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New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ...


Chemikiem 5 | 1,172    
10 May 2016  #151
drunk petty criminal with a buddy bloodied a nose of some Syrian (Christian) who lived in Poland for years, aasutlant get served what they deserved for their criminal behavior and that is end of story.

Unfortunately though, that was not an isolated case:-

theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/29/christiano-ramos-poland-chilean-pianist-beaten-arab-concert

independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/british-sikh-punched-and-called-a-terrorist-by-polish-club-bouncer-a6760411.html

These type of assaults are on the increase, and businesses are also being targeted:-

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/231409,Four-arrested-over-attack-on-Arab-restaurants-in-Gdansk

In Poland the police and courts need only to step up and implement existing laws, no need for a special measures, no one should get away with assaulting people for whatever reason bar self-defense.

Hmm, if you read the case of how the British Sikh was treated by the police, I would beg to differ. Maybe special measures are exactly what is needed.

Many here will probably argue that if you look 'different' ( dark skinned ), then Poland shouldn't be top on your list of holiday destinations, but I wonder how long it will be before e.g Spaniards or Italians are attacked just because their skin is darker and they are accidentally mistaken for being Muslim. Apart from the human rights ombudsman, the Mayor of Tourism also opposed this council being scrapped, and it's not exactly difficult to figure out why.

Of course attacks like this are nowhere near as common as in other countries, but the fact that they are on the increase is worrying.

Poland is a beautiful country which everyone should be free to visit. It's just a shame that a few with a knucklehead mentality intent on causing trouble ( every country has them ), give totally the wrong impression of it.
Honest Pole    
10 May 2016  #152
Of course attacks like this are nowhere near as common as in other countries

In which european countries they are even more common?
nothanks - | 667    
10 May 2016  #153
To be fair I wouldn't want the number of such attacks to drop to 0. Poland has a certain reputation (I've been in random physical altercations too) and it keeps people in their place. Kinda silly discussion considering a man was just stabbed to death on Munich subway by "a German national" (poor integration?) screaming Allah akbar. An Israeli style attack that is beginning to become a regular occurrence in not just Western Europe but specific nations.
Honest Pole    
10 May 2016  #154
An Israeli style attack

?
nothanks - | 667    
10 May 2016  #155
Random stabbings against Iaraelis. This crisis is making many people sympathetic to Israel and it's Wall
Honest Pole    
10 May 2016  #156
Well they are under occupation, poles were a long time ago too and were killing germans and russians.
By they way that knife attack seems to have been done by radicalized german neophyte.

Hmm other site is saying he real name was Rafik Youssef so may have been a tunisian after all.

No seems to be a german junkie.
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
10 May 2016  #157
Unfortunately though, that was not an isolated case:-

I never claimed that it was and If I have give an impression that I did, I apologize. Yes, I'm not denying that the last decade or so have seen anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiment on a rise in Poland but also across the world.

My point is that instead of creating special task forces, political bodies or specific laws to combat crimes against people that stem from these sentiments. It is quite enough to implement those laws that already exist.

If somebody is assaulted that the aggressive party should be deal with swiftly, justly and severely regardless of their and their victim gender, race, ethnicity or skin color. That is only fair and justice and that is real equality.

The law need to be impartial. Sure some people aren't and justice is not always served due to human flaws but that is the way of things and there is nothing either you or I nor can do about it.

I tell you want happens when laws are being tempered with and special bodies created to "protect" minorities, people of color and so forth, injustices are still out there but those "protected" are being treated differently than others, with a kid gloves, officials, policemen are not rather let an assailant go or punish unjustly someone because he is white than deal with accusation of racism as you have been witnessed recently in your country.

What more majority is getting to their head that its them that are being discriminated against and instead of wining their hearth and minds, combating racism and xenophobia you are sweeping problems under the carpet.

While resentments are growing and growing and in the end your "special measures" are creating more racism, xenophobia, prejudices and resentment.
The only difference is that people are not open about their views, they are wary of the consequences of openly speaking their mind and some people take it as a sing that racism or xenophobia is on a wane. Rather foolishly I might add.

I'm not aiming at condoling or excusing any criminal behavior of the unruly elements of the society in Poland. There are always some people that are like that and every society out there has them. There are always some criminal or otherwise unruly boys in their 20' in flocks acting like fools.

Saying all that I must add:
I don't know the details but that Ramon case could be the wrong time and place issue. Some local trains abound Warsaw are not that save, plenty of unsavory people living in some or other areas and some are more prone to attack people on the train, especially when there is less people around - in my mind it could have been anyone, they/or he just picked on him.

Think is he is looking young, a young ~(or looking young) males are more prone to be targeted.
So whoever goes there on a local train services around Warsaw - just don't travel alone, at night time, make sure there are people around in a car. Just as a general precaution.

Saying all that bear in mind that you are still LESS LIKLY to be attacked than in the most major cities of Europe or America.

the British Sikh was treated by the police,

I disagree, as I'm reading what the police in Poland (I don't think much about their professionalism by the way)told him, to my mind that sounded like an advice - listen in Poland you cannot count on the same attitude to you as you are used to in your country, i.e. if you think that you can insists on doing something just because your are black or Sikh you will land yourself in the heap of trouble and we won't be able to help you.

Security people in Poland are overtly aggresse types and much can be said about their firm and bosses who are mostly former commie secret people characters.

However I as read that circumstances he has been denied an entry to the club, admittedly on a whim of the bouncer, but that is the way it is. He might not like it, he might not agree with it, he could have been even angry but he as well as a Polish person in his stead had a choice - he could have just walk away or get himself into brawl.

Lecturing bouncer, trying to shake his hands, those guys are buzzed up already and he read it all as an act of an aggression by a turbaned Arab. (for most people a Turban equal an Arab equal Muslim)

I his home town UK, a white bouncer would think twice about punching a back person but in Poland such an attitude doesn't take you far. As that Shih found out the hard way.

(By the way I came across one or two Shih in the course of my adventurous life and they came across as annoying, seems like that attitude we are better than you is oozing through the pores of their skin even if their are courageous enough. Well, I could be wrong err is human. No matter that was me going off the topic here.)

So far, to my mind the only attack of any real significance was on the restaurant when some really bored couple of boys with too much on their hands went viral and will pay for that.

That all tell you that mass media are opium for masses. :)
All the best
nickknock - | 19    
10 May 2016  #158
If one thinks the British or Germans are so open. Look where they live. No where near the immigrants, unless they have to.
nothanks - | 667    
10 May 2016  #159
^ great point. Americans are so open. Sure because Immigrants have to board a plane and be screened to arrive
johnny reb 16 | 3,274    
11 May 2016  #160
Americans are so open. Sure because Immigrants have to board a plane and be screened to arrive

How about the thousands that have been brought in at night to military bases that are kept from the media's eyes.
Our Muslim president just o.k.'d for them to have full blown H.I.V. to enter the U.S.
Another huge expense for care by the American tax payers with monies that should be spent on our Vet's instead.
That is why Poland is an oasis for common sense.
They see the consequences of Liberal countries having their cultures being destroyed by stupidity.
Chemikiem 5 | 1,172    
11 May 2016  #161
If somebody is assaulted that the aggressive party should be deal with swiftly, justly and severely regardless of their and their victim gender, race, ethnicity or skin color.

In theory yes, but in the case of the British Sikh who was punched by the nightclub bouncer, the police refused to arrest the bouncer because his victim wasn't actually bleeding. What sort of message does that give out? That it was the victims fault he got punched in the face? Or that if you are unfortunate enough to be the victim of an assault, don't expect the police to help you?

The law need to be impartial. Sure some people aren't and justice is not always served due to human flaws

Maybe the reaction of the police in the particular incident described above is atypical, but if it isn't, then yes, I think that councils such as the one to be scrapped, need to stay. No-one deserves to go to Poland for a holiday, find themselves to be a victim of assault, only for the police to do absolutely nothing. And it was a racial attack.

injustices are still out there but those "protected" are being treated differently than others,

You might well see it that way, but maybe they need to be, because those 'victims' are being treated differently than other victims. They are being attacked solely because of the colour of their skin.

I'm not aiming at condoling or excusing any criminal behavior of the unruly elements of the society in Poland. There are always some people that are like that and every society out there has them.

This I agree with as I said in my earlier post, I am in no way suggesting that this behaviour occurs only in Poland. Unfortunately there are ignorant idiots everywhere.

in my mind it could have been anyone, they/or he just picked on him.

It was a bunch of skinheads who attacked that Chilean pianist, and they picked on him specifically because they thought he looked Arabic. Ok, yes, he was definitely in the wrong place at the wrong time, but again, his colour was the problem.

Saying all that bear in mind that you are still LESS LIKLY to be attacked than in the most major cities of Europe or America.

I agree, but I don't think that the authorities can afford to ignore the negative press attacks like these are receiving. At the very least, it is going to damage the tourism industry. People from many European countries are dark skinned, reporting of attacks like these is going to put people off going to Poland for a holiday. Or at least make them think twice, and choose somewhere else instead.

what the police in Poland (I don't think much about their professionalism by the way)told him, to my mind that sounded like an advice - listen in Poland you cannot count on the same attitude to you as you are used to in your country,

It may well have been meant as advice, but in my opinion that attitude stinks Iron. What that basically says to me is that " you're dark skinned, if you have any sort of problem in Poland, we won't treat you the same because you're not white "

What the police actually said to that Sikh was " Don't expect the same treatment of brown and white people as in the UK".

While that statement might well be true, don't you think that

If somebody is assaulted that the aggressive party should be deal with swiftly, justly and severely regardless of their and their victim gender, race, ethnicity or skin color. That is only fair and justice and that is real equality.

should apply?

So far, to my mind the only attack of any real significance was on the restaurant when some really bored couple of boys with too much on their hands went viral and will pay for that.

So what are you saying Iron? That the destruction of property is a worse crime than people being attacked and beaten?
Sorry but I can't agree with that!!

All the best

Ditto!
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,181    
11 May 2016  #162
british-sikh-punched-and-called-a-terrorist-by-polish-club-bouncer

Do you realize that each weekend at least hundreds of people are punched by a bouncer in Poland ? It's not a place where bouncers are nice. Most of such cases include some nightlife situations, a brown dude buy 2 drinks too much, start behaving like a big jollero, get a punch and then comes "Racists !!!!". I could bet a lot that the police part was made up.
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
11 May 2016  #163
In theory yes, but in the case of the British Sikh who was punched by the nightclub bouncer, the police refused to arrest the bouncer because his victim wasn't actually bleeding.

I suspect that it was because owner of the security company that the bouncers was working for has some connection with the police i.e. he was a retried policeman or one that employ policemen in his company or both.

Also it might be to due to the fact that in Poland there is no hate crime laws (as for as I'm aware) and the fact that he was just punched and by the bouncer didn't bode well for the success of the persecution .... Meaning he would be out in no time at all.

After all he was a bouncer and they are given some leeway in using force against people who what to enter a private club without their consent...

What sort of message does that give out?

Don't argue with a bouncer?

That it was the victims fault he got punched in the face?

In this case I cannot agree with your point of view, he got punched in the face because he was arguing with that bouncer - that plain and simple to see! If a Pole would have had acted as he he would be punched in the face as well.

Or that if you are unfortunate enough to be the victim of an assault, don't expect the police to help you?

Help him with what>? Racist attack? That clearly wasn't that. Bouncer barred him from entry and he was trying to shake his hand, touched him maybe, it could be interpreted as an assault, even if the police would arrest him and persecute him he would have been found no guilty or would has to pay a very small fee.

Yes, the reason he was barred from entering the club was racist. However he was punched because he foolishly believed that by playing the race card he can gain an entry to the club and that was his mistake.

No-one deserves to go to Poland for a holiday, find themselves to be a victim of assault, only for the police to do absolutely nothing

Chemikiem no-one deserves to be a victim of an assault - period.
However as speaking form experience those bouncers, not only in Poland are swift to react, and they not hold back, thing is they have right to do it if you don't listen to them, if they say - you're leaving now mate, you better listen or they'll kick you out.

Maybe owner of those clubs should step up and upgrade their security if they want foreign guests in their establishment.

You might well see it that way, but maybe they need to be, because those 'victims' are being treated differently than other victims.

No, they don't need to be as I have already explained to you. As long as they're attacked and assaulted the same law should apply to all cases. Of course all evidence of each and every case should be closely examined.

People are being attacked for being different by all kind of people all over the world. Civilized country should treat those attacks in the same way, impartially. If you say that one kind of motivation for assaulting people are worse than other you are saying that same people are being privileged, you are creating resentments and turning clock back to the middle ages.

It was a bunch of skinheads who attacked that Chilean pianist, and they picked on him specifically because they thought he looked Arabic

Hmm... I would go at the wrong time and place. Also him looking youngish played part. His doesn't look Arabic, he look different and this kind of scum prey on that. In the time past I have been attacked because I have been wearing a characteristic hat.

I agree, but I don't think that the authorities can afford to ignore the negative press attacks like these are receiving

See, part of the press in Poland is using those few incidents in their political warfare against their political opponents. Hence such seldom occurrences are getting a lot of coverage in the western press.

Sure, but a guilty party is being punished as far as I know and that is that.
I don't think that going on the path of legislation with that silly and backwards "hate crime" and "color first" legislation would do much good.

I would rather that penalty for an assault would be more severe and treated more seriously - that should do the trick.

you're dark skinned, if you have any sort of problem in Poland, we won't treat you the same because you're not white "

On the contrary Chemikiem, he said " that fact that you're dark skinned will not give you any sort privileges that you're used to in your country"

If a Pole would be in his stead he wouldn't fare any better, oh yes he might be not singled out by the bouncer but if he would and stared to remonstrate he would be for the same treatment.

So what are you saying Iron? That the destruction of property is a worse crime than people being attacked and beaten?

No, but the first two examples were just random occurrences that could chance on anyone, especially with that Shih who could have walked away from the trouble.

Whereas in the case of the restaurant that was premeditated attack, that was planed and that prove a malicious intent not only scummy company. To my mind that is much worse as those boys could be the real racist not just gutter scum.

That is if they haven't been paid by the competition to do that.

As always all the best - I enjoy debates with you :)

I could bet a lot that the police part was made up.

You could be well right on the other hand - you could be wrong. :)
Chemikiem 5 | 1,172    
11 May 2016  #164
it might be to due to the fact that in Poland there is no hate crime laws and the fact that he was just punched and by the bouncer didn't bode well for the success of the persecution

I don't know enough about the Polish court system to comment to be honest. In the UK, the Crown Prosecution Service decide if a case goes to trial, and that is based on if they think there is a good chance of the person/persons being convicted of a crime.

You might well be right, but would he have been arrested even if the victim had been bleeding? Or if he had sustained more severe injuries? Makes you wonder.

What about witnesses, people stopped to help him, would they not have been called to give evidence at a trial? Or am I asking a stupid question here?

he got punched in the face because he was arguing with that bouncer

He simply asked why he wasn't allowed in when all his friends had been admitted entry, I wouldn't say that was an argument. As his friends had gone on in ahead of him, I don't think that his asking why he had been denied entry is unreasonable to be honest.

Had he known that bouncers in Poland are notorious for being on the heavy handed side, maybe he wouldn't have asked, but he did nothing more than i would have done had I been in the same situation.

Have a look at this article, it explains a little more :-

standard.co.uk/news/uk/sikh-londoner-spat-on-by-polish-bouncer-at-krakow-nightclub-and-called-muslim-terrorist-a3128021.html

Help him with what

I'm afraid I'm guilty of expecting the same treatment he would have received in the UK. The police would arrive, interview both parties and any witnesses, and I would have expected the bouncer to be questioned further at a police station and possibly charged based on the evidence. But this quote was meant generally, not specific to this particular incident. When the police are called because an assault has taken place, one would generally, as a victim, expect help from them, not for them to do nothing at all!

he foolishly believed that by playing the race card he can gain an entry to the club and that was his mistake.

Come on Iron, how did he play the race card? If you read that article, the bouncer said to his friend, the problem was the dress code. His friend pointed out that they were dressed the same, and the bouncer then pointed to his turban, and said " That hat, Muslim terrorist ".

Asking why he couldn't be admitted to the club is playing the race card? Sorry, but I can't see it myself.

Maybe owner of those clubs should step up and upgrade their security if they want foreign guests in their establishment.

You know this, because you've had experience in Polish nightclubs presumably, but obviously this group didn't know what the score was, you can't blame that for that.

I don't know about upgrading their security, it's the attitude that's wrong. People like that shouldn't be employed as doormen, and the fact that the club terminated the services of their security, at least goes some way to acknowledging they were in the wrong.

As long as they're attacked and assaulted the same law should apply to all cases.

The crucial word in this sentence is 'should'.

If you say that one kind of motivation for assaulting people are worse than other you are saying that same people are being privileged

If people are assaulted based on the colour of their skin, you're saying that those people are somehow privileged? Treated differently? Well yes they are treated differently, by their attackers. They are victims of assault because someone doesn't like the colour of their skin.

Like it or not, it is different.

His doesn't look Arabic, he look different and this kind of scum prey on that. In the time past I have been attacked because I have been wearing a characteristic hat.

Exactly, and how long will it be before some Greek person or Spaniard is attacked, because they too, look a bit different.
Come on, what hat were you wearing?

On the contrary Chemikiem, he said " that fact that you're dark skinned will not give you any sort privileges that you're used to in your country"

On the contrary Iron, he said " 'what did you expect when you come to Krakow after the Paris attacks. Brown people and white people are treated differently here to in the UK'. ( That is from the article btw ).

the first two examples were just random occurrences that could chance on anyone,

Anyone who happens to look a bit different Iron.

To my mind that is much worse as those boys could be the real racist not just gutter scum.

Sorry, but destruction of property fares a lot lower on my list than physical assaults.

I enjoy debates with you :)

Give it time Iron, I'm sure that eventually you'll label me as either a 'hysterical female', or a 'libtard' ;)
J/K, nice to debate with you too :-)
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
12 May 2016  #165
Give it time Iron, I'm sure that eventually you'll label me as either a 'hysterical female', or a 'libtard' ;)

Well, IF you WOULD start labeling people,IF instead of argument you would use slogans, IF you would get hysterical only because I would point out that your argument is illogical, If you would call me a Nazi or a brown shirt, IF you would talk to me down......

Then and only then I most certainly would call you those names and then some more .....:)
If you on the other hand you'll continue to debate as you do, there is no chance in hell that I would treat you otherwise than with respect and courtesy as good manners dictate.

You might well be right, but would he have been arrested even if the victim had been bleeding? Or if he had sustained more severe injuries? Makes you wonder.

As I said I don't think highly about professionalism of the police in Poland (there is a lot to improve) but I think that they would have reacted differently if he had sustained severe injuries.

I think I need to add it - that would be the same if he was a Pole.

What about witnesses, people stopped to help him, would they not have been called to give evidence at a trial? Or am I asking a stupid question here?

You see we don't know the real circumstances of that case. We only know a one side of the story and that story altered by a journalist I'm sure.

In my understating he had a very slim change of getting the police involved, because those brawls in front of the bars, pubs, nigh clubs and whatnot are just not given a proper attention by the police, especially if a customer, a patron is accusing security guys of those establishments. Unless there are really serious injuries, they just ignore it.

Possible those people could be called as the witnesses (maybe they wouldn't want to be involved) but as far as I understand he called the police much latter or just went to the police station. You see we don't know much details.

He simply asked why he wasn't allowed in when all his friends had been admitted entry

That is what I don't understand, that doesn't make sense to me, his friends went ahead and at least one of them was Polish I gather. He should have known that Shih in Poland is an entity unknown, and that wearing that turban could cause problems for him with a bouncer, why his friends didn't wait for him, or translate for him - seems fishy to me, maybe those people weren't his real friends.

I'm afraid I'm guilty of expecting the same treatment he would have received in the UK.

This is Poland! :)
Generally, state institutions are hostile towards its citizens, and you don't call them unless you have no choice and they are not used to react to some alteration if there is not severe injuries. People expect help from their friend and immediate family, nobody else, certainly not from the police or courts.

Come on Iron, how did he play the race card?

By expecting the same treatment he was used to in the UK? No? Well, I mean to say that he could have walked away given the fact that that bouncer acted in a hostile manner. I don't know, I know that in his place I would have either walk way or ready myself for a brawl. He didn't read that situation correctly - still not his fault but those friends of his....

You know this, because you've had experience in Polish nightclubs presumably,

Not only Polish, in some part of the world they not only kick you out but strip you form all your belongings. Anyway, I have been the last time in the night club a decade ago. So, I'm not an expert but I know that security personal in Poland is not well trained or selected.

People like that shouldn't be employed as doormen,

Ditto!

If people are assaulted based on the colour of their skin, you're saying that those people are somehow privileged

I'm saying that regardless of the reason for an assault the law should treat each assault in the same way.

They are victims of assault because someone doesn't like the colour of their skin.
Like it or not, it is different.

For a philosopher! For the law there is not difference (or shouldn't be) if someone has been attacked because of the color of his skin or because he was wearing a hat.

What matters is that someone was assaulted for no justifiable reason.

Exactly, and how long will it be before some Greek person or Spaniard is attacked, because they too, look a bit different.

Well, short of hanging them by their scummy necks on the spot there is no much you can do about it. Opinion that says that a new laws will eliminate a certain kind of a crime or anti-social behavior is just an illusion.

On the other hand if that dude on the train had a gun he could have defend himself. Yes, an unrestricted access to gun ownership is the only feasible solution to that particular problem.

Come on, what hat were you wearing?

Oh that was long time ago in a certain area with a certain reputation, just a regular albeit characteristic hat.

On the contrary Iron, he said " 'what did you expect when you come to Krakow after the Paris attacks. Brown people and white people are treated differently here to in the UK'.

Well, his English wasn't obviously good and between what he said and what he meant and what that Shih understood is a big sea of we don't know - that leave us some space for an educated guess.

My guess is - 'hey what did you expect coming with a turban to Poland looking like people imagine an Arab look, after all those acts of terror people think that all Arabs are terrorists or near enough? Poland is not UK where populace is used to your strange customs and different look'.

Not very professional but that what I would expect a Polish policeman to say. It is impossible for me to imagine that he would say, 'hey Poland is a country for white people and you brown people are coming here on your own risk and peril'. In fact I don't see it at all. Lost in translation obviously.

Anyone who happens to look a bit different Iron.

Buy a gun and you can look like Obama's lookalike and be able to defend yourself.

Sorry, but destruction of property fares a lot lower on my list than physical assaults.

I thought that you from all people would like to look behind surface to search for people's INTENT! I find their intent and mindset much more chilling and disturbing (malicious) than in those other two cases. Given the fact those people are very young what else they'll come up with in the future? I just hope they'll wise up.

All the best!
AdrianK9 6 | 370    :-(
12 May 2016  #166
It is not the diversity politics that cause these issues but racist idiots who are easy to fool by politicians who can manipulate them because of their ignorance and shallow values.

Racist idiots don't blow themselves up and massacre people in Brussels and Paris - unless of course by racist idiots you're referring to extremist Muslims.

corruption is a big problem in country like Poland

Not really - corruption is far worse even in a country like Czechy.

They don't 'push' anything.

Yes they do - Jewish dems and Jewish lobbies are among the largest backers of gay marriage and gay rights - at least in the US and I'd assume it's the same in other countries too:

adl.org/civil-rights/discrimination/c/adl-and-the-lgbt-community.html.
haaretz.com/jewish/news/1.663193 - Jewish Groups Celebrate Historic U.S. Supreme Court Gay Marriage Ruling
Thirteen Jewish groups, among them organizations representing the Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative streams, were among the 25 joining the amicus brief the ADL filed in Obergefell v. Hodges.

jweekly.com/article/full/75081/bay-area-jews-celebrate-supreme-court-marriage-equality-ruling
The American Jewish Committee tweeted: "For 109 years AJC has stood for liberty and human rights.

and you silly goys thought the Jews have nothing to do with pushing gay marriage in the US

Ever heard of Machiavelli?

The Prince is one of my all time philosophy books. I'm a big fan of Descartes too. Not too big of a fan Nietzsche as I don't agree with many of his criticisms of European society although I love some of his sayings like 'The true man wants two things: danger and play' Most people thin Machiavelli was far too cruel, rationalistic, and totally lacking of emotion. If you like Machiavelli, check out a book called '48 Laws of Power' by Robert Greene

A 2013 study by the Brookings Institute found that 77% of terror attack plots in the United States were motivated by Islam. A 2015 study found that 99.5% of all suicide attacks worldwide were also motivated by Islam.

I don't think highly about professionalism of the police in Poland

Totally agree. They only waddle their butts and do something when the media or some politician gets on their case. Then they calll the media, bust some amphetamine factory that they've known about way in advance, and done deal.

Random stabbings against Iaraelis. This crisis is making many people sympathetic to Israel and it's Wall

The amount of Palestinians that the IDF has killed versus the amount of Israelis stabbed by Palestinians doesn't even compare. There's thousands of Palestinians that have died due to Israeli violence and supremacy versus a couple dozen Israelis killed by rockets, stabbings, suicide blasts, etc.

Aisha's story is not unusual in the besieged Gaza Strip, where a 51-day Israeli assault killed more than 2,200 Palestinians this summer and injured scores more. The 2014 war created more than 1,500 new orphans, in addition to tens of thousands already living in Gaza

aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/01/orphans-gaza-20151612433820289.html

Imagine if Palestine or Hezbollah created 1,000 Isreali orphans - the whole world would invade the west bank or Lebanon.

Check the facts before you criticize the Palestinians as the aggressors - they are resisting an occupation - just like Poland did during WW2.
jon357 65 | 13,567    
13 May 2016  #167
in the United States

Who cares? That's a different continent, different culture.
dolnoslask 5 | 1,980    
13 May 2016  #168
More Reports

Poland among the 'worst EU countries to be gay in'

thenews.pl/1/11/Artykul/252520,Poland-among-the-%E2%80%98worst-EU-countries-to-be-gay-in%E2%80%99
nothanks - | 667    
13 May 2016  #169
Degenerate Civilization


  • Target in USA
Crow 143 | 7,293    
13 May 2016  #170
when i see all this lunacy in Europe, i am more and more curious when would Duda finally make a drastic and open move in direction of Intermarium and not just to speak of it, as he announced. Obviously, there are clear evidences that countries like Poland, Hungary, Serbia, Slovakia, Czeska, Greece, ... some more countries, have less and less in common with western Europe, as they also differ from Russia. So, we should have our own way, our own evolution of social, political and economical life. Let others have their way
Dougpol1 25 | 2,000    
13 May 2016  #171
we should have our own way, our own evolution of social, political and economical life

Your usual self- serving nonsense Crow:)

In modern times, Poland has always been a central Europe country in spite of those Soviets' best efforts to entrap her in Eastern Europe. Poland is in fact aligned to Western Europe, socially and politically, and that is where she shall remain.

Sorry to break that axiomatic fact to you.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
13 May 2016  #172
Obviously, there are clear evidences that countries like Poland, Hungary, Serbia, Slovakia, Czeska, Greece, ... some more countries, have less and less in common with western Europe, as they also differ from Russia.

This is it! This concept is quite old and goes back to mediaeval ages. The weak point is that there are so many nations and relatively small coutries in that area, so they are a natural area for the domination of Russia or Germany.

If in the past the Polabian Slavs formed a unified country, the history of Central and Eastern Europe could have been very different. The three countries of Western Slavs: Poland, Czechia and Polabia would have been a real stronghold agaisnt the German "Drang nach Osten". The Polabian Slavs were military very strong and only in the result of united efforts of several Western countries they were finally defeated.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
13 May 2016  #173
Your usual self- serving nonsense Crow:)

when it comes from you it sound as compliment

In modern times, Poland has always been a central Europe country in spite of those Soviets' best efforts to entrap her in Eastern Europe.

Communism-Socialism was invented in Germany and then planted as Soviet experiment in Russia.

And yes, Poland was always central Europe, same as Serbia and BDW, medieval golden age in Poland wasn`t triggered thanks to western Europe but thanks to Serbian influence (cultural, military). At that time, western Europe was rather focused on Drang Nach Osten and wanted extinction of Poles. Only after Grunwald (where Poles applied Serbian military cavalry doctrine), western Europe learned to respect Poland, at least for few decades.

Poland is in fact aligned to Western Europe, socially and politically, and that is where she shall remain.

Poland would be aligned with its own interests and its in best Serbian interests, too.

Sorry to break that axiomatic fact to you.

actually, you are the one here full of prejudices.

The weak point is that there are so many nations and relatively small coutries in that area, so they are a natural area for the domination of Russia or Germany.

i don`t accept such a ``weak point``. Look USA, Russia, EU, Canada, China, Japan, Germany, etc. How many different regions and countries there in one system. Sure, EU is failure and Intermarium needs to take good from that example and to avoid mistakes.

Plus, Germany and Russia won`t dominate. Believe me, Germany would hold its fingers far from us. Even their control of greater deal of Adriatic is now questioned with Vatican`s-Serbian-Russian agreements (among else, to end Greater Croatian [ie German] yoke over Catholic Serbs).

Anyway, Serbian deal with Russians (and China, India and Brazil) is our support to multi-polar world and neutrality. Rest is up to us and, for obvious reasons multi-polar world is in our own interest, too. Military neutrality, too. So, Serbia have good relations with Russia and moving closer and closer to countries that are members of Visegrad Group, which is in fact embryo of Intermarium. Serbia don`t care much for membership in EU. In reality, it is EU who worry of Serbian influence on Visegrad and that is why western Europe wants us within EU, to control us, as they hope to be possible but was always historically impossible.
Chemikiem 5 | 1,172    
14 May 2016  #174
IF you would talk to me down......

I was joking Iron, well half anyway ;)
I have a tendency to treat people how they treat me. I have no reason to disrespect you, we are having a nice little debate as it should be. I might not agree with everything you say, and I'm sure you don't agree with all my views either, but generally I am only ever rude to those people who deserve it or can't have a discussion without losing their rag.

as far as I understand he called the police much latter or just went to the police station.

I have read a few reports of the case, and he called the police who arrived half an hour later.

his friends went ahead and at least one of them was Polish I gather.

I don't think any of them were Polish. He went on holiday with a friend whose nationality wasn't specified, and met up with some Brits while he was there and they all decided to have a night out at a club. It probably didn't occur to any of them that his turban might have caused a problem. Apparently, it wasn't his first trip to Poland, so presumably he hadn't had a problem before and therefore didn't expect any trouble this time.

From the IBTimes, this statement sums up what the police thought :-

"The police officers did tell me that white and brown people in Poland are different," Sawhney told IBTimes UK. "They also told me that I should have thought about the attacks committed in Paris before I chose to come to Poland. People are angry, they said - aggression towards you is to be expected."

Seems to be largely ignorance on the part of the police as far as I can see. They presumed him to be Muslim when he wasn't.

People expect help from their friend and immediate family, nobody else, certainly not from the police

So generally speaking the police should only be called if an attack results in severe injuries then? From what you were saying earlier, the police tend to ignore brawls outside nightclubs if there are no real injuries. Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the role of the police is to protect and serve the public? I know, this is Poland and not the UK, but I thought similar principles would apply.

I know that in his place I would have either walk way or ready myself for a brawl. He didn't read that situation correctly - still not his fault

You know the score, and yes, the only thing he was guilty of was not knowing how things are in Poland, but being a foreigner how could he?

For the law there is not difference (or shouldn't be) if someone has been attacked because of the color of his skin or because he was wearing a hat.

In an ideal world maybe.
Again I am looking at this from the perspective of someone born in the UK, and yes it is different because the UK is very multicultural in comparison to Poland, and there is far more racially motivated crime in my country. Attitudes of Polish police, at least regarding this particular case, seem similar to those of the police in the UK back in the seventies and eighties. Back then, institutional racism was rife within the police. Things had to change, because there was a real problem with how ethnic minorities were treated by the police which couldn't be ignored.

Poland doesn't have exactly the same problem because there is less diversity in the country, but as the Human Rights Ombudsman for Poland points out, racially motivated crime is increasing, and to scrap the anti-discrimination council at a time when this is happening seems less than sensible. If, as he says, that on average there are beatings on the ground of race every week or two, then this suggests there is a real problem. You have to look at it in the context of other crimes. If beatings like this are occurring more often than beatings for wearing the wrong hat, or by those types of thugs that look for trouble after football matches, then I think these type of crimes have to be treated differently, because they ARE different.

It is impossible for me to imagine that he would say, 'hey Poland is a country for white people and you brown people are coming here on your own risk and peril'

From the ibtimes statement I mentioned earlier, I don't think this is too wide of the mark at all......aggression towards you is to be expected, is what was mentioned.

I am not saying that all Polish police have this attitude either. Maybe he would have been treated differently if he had been attacked somewhere else. Police are people after all, and some are going to be better at their job than others.

Buy a gun

I'm not going there! The very last thing Poland needs is the problem the US has. Violence only ever breeds more violence.

I find their intent and mindset much more chilling and disturbing (malicious) than in those other two cases.

I can see what you're saying and yes, I will concede that you have a point here. Crimes like this need to be nipped in the bud before they become commonplace.

All the best!!
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
14 May 2016  #175
So, Serbia have good relations with Russia and moving closer and closer to countries that are members of Visegrad Group, which is in fact embryo of Intermarium.

Crow get into your head that Russia as is now and in the foreseeable future will not support any kind of concept that would or could constitute a base for creating Intermarium. They would readily abort such an embryo than not. The only concept Russia would embrace would be a shell of Intermanrum but in fact Russian dominium, as it used to be for Soviet Union.

You seemingly are unable to grasp what that Intermarium concept is all about but rest easy that Russians are not that slow.

back on topic please

I was joking Iron, well half anyway ;)

I know Chemikiem but there seems to be myth spread amongst folk on PF that I'm somehow aggressive and nasty towards posters here. So I used this opportunity to explain to some of them why they ended feeling my boot kicking their backside. Also I cannot abide fools, it simple stupid people full of themselves get my goat.

I suppose that that nerdy part of my brain kicked in with this need to explain things. :)

Apparently, it wasn't his first trip to Poland, so presumably he hadn't had a problem before and therefore didn't expect any trouble this time.

Let focus in what is important here Chemikiem. That Shih case is not so clearly cut and dry and as this case has been presented by the press.

First of all

The police officers did tell me

police officers in Poland are not required as far as I know to communicate in English, so I don't know in what language they have communicated with the guy.

If that policeman was able to speak some English or someone from bystanders impromptu translated to him they couldn't have a good reliable standard of English. I'm certain what he says they have said to him is not a good and reliable representation of what actually was said to him.

So, once more much has been lost in the translation.

"The police officers did tell me that white and brown people in Poland are different,"

Let me 'translate' it for you - people in Poland are not used to people of different races and to interact with them.

They also told me that I should have thought about the attacks committed in Paris before I chose to come to Poland.

-Especially after those attacks in Paris, that created anti-Muslim feelings (hey you got turban on - are you for real?)-

People are angry, they said - aggression towards you is to be expected."

- Shyt happens.-
(Come on you are a big boy, nothing actually happened to you, live and learn.)
As I said not very professional but what he was exactly complaining about? That he was denied entry? That is a private establishment and they have the right to deny an entrée to anyone they choose.

Assault? I'm sure that bouncer could have produced witnesses to state that that Shih was tying to forcibly enter that joint.
In fact there were little they could have done and they just saved themselves lots of paperwork.
Thing is legally there was little that could have done to that bouncer unless Shih wanted to spend his time and money to peruse legal means and sue him.

All that ruckus is due to the fact that Britain is used to treat any assault on a colored and minority people like an assault on a stability of a state itself. On the one hand there is a numbers ethical and racial minorities in the uk on the other people have been killed only due to their skin color.

Poland doesn't have those problems. He was in Poland before and nothing had happened even though he is walking about with his characteristic turban, hell even in the USA one or other Shih found himself on a receiving end of anti-Muslim tirade.

Nobody has been killed due to skin color in Poland. Poland is a relatively save country, safer than UK and I say it again, he wasn't assaulted per se, he just walked into a situation he totally misread. Happens.

I guess I disagree with the way that case has been told because its misinterpreting the truth.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the role of the police is to protect and serve the public? I know, this is Poland and not the UK, but I thought similar principles would apply.

Let me put it this way - regardless of what is right and what is wrong------------------------------------ and the ways things are working( or not) in practice we are not here to debate shortages or lack of the police or other institutions-------------- in Poland.

We are here (at least I know I'm ) for a very simple reason - I disagree with the way that case had been presented.

You know the score, and yes, the only thing he was guilty of was not knowing how things are in Poland, but being a foreigner how could he?

Chemikiem some things are universal, you might not get it as a woman but for a man signs should be clear enough to see, unless he was intoxicated, or country that his status (protected minority) in the uk would apply in Poland. Maybe he is just a gullible dude who lost his way in a foreign country, we won't know for sure.

In an ideal world maybe.

I'm certain that is the only way plus gun ownership and a capital punishment, plus flogging for unruly boys and gender segregation in schools. No state health service or benefits. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Lets go back to the topic at hand.

Again I am looking at this from the perspective of someone born in the UK, and yes it is different because the UK is very multicultural in comparison to Poland, and there is far more racially motivated crime in my country

Indeed and I'm saying that there is no need for such laws in Poland in the foreseeable future. What would be the point? Different problems equal different solutions.

the Human Rights Ombudsman for Poland points out,

That dude is a useless douchebag, he has said that unfortunately those patriotic organizations are abiding the law and there is nothing that can be done to disband them. Whose Human Rights he is ombudsman for? Are patriots not human in his eyes, those kind of cretins get my goat!

So all this alleged data he is presenting I wouldn't trust further than I could spit.

If beatings like this are occurring more often than beatings for wearing the wrong hat

I highly doubt that is the case. However working courts, the police that is doing its job properly instead of focusing on opposition that would be a real improvement for law and order in Poland.

Hence the change is needed and PiS promised such a change and voters vote to power, let see what they are gonna do.
Properly working legal system and the police should be enough improvement for now.
Remember that those opposed to them are those who will say anything to get support but who will do very little if anything and who are mainly shady looses. So fi they seems to talk you talk they'll not deliver.

Crimes like this need to be nipped in the bud before they become commonplace.

Indeed premeditated attacks be it on a private property be it on people should be met with a rapid and severe response, either by the armed about-to-be-victim or/and by the state.

All the best.
:)
Supernovus    
15 May 2016  #176
Law and Justice party, which is now ruling Poland as you know, is the party of the strong state - so it is for the state monopoly of violence.

Whatever you think of this right-wing party it is going to fight every force which is breaking the law, and the law itself is in conformity with the EU law if not the same law as in the other European countries.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
15 May 2016  #177
it is going to fight every force which is breaking the law

So, it's going to put Duda and Szydło in prison, then?
Supernovus    
15 May 2016  #178
Are you suggesting that they have somehow broken the law?
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
15 May 2016  #179
As everyone knows, they have and continue to break it.
Supernovus    
15 May 2016  #180
It is simply groundless what you have just written.



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