her name was Angela Merkel, but she did "someting stupid" in 2015 and lost her crown :-P
Miloslaw 7 | 3,216
20 Jan 2020 #402
The EU should have less political legitimacy not more

100% correct.
The push for closer union will eventually kill the EU.
I am shocked that they still cannot see this.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #403
I wish you good health and happiness, not necessarily on this forum never the less I do

I've seen you crossing your fingers behind your back...

That said, there was a queen of the EU and her name was Angela Merkel, but she did "someting stupid" in 2015....

But isn't that the risk of having a real monarchy? No chance of her leaving office even after a huge **** up...besides with the feet in front.

Merkel will be gone soon...a real Queen? Not!

What then?

I am shocked that they still cannot see this.

That's called different opinions, Milo.

And you can sleep well, it's not our generation which will decide about that....
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 294
20 Jan 2020 #404
I've seen you crossing your fingers behind your back..

Not entirely true, blame it on itching, I was scratching my back.
Ironside 49 | 10,282
21 Jan 2020 #405
..a "soviet catholic" ??? What's that???

A catholic with Soviet views on the role of the church and religion in a public life of a society.

Do you think that Grzegorz Braun is of german heritage?

If he is then his family assimilated at least 300 years ago.
Spike31 3 | 1,610
21 Jan 2020 #406
No chance of her leaving office even after a huge **** up

Well, Angela is still a chancellor of Germany, no? :-)

Btw. I'm going to watch "The Golden Glove" to educate myself a bit in a modern German culture, heh.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #407
Well, Angela is still a chancellor of Germany, no? :-)

Imagine she would be a real Queen! :)

But there you have it, democracy is better! Every election is also a kind of hope...eternal monarchy just sucks!

I think that alone will make sure that the Konfederacija will never get anywhere...not even with polish Catholics.
mafketis 23 | 8,360
21 Jan 2020 #408
Especially real Polish catholics, catholicism is a univeralist religion that stresses the unity of humankind and thus it strives to make itself available to all who might want it. This is also why Poland is relatively accepting (compared to other countries in the region) of genetically non-Polish people joining the society.

Konfederacja seems to come from a more Eastern orthodox view where religions belong to some groups and ethnic origin boxes people in to narrow groups for their whole lives (see nationality laws in the CCCP). It also ties into Eastern ideas of hierarchy and existential inequality while RCatholicism (despite the hierarchy in the church) is more aimed at stressed equality.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #409
Now that is interesting, I didn't know that....
Spike31 3 | 1,610
21 Jan 2020 #410
democracy is better! Every election is also a kind of hope...

Right now in Poland it actually is. Back in 2015, when Poland was pressured to take in "refugees", people voted for PiS to block it.

And now Konfederacja is in Polish parliament and the young generation of right-wind voters is growing to support it to grow further.

Democracy only works when there is a healthy society and universal values which unites it as a nation.

And who knows, in the future, we may democratically - by a popular vote - establish a constitutional monarchy in Poland. What would such a democrat as yourself said about it then? :-)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #411
Democracy only works when there is a healthy society and universal values which unites it as a nation.

And democracy decides which values are healthy and universal...that's the point! Not you or some autocrat!

Opening their arms and purses for poor strangers no matter the religion or color might be seen by others also as healthy and universal..

What would such a democrat as yourself said about it? :-)

A democratic decision to end democracy? There is hopefully something written about it in your constitution....

Merkel is still quite popular....imagine she get's voted for "eternal Queen"....with alot more powers than she has now, no longer "hindered" by party politics and coalition partners and laws etc...

I doubt you would be happy about it!
Spike31 3 | 1,610
21 Jan 2020 #412
Opening their arms and purses for poor strangers

So open your own, private wallet and unvite them under your own private roof instead of demanding that Polish taxpayers should pay with our money and safety for your whims

A democratic decision to end democracy?

Are you saying that G. Britain is not a democratic country? What about Sweden, Netherlands or Spain?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #413
Well, that's whats happening...

But if Maf is correct with the differences of western Catholicism and eastern Orthodoxia then that explains why german Catholics and even the catholic Pope think so differently about helping than you or this Konfederacia party...

Jesus said how his followers treated strangers should show disciple-like behavior.

... I was a stranger and you invited me in.

-Matthew 25:35

worldvision.org/refugees-news-stories/what-does-bible-say-about-refugees

Are you saying that G. Britain is not a democratic country?

As I said before....GB didn't let monarchy stop it from becoming one of the oldest democracies...they are good for the yellow pages, not much more. Nobody has something against THAT! They don't disturb the political process!:)

But that's not what you have in mind...
Spike31 3 | 1,610
21 Jan 2020 #414
think so differently about helping than you or this Konfederacia party.

Konfederacja, or Polish conservatists, doesn't stop anyone from helping whoever they want as long as they are paying for it from their own wallets and taking full responsibility for their guests and their actions.

If someone wants to invite a family of "refugees" under their roof to feed them and to pay for them, they are allowed to do so. Konfederacja is against donating it from a taxpayer's money in the name of some leftist multikulti ideology.
cms neuf - | 1,573
21 Jan 2020 #415
Well refugees were one of the reasons people voted for PiS

The main reason though were that people were tired of an increasingly corrupt PO

And another reason was 500 plus (not sure if those benefits would survive In your idealized night watchman state, but if not then probably good that Konfederacja break the news now that they intend to stop them - Then we will see what presses the buttons of Polish voters who actually live here)

Honestly I don't see much difference to myself in paying tax money to refugees or paying it to some poor family in Polska B - they are both necessary and they both make me poorer but I accept that that is a part of life.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #416
Konfederacja is against donating it from a taxpayer's money in the name of some leftist multikulti ideology.

They probably wouldn't have problems with "donating" tax payers money to the newly installed "crown"...

Anyhow....I'm no longer discussing that puzzle, Maf's explanation makes sense...it's okay for me!
Spike31 3 | 1,610
21 Jan 2020 #417
Honestly I don't see much difference to myself in paying tax money to refugees or paying it to some poor family in Polska B

Then you should vote for Konfederacja. Instead of paying high taxes so the beauracrats would distribute it according to their will we should keep as much money as possible in our own private wallets. Instead of 500+ there should be a 500- in taxes.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
21 Jan 2020 #418
if not then probably good that Konfederacja break the news now that they intend to stop them

And it reflects in their actual level of support. As soon as people start actually working, they realise that they prefer the welfare safety net as opposed to Konfederacja's confused politics where they advocate heavy state intervention alongside free markets.
Ironside 49 | 10,282
21 Jan 2020 #419
Konfederacija will never get anywhere...

That is not an item on their agenda. They might be toying with this idea some more than others but they are not a monarchist party by any stretch of imagination.

You can see Spike is Polish as he is gonna argue pro and cons of a moot point to dead.

But if Maf is correct

Sure all it takes is an American with Protestant background to teach you about Polish issues. It is getting ridiculous. Lol

german Catholics

They are a joke not Catholics, most of them at least. As for the pope which one ? The real one or an impostor ?

refugees

Refugees according to neo-Marxist ideology - get it straight.
mafketis 23 | 8,360
21 Jan 2020 #420
they advocate heavy state intervention alongside free markets.

aka neoliberalism aka the system everybody everywhere else is thoroughly sick of....

all it takes is an American with Protestant background to teach you about Polish issues. It is getting ridiculous. Lol

What did I write that isn't true?

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