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Poland's PiS party members and crime


gregy741 4 | 1,204
25 Nov 2015 #211
PO:
"Today we conducted protest against attempt to overtake justice system by the PiS" .
whole 3 people attended this war against Kaminski unleashed by mighty PO
wpolityce.pl/polityka/273011-zalosny-protest-mlodziezowki-platformy-twitter-ma-ubaw-o-matko-co-za-dziadostwo-trzyosobowy-tlum-sie-zebral
HenryS
25 Nov 2015 #212
Oh, yes ! Poland corruption has to be taken seriously by the present justice system!
Please read the link below. If you need translation, you can use a translator on line...

naszapolska.pl/index.php/categories/polska/18172-rzeczpospolita-skorumpowana
Harry
25 Nov 2015 #213
Poland corruption has to be taken seriously by the present justice system!

How does your statement gel with the clear willingness of the 'President' of Poland to issue blank pardons to anybody his boss tells him to issue them to?
HenryS
25 Nov 2015 #214
Crimes of PZPR, SLD, PO and PSL are so great that it would be very hard by the justice system to digest. Maybe they should do the same as it was done to PZPR; - call of the following parties as a criminal organizations and to pursue in the legal actions...

"not" was omitted , so it should be: "and not to pursue in the legal actions..."
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Nov 2015 #215
How does your statement gel with the clear willingness of the 'President' of Poland to issue blank pardons to anybody his boss tells him to issue them to?

Yes, I wonder how his statement reconciles with the criminal at the heart of the PiS government.

It seems to me that it's just an old Soviet tactic - when someone points out your crimes, you just shout loudly about everyone else. "Western Betrayal" was a textbook example in Poland and Czechoslovakia.
HenryS
25 Nov 2015 #216
It seems to me that it's just an old Soviet tactic

You are either too young or not too smart, if you do not know the old Soviet tactic...
In Soviet era all party leaders were criminals and there was no room for honest people, because the honest people you can not control and extortion won't work. If that politician oppose to the party leader, in any issue, they bring against him/her charges they knew from the beginning. That way worked also PZPR, PSL, PO and PSL. Also they point out the imaginary crimes against the opposition, just before election, knowing that after the election the charges would have to be dropped anyway, like against PiS 's (at that time) Ziobro. Now PO did the same made some bogus "revelations" just before election, against somebody who really was fighting real crimes before (like Ziobro) and Komorowski

issue blank pardons

to real criminals - his friend, before election, because he knew (that after they would lose the election) they would have to serve the justice. Kwasniewski was from that old Soviet regime and perfected that tactic, issued the record pardons for real criminals, but Komorowski even outperformed him. The latest pardon (after the election) is just dropping the bogus accusations, made for the political reason, by the opposition, just before the election.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Nov 2015 #217
The latest pardon (after the election) is just dropping the bogus accusations

If they are "bogus", then why not allow the legal process to take the natural course?

The pardon confirms that Kamiński is a criminal.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Nov 2015 #218
criminal

Some PO criminals prefer to take a powder before the iron fist of justice clamps down upon them. Just today CBA head Wojtunik, who was involved in the PO's now legendary tape scandal, voluntarily handed in his resignation apparently to avert a full-blown investigation into his misdeeds. Tusk high-tailed it off the Brussels when things got hot in Warsaw. However calls for him to face the State Tribunal are all over today's media. Who knows if he won't be extradited back to Poland to face the music?
HenryS
25 Nov 2015 #219
Translation:
Adam Lipinski in Super Expresie said: "Tusk has a lot of conscience! - Just mention even putting investigations of Smoleńsk tragedy to Russia. It would have to be put before the Tribunal of State. ". I would add also: not providing security to the President and sending people, "who had to die" in another aircraft, which by the way was renovated (read prepared for assassination) to the Russkies. Not to speak about putting his hands in handling Polish interest into foreign countries (such as banks), disposal shipyards and mining companies for warm office in Brussels. This is treason and the betrayal of nation!

The pardon confirms that Kamiński is a criminal.

Definitely not! Like in Ziobro's case, that would take lots of months , if not years (with all the appeals), but the reason for PO's action is so clear - it would take him from politics for a while and that is, what was the PO' reason in the first place.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
25 Nov 2015 #220
Definitely yes. As Duda said in 2011, a person pardoned is still a criminal in the eyes of the law. As he has a doctorate in law, I trust his opinion.
HenryS
26 Nov 2015 #221
Polonius3 - PO and PSL and crime

thank you for the links (first did not worked)...

All crimes in one :
markd.pl/afery_po.pdf
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Nov 2015 #222
in the eyes of the law

Regardless of what someone cares to call it, under the law a pardon or clemency enables a person to hold every public office. So why all the nitpicking? Oh, sorry, I almost forgot, Nitipicking is among the things the 4Bs are all about. Their other favourite pastimes include mud-slinging and badmouthing Polish patriots and other respected public figures, Poland's moral values and cultural heritage. And hey, there ain't no law agaisnt it, so badmouth away to your dirty little heart's conent!
HenryS
27 Nov 2015 #223
So what was missing from Polish President residencies when past president Komorowski left the office?

wpolityce.pl/polityka/272739-co-zniknelo-wraz-z-komorowskim-kiedy-terrorysci-uderza-w-polsce-polecamy-nowe-wydanie-tygodnika-abc
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Nov 2015 #224
"Tusk has a lot of conscience!

That would mean he is a "człowiek sumienia". I think you had wanted to say: "Tusk has a lot on his conscience!
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
27 Nov 2015 #225
Regardless of what someone cares to call it, under the law a pardon or clemency enables a person to hold every public office.

Indeed. No-one is disputing that.

But as Duda said in 2011, that person is still guilty.
Borsukrates
27 Nov 2015 #226
The difference between PO and PiS is that PO didn't claim to be paragon of virtues. PiS pretends to intitiate a "moral revolution". The party's name means "law and justice". That's only one step from "the lawful and just ones". In other words PiS thinks it has a moral high ground. And naturally, because there's only one lawful and just party, everyone else isn't just and lawful. This explains why PiS politicians look so stuck-up. Just look at faces of Duda, Kaczyński, Gliński, Macierewicz...

So when a party thinks it's lawful and just, and it has a majority in Sejm, and its high profile members are actually at odds with law - this sets a very bad precedent. A fish always rots from the head. Other members of government, even outside PiS, are going to look at them and copy their behaviour.

A few days ago I saw the movie "Good Night and Good Luck". It's about US in the era of Joseph McCarthy. It's scary how much it has in common with Poland. McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason without proper regard for evidence. It also means "the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
27 Nov 2015 #227
The difference between PO and PiS is that PO didn't claim to be paragon of virtues.

No, the main difference is that PO wants to be in powers for its perks and to hire they friends whereas PiS what to strengthen Polish state.

that person is still guilty.

Nonsense delph!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Nov 2015 #228
Duda, Kaczyński, Gliński, Macierewicz

Still better to look at than shifty-eyed Tusk, two-faced Sikorski, squinty Kopacz and crafty Schetyna... The only exception is Mucha.

Yes, there were abuses during MacCarthyism but let's not forget what was happening behind the iron curtain at that time and how the US was being infiltrated by spies and fellow travellers. Judaeo-Commie Hollywood has tried to make marytrs of the Rosenbergs, Chaplain and others and to villify McCarthy, and that narrative has been propagated by the leftstream media. But the drastic threats of that period (to mention only Soviet GRU agent Alger Hiss in the US State Dept) required drastic counter-measures. It was comparable to the current ISIS threat.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
27 Nov 2015 #229
No, the main difference is that PO wants to be in powers for its perks and to hire they friends whereas PiS what to strengthen Polish state.

Hahahaha. Please, Ironside, you're killing me :D Kaczyński even filled Duda's chancellery with his loyalists.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Nov 2015 #230
loyalists

Every sensible politician prefers working with associates he knows and can rely on than picking random appointees off the streets. Name any party (may only Kukiz becuase he lacks the poltical savvy) that prefers a motley ragtag crew to people of proven worth and commitment.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
28 Nov 2015 #231
Well, let's look at successful countries. You'll find that there's always a neutral civil service behind their success - and that many positions of importance are held by people who are loyal to the country and not to the party. It's commonly said that the one thing holding Poland back is this lack of an objective civil service - people at all levels of government are being hired and dismissed not because of their capabilities, but rather their political allegiances. It's a stupid way to do things.

Imagine, just imagine if PiS had declared that there would be open recruitment processes for all the jobs that they control, and that the recruitment process would be conducted by experts from the private sector? Their approval ratings would go through the roof, and PO would be left utterly helpless as they couldn't argue that PiS were about nepotism. Sadly, PiS have just followed the same old path, which means that when the government next changes, we have to suffer more upheaval and trouble.

Look at your own civil service Polonius - isn't it something to be proud of? Your country works for the benefit of the country, not for short term individuals that will be here today and gone tomorrow.

Oh, this is just getting better and better with every passing day. I thought PiS wouldn't be so unbelievably retarded in the first few months, but...

Daniel Obajtek was appointed by the head of the government to lead the Agency for Restructuring and Modernisation of Agriculture. The problem is that the former Mayor of Pcim is accused of corruption and fraud.

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,19259261,nastepca-prezesa-arimr-jest-oskarzony-o-korupcje-i-oszustwo.html

So yet again, we can see that PiS and crime are going together very well indeed.

Hopefully Duda will pardon this one as well, just to confirm his guilt.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
28 Nov 2015 #232
I thought PiS wouldn't be so unbelievably retarded in the first few months, but...

retarded as hell...what the fok are they thinking?i dont understand politicians sometimes.gobsmacked
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Nov 2015 #233
successful countries

The US is notorious for its winner-take-all approach to cabinet and administration forming. The cushy, prestigious posts including attractive ambassadorships go to trusted party loyalists and/or generous campaign contributors.

PO didn't claim to be paragon of virtues

How could they that band of thieves and scammers?!
Borsukrates
28 Nov 2015 #234
How could they that band of thieves and scammers?!

At least PO had the decency of doing that in secret, hiding it from public eye. They had shame. PiS just says there's nothing wrong in that. They're setting a very bad example for others to follow.

Half of your justifications of PiS on this forum is: "Everyone is doing that". But PiS was supposed to be better, to be the Good Change. So what's the point of having PiS in charge if they're using similar tactics, only with more arrogance ?

-------------
Case in point: Konrad Tomaszewski, recently appointed as the chief of Lasy Państwowe (State Forests). Education: visual artist.

A distant relative of Jarosław Kaczyński. You might laugh at that, but Konrad's cousin - Jan Maria, made headlines during previous PiS rule. Jan Maria got 3 positions - in TVP, Warszawskie Wodociągi (Warsaw Waterpipes), and PKN Orlen (petrol industry).

He was a chief of Lasy Państwowe during the rule of AWS-UW (1997-2001). He was appointed by Jan Szyszko, who was the minister of Environment back then, not just today.

During those years, under the management of Konrad Tomaszewski, for the first time in several decades of its existence, Lasy Państwowe became indebted. Almost for 90,000,000 PLN. So he sold shares of Bank Ochrony Środowiska, a bank specialized in protection of Polish forests. He also sold shares of Paged (a famous polish company selling wood) to YAWAL. Lasy Państwowe suffered great financial losses as the result, and YAWAL discontinued the wood industry (it deals in construction scaffolding).

For details about the disastrous mismanagement, read "Bilans Otwarcia" by the new chief Janusz Dawidziak.

He also traded some poor land with MSBE for land in Gdańsk Matemblewo. MSBE then built luxury houses on that land in Gdańsk. Polish treasury lost about 800,000 PLN on that deal, Tomaszewski and Marian K. had a trial, Tomaszewski risked 10 years in jail but wasn't found guilty.

He was also accused of document forgery.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Nov 2015 #235
also accused

And you are accused of mindless, chronic PiS-bashing. Rather than think in terms of the country you have joiend the embittered, frustrarted and resentful Platformer mudslinging and backstabbing team whose only goal is the discredit and badmouth the party they lost to. Somehow you were strangely silent when the PO thieves were at the feed trough.

At least the new state forest bloke has had experuience in that area. Even if he hadn't, a minister is surrounded by experts and advisers and does not need to hold a PhD in the field his ministry specialises in.
Borsukrates
28 Nov 2015 #236
And you are accused of mindless, chronic PiS-bashing

How is my criticism mindless ?. I'm doing Poland a favor by clearing it of such scum. Half of PiS officials are clueless and incompetent for their posts, the other half have criminal charges. And that's easy to prove! I point out how morally bankrupt PiS is. Once more people realize that, they won't vote for PiS anymore.

Stańczyk was one of Poland's biggest patriots.

Edmund Janniger has became an official advisor for Antoni Macierewicz, the minister of Defense. He is credited for his 6 month practice in Macierewicz's office, organizing meetings with politicians, and making many selfies with Macierewicz. He is 20 years old.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
28 Nov 2015 #237
How is my criticism mindless ?

Pawi, it's mindless because we are 4 weeks after elections and 2 weeks since the new gov has started working. We need at least 1 year before any serious preliminary assessment is possible.
Harry
28 Nov 2015 #238
2 weeks since the new gov has started working.

Two weeks, multiple criminals as ministers, criticism from multiple human rights organizations, intimidation of state media, appointment of entirely unqualified advisors, appointment of paedophile-defending commie oppressors, nepotistic appointments, etc, etc.

All in two weeks. What will PIS manage in a whole year?!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
28 Nov 2015 #239
criticism from multiple human rights organizations

LOL !
Borsukrates
28 Nov 2015 #240
Platformer mudslingin

It's amusing that anyone who criticizes PiS is automatically a PO supporter in your eyes. Is that how PiS supporters think ? Do they need an enemy to fuel their hate ?

Your tragedy is that you're soon going to see multiple PO members join PiS. And they're going to the the most worthless people, turncoats without any beliefs, only good for the "party discipline". This is how Dear Leader Kaczyński works - he exploits internal conflict, and extracts members from other parties. Tusk, like Kaczyński, liked to eliminate any charismatic and industrious people from his party to preserve his own absolute control. The only reason it's not working anymore is that Merkel shot herself in the foot by pulling Tusk to Brussels, leading PO leaderless. So internal conflict is brewing in PO, PO is stuffed with submissive Sejm members, just the kind Kaczyński likes. He isn't above creating new offices or commissions just to accomodate them.

Yes, I was strangely silent because I didn't know about this forum.

At least the new state forest bloke has had experuience in that area.

Not all experience is positive ! Some is just bad habit.

I think you underestimate how very important forests are for Poland. Poland has very low supply of freshwater. One of the lowest in Europe. Without water, it can't be a strong, populated country. Even if PiS found enough money for the "500 per child" program, it would work for long because of this limit.

There are two things that can be done:
1 Saving water
2 Planting forests

Saving water needs good education and a paradigm shift in thinking. Like Sweden, switch from bathtubs to showers. Don't flush toilets with clean water. Store rain in tanks to water gardens. But Poland is horrifically clueless when it comes to ecology and renewable resources. PiS advocates burning lignite (a.k.a. brown coal) in power plants, because it's very cheap and Poland has lots of it. But here's a thing: coal power plants cause lots of air pollution, which leads to diseases. Poland already has very polluted air compared to other European countries. Cheaper energy, more money needs to be spent on healthcare. PiS politicians also like to say Poland is not the problem, because majority of CO2 comes from developing countries. This gives those countries an excuse - why should we care about environment if Poland is not doing it ? Long story short - with this kind of thinking Poland is not becoming an environmentally conscious state any time soon.

This leaves forests. Forests hold water, and the land becomes more humid. So why exactly is PiS appointing a borderline criminally incompetent person as a chief of state forests ?


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