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Etymology of the word "brat" - in Poland and other Slavic countries


Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018 #1
[moved from]

I hope that brat Mateusz knows what he doing.

Is that 'brat' as in brother, or 'brat' (English meaning) of annoying, badly behaved child?
Crow 160 | 10,261
31 Jan 2018 #2
English meaning? Why would that have English meaning? I am Serbian. Brat is brat.
Atch 17 | 3,683
31 Jan 2018 #3
@ Casual Observer, yes, he means Brother. Crow is our resident eccentric. We've decided to find it charming.
OP Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018 #4
English meaning? Why would that have English meaning?

Umm, cos that's the language you were typing in. Brat is an English word (interestingly, I often wonder if it was derived from the Slavic languages).
Crow 160 | 10,261
31 Jan 2018 #5
Of course it is derived from Slavic (ie Sarmatian) languages. What else

Crow is our resident eccentric. We've decided to find it charming.

Well, thank you. Tell him more nice things about me
Ziemowit 14 | 4,403
31 Jan 2018 #6
The etymology of the English 'brat' is Celtic and not Slavic. The Polish 'brat' and the English 'brother' are both derived from the Proto-Indo-European language.
Atch 17 | 3,683
31 Jan 2018 #7
Mmm, I don't know. In the Irish language, the word 'brat' means flag, but I think in Old Irish, it was a cloak. However neither has anything to do with a 'brat' in the English sense of the word.
OP Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018 #8
Etymology seems confused. Surely there's more relation between 'brat/brother' and English brat (naughty/spoiled child) than to Irish 'cloak' or French 'hound'.
Atch 17 | 3,683
31 Jan 2018 #9
Well I just did a bit of Googling, it's one of my specialties, I am to Google what a pig is to truffles and there is an old Irish (Gaelic) word 'rascal' meaning a cloak of rough cloth. The English word rascal on the other hand derives from the old French 'rascaille' for rabble. So perhaps somebody out there in internet land thereby drew a doubtful conclusion that the English word 'brat' derived from the Irish 'brat' meaning cloak. This is getting a bit confusing but you know what I mean roughly I think! Also just to keep things on topic, has Beata Thingummy ever been known to wear a 'brat'?
Crow 160 | 10,261
31 Jan 2018 #10
Beata? brat? Well, you tell me.

word 'rascal' meaning a cloak of rough cloth

`rascal` in itself associate to Ratzi (German), Raci (Hungaria), Racowie (Polish). I eleborated here on this forum long time ago that Sarmatian designations on `Srb/Serb` goes hand in hand with `Ras/Rac` designations. So, you have `Sarmatians` (some foreign given form of local version of original Serbian name) and `Thracians` (Th-racians, also foreign given form of original Ras) which are two designations of same people. So, you had situation that medieval Serbia was known as `Serbia` and `Raska` or `Ras`.

In my opinion, if `rascal` means cloak in Irish must be that word was formed under the influence of specific people that used `cloak of rough cloth`.

Look, even Irish ethnic name have root `ras` in itself I-rish. See? After all, we know with certainty that Scots were Picts- Sarmatians and also Celts at the same time.

Also, Persia > Pe-rsia or Prusia > P-rusia.

Etruscans called themselves `Rasna`.

We are all Sarmatians/Thracians. I mean, in origin at least.
Atch 17 | 3,683
31 Jan 2018 #11
Here's something you'll enjoy Crow, in honour of St Brigid whose feast day is tomorrow and coincides with our ancient Irish pagan festival of Imbolc, first day of Irish Spring. You can hear the distinctly Slavic influence in this ancient song:

youtube.com/watch?v=tP5FS6IXJJA

Enjoy!
Crow 160 | 10,261
31 Jan 2018 #12
While listening this beautiful music, I could imagine naked sastra Beata run across the green field.

You can hear the distinctly Slavic influence in this ancient song:

Nice. Thank you. I still enjoy. Yes, its that common culture that we share. That is why I`m always specific and say Slavic (ie Sarmatian) but, you can also say Proto Slavic (in scientific sense).

Proto-Indo-European language.

No, why lie to each others and pretend. `Proto-Slavic`, `Slavic`, `Sarmatian` or `Thracian language` sound better to say because culture and name of our common ancestors arn`t unknown but known. We live in internet era. Sure we don`t need inquisitors to confirm obvious things to us. Only truth can liberate us.

PS. My respect to St Brigid
Jendrej - | 1
18 Feb 2018 #13
From Wiktionary.

The English brat:
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/brat

The Polish brat:
From Proto-Slavic *bratrъ, *bratъ, from Proto-Indo-European *bʰréh₂tēr.

Well, it doesn't explain much, but it won't be easy to find more accurate explanations.
Crow 160 | 10,261
14 Apr 2018 #14
Let brat give you gift here > Spot how it looks like when Serbians give it to the Gypsy dance and music in show > just see those tits, ascend, and forget daily politics > restless Slavic beauty > youtube.com/watch?v=kcr7iOPfg50
Lyzko 37 | 8,544
14 Apr 2018 #15
If a Slav calls someone a "brat", that of course, is usually some sort of compliment! If a Slav calls an Anglophone same, that might cause some momentary displeasure, particularly if the latter were a minorLOL
Lyzko 37 | 8,544
15 Apr 2018 #17
Well now, that's sure the pot calling the kettle black:-)
Ziemowit 14 | 4,403
13 May 2021 #18
doubtful conclusion that the English word 'brat' derived from the Irish 'brat' meaning cloak

The Oxford Dictionary of English gives us this origin:
<ORIGIN> 16th century: perhaps an abbreviation of synonymous Scotts brachet 'hound, b*tch'; or perhaps from dialect brat 'rough garment, rag', based on old Irish bratt 'cloak'.
Crow 160 | 10,261
13 May 2021 #19
Synonyms of word BRAT in Serbian:

* BATA, BATICA, BRATIĆ, BRACA, BRATAC = little bother, also in sense dear little/younger brother
* BRALE, BURAZER, BURAZ, BRAJAN, BRATA, BRATAN, BRAJA (read BRAYA), BRAJKO = brother (when you talk nicely to/of your brother)
* BRATANAC = cousin, son of your brother
* BATAN = when talk of somebody in superlative to describe him as alpha male

'brat/brother' and English brat (naughty/spoiled child)

I here recognize Slavic origin of BRAT

English is younger language then Slavic, separated from old Slavic. Being younger language becoming simplistic, crude.

from Proto-Indo-European *bʰréh₂tēr.

There was no Proto-Indo-European. Only Proto-Slavic, old Slavic or if we were to be precise old Sarmatian.

Mmm, I don't know. In the Irish language, the word 'brat' means flag

Could be connected to the Serbian verb BRATI = `to pick` or `to collect` apples, for example. To pick apples you need a stick. So comes the connection to flag.

This could be in logic of ancient people and could affect evolution of language in isolated communities.

Also interesting. SABRATI = to collect, add up / or SABIRATI = to add

Then BIRATI > to choose
GRANIA iRSKI
19 May 2021 #20
In modern Irish, the word 'brathair' signifies 'brother' - since the 'brat' is seemingly a shared root word among many languages, maybe this is a shared memory of a word, from a time when all our people moved from one place to another. There is another old saying - 'bare is your back without brothers' - we all need each other! Never more than now!
Crow 160 | 10,261
19 May 2021 #21
This is Last Glacial Maximum, which began about 110,000 years ago and ended about 15,000 years ago

s

This previous Ice age - Penultimate Glacial Period, began about 194,000 years ago, and ended 135,000 years ago

s

Main Ice Age refugium in Europe was always Balkan, where 90% of Europe`s populace retreated and then again re-populated Europe. Why Balkan? Because Balkan stays in correlation with European net of rivers. Spain is isolated. And what is Balkan? Remained Slavic ie Sarmatian region and kept Sarmatian name alive (Serbian name). Meaning? Europeans are Sarmats in origin. They must be. Some got foreign influence but being European and White means being Sarmatian (Serbian) in origin.

oot word among many languages, maybe this is a shared memory of a word

Seek your origin on Balkan Danube, within Lepenski Vir culture. Either you are from there, either you most certainly aren`t European. Politics aside, that`s it.

s

This is why we have dispersion Sarmatian/Serbian name from places/rivers in Europe to the Siberia, Eurasia, Anatolia and Near East. Sarmats/Serbs = Slavs.


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