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Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations?


Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
21 Feb 2020 #391
BB is one of those that accepts Patriots but rejects Nationalists.

When in doubt, apply the concept to a family. Just as it is impossible to separate patriotism from nationalism, it is impossible to put a wedge between the love of your family and your willingness to see them as special and worthy of your protection by ANY and ALL means available regardless how many will die in the process and how the onlookers will feel. A quick FU is the only good answer.
AntV 2 | 192
22 Feb 2020 #392
Where and how do you draw a line?

I think the argument isn't about what is a patriot or a nationalist or a globalist, really. I think the argument is do you want a country that that is governed by the people through elected officials or do you want a country governed by an elite who are not answerable to the people? Now, cynics will say, "well, all political representatives are bought and paid for by special interests and don't give a damn about the people." That can be true, but the people still have the power to kick 'em out; whereas, an unelected political elite is virtually untouchable.

BB's view, as I understand it, is that a supranational globalist body is the best way to ensure peace and prosperity...for Germany, which directly benefits him. {Is that accurate, BB? } Notice his ultimate aim is self-interest, which is to live in peace and prosper. Who doesn't want that? BB's aims are normal and good.

The question is, does a supranational globalist political-economical regime really provide that in the long run? Will a supranational elite be sensitive to your needs? How will a supranational regime effect the distinct cultures it governs? How does a supranational regime effect local economies? How do you hold the supranational regime accountable?
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,062
22 Feb 2020 #393
Love this. FUK EU COMMIES

youtu.be/sRZ_hxljuYU

PełO libertard lunatics dont like this...

youtu.be/gQuR5mgM68M

youtu.be/tQ-SNl914MY

Polska Walcząca prosto w mordę lewakom.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
22 Feb 2020 #394
BB's view, as I understand it, is that a supranational globalist body is the best way to ensure peace and prosperity

This kind of cooperation not only benefits Germany....look at Europe BEFORE and since....you can't say only Germany profited from that!

When you listen to...say....Weimarer + Spike.....you just know that would going to end with nationalists at the helm...for the bad of both countries. We would fight again! We would lose again!

The question is, does a supranational globalist political-economical regime really provide that in the long run?

It's nothing strange implanted from Mars on us...it's us...we shape and direct it. But with all bitching and discussing and disagreements we should always keep in mind that we have no really a better chance.

That's what makes patriotes different....they want the best for their country! If a supranationalist body can provide that, then...hell yeah! :)

A nationalists hates other countries! They will always think "We against Them"!
Torq 32 | 2,999
22 Feb 2020 #395
Most Nationalists are Patriots and many Patriots are Nationalists.
Where and how do you draw a line?

For me the distinction is rather simple: a patriot is someone who is concerned with the greater good of his fatherland, understood as well-being of his fellow countrymen, even willing to die for it, but he is not willing to sacrifice either his humanity or his eternal life to make his country stronger. He sees things in the perspective of eternity rather than from simple and primitive perspective of our short lives on this earth. Also, he values inter-personal ties (like friendship) more than blind obedience.

That's why for a patriot, like me, it is possible to fight, kill and die for my country, but it is not possible to commit war crimes in the name of it. It is more important for Poland to be Catholic, than for her to be wealthy/admired by the world (of course being both would be the best, but when forced to choose, I choose the former). Obedience to national authorities is important, but when forced to choose between blind obedience, and loyalty to an honourable friend, I choose friendship etc.

So, when a leader like Hitler appears, who demands that one gives up his humanity, eternal life or loyalty to friends, for the outward signs of grandeur and power, more land, wealth etc. no matter what cost, then patriots are firmly against such leader.

Nationalists on the other hand are concerned with external signs of power, they have this hubris and insatiable desire to be admired, to march, to wave their weapons. It is more important for them for their country to be feared than for it to be wealthy (see Russian nationalists); they are willing to commit even the worst atrocities in the name of their country (see UPA); willing to give up their Christian faith for their country or, even worse, willing to use it as a justification of their crimes (see Ustasha).

So, when a leader like Hitler appears, who promises parades, marches, power, and that they will be feared, if only they are willing to give up their human side and their religion and replace them with the idol of fatherland, nationalists enthusiastically support such leader.

That's the difference.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,075
22 Feb 2020 #396
Nationalists on the other hand are concerned with external signs of power and insatiable desire to wave their weapons.

they are willing to commit even the worst atrocities in the name of their country

On this forum, clowns like Dirk diggler, Rich Mazur, NoToForeigners (also known as Snotty), Ironside and Spike33 satisfy your definition of a nationalist, I think.

Notice also that nationalists must have in internal enemy first whom they fde-humanize and then want to annihilate complately. In Hitler's Germany those were the Jews, gypsies, homosexuals and mentally-ill.. Today their enemy are mostly the so-called libtards, the so-called 'turdwurlders' and LGBT In general, the liberal democracies which assure constitutional feedom for every minority are their main target whom they would like to wipe out of this earth as quickly as possible.

You want an example of such ideoliogy? It is right here, in the fourth post above:

Polska Walcząca prosto w mordę lewakom.

mafketis 23 | 8,404
22 Feb 2020 #397
satisfy your definition of a nationalist

His 'nationalist' is a type of fundamentalist, and fundamentalists always turn against their own...
Torq 32 | 2,999
22 Feb 2020 #398
Dirk diggler, Rich Mazur, NoToForeigners (also known as Snotty), Ironside and Spike33

I am always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. There doesn't seem to be much hope for NTF or Diggler, but other users that you mentioned are probably closer to patriotic than nationalistic position.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
22 Feb 2020 #399
You want an example

It's amazing how frustrated he must be.

People like that have achieved nothing, and it's clear that they strive for attention online because they're getting none in their real life.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
22 Feb 2020 #400
That's the crux of the matter, isn't it?

Nationalists also believe they have to fight for the best of their country.....they must kill all these "traitors" who want to destroy the proud nation...they must "cleanse" the nation from all these gadflies like gays and all those they don't deem to belong....

Only then, when the country is cleaned, the traitors are disposed of THEN the nation will be perfect and safe...something to be proud of...and everybody who thinks differently is naturally an enemy of this nation...
Spike31 3 | 1,638
22 Feb 2020 #401
@BratwurstBoy, you've described a German nationalism. I've told you on many occassions that Polish nationalism is different and is based on different ideological foundations.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
22 Feb 2020 #402
@BratwurstBoy, you've described a German nationalism

*epic eye roll*

Of course...only other country's nationalists stink...your own on the other hand smell like rose petals...that's why they hate each other...

THINK!!!
Spike31 3 | 1,638
22 Feb 2020 #403
On this forum, clowns like Dirk diggler, Rich Mazur, NoToForeigners (also known as Snotty), Ironside and Spike33 satisfy your definition of a nationalist, I think

@Ziemowit, Is this opinion based on facts ie. my opinions shared in posts which we could discuss, or just your personal emotional insinuations?

Of course...only other country's nationalism stinks...your own smells like rose petals...suuuuuure!

Polish nationalism did not start two World Wars (out of 2 in total) and haven't created holocaust. As simple as that. There are more differences but I think those two are vivid enough. Judge them by their fruits
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
22 Feb 2020 #404
Polish nationalism did not start two World Wars (out of 2 in total) and haven't created holocaust.

Lack of means, power and opportunity...if Germany hadn't been the most industrialized and technological advanced country of this age neither wouldn't had german nationalists been able to wreak that much havoc! But they had the power so they could!

Nobody cares about the nationalists of....say...Malta! Simple as that....but the spirit behind is always the same!

We good! - Everybody not like us bad! Needs to be fighted, deported, jailed, oppressed, killed! For the good of our people!
Spike31 3 | 1,638
22 Feb 2020 #405
Lack of means and opportunity...

No. Different mentality.

We are different than you. We always were and always will be.

To understand this you would have to move to Poland for a while to detox your mind
Lenka 3 | 1,966
22 Feb 2020 #406
And let's be honest- they cooperate now because they have no real power and have mutual enemy. Once that is gone and different national interests come into play I doubt they will be so cooperative
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
22 Feb 2020 #407
No. Different mentality.

Oh please! Why not say: Different race? Better race???

Crap!

But as I said before, you are a bonafide example of everything what keeps nationalists disunited and weak...why they will always lose against globalists and even leftists!

But be my guest, I'm for sure not suffering for it...

Once that is gone and different national interests come into play I doubt they will be so cooperative

They CAN'T!!!! Spike would never work together with german nationalists to make both countries better and stronger....he would rather cut his hand off! :)

No real opponent for the german and polish globalists and their organizations! :)
Spike31 3 | 1,638
22 Feb 2020 #408
Spike would never work together with german nationalists to make both countries better and stronger....he would rather cut his hand off!

I would if it benefited Poland. The thing is that there's a conflict of interest between our countries and things which would benefit Germany doesn't usually benefit Poland and vice versa.

I would also be very selective and careful in choosing those groups to be sure that they are not neo-nazi sympathizers or supporters.
Ironside 49 | 10,311
22 Feb 2020 #409
clowns

Back at you. There is no a bigger clown than you with your unjustified conceit.

Notice also that nationalists

I notice that you have no idea about Dmowski and you yapp some prejudiced slogans cause you were brainwashed in the Soviet Poland and you never freed yourself from that influence. Just waiting for you to waffle about happy medium. Inteligencja is dead.

Notice also that nationalists must have in internal enemy first

You must be sleeping in class boy. How about obsessions' with homophobias, far right, Nazis and what have you by so called 'liberals'? If someone is looking for class enemies then those are your culprits neo-Marxist lefties.

Whilst tools like you are desperately searching for some far right conspiracy or dark side of the power right under your nose are people with a totalitarian ideology who are pretty much mains stream and set trends in media and academia. You're pretty daft or biased on the whole.

Also why would you put me in the same sentence with R Mazur or Daft Dodo? We agree on some things like maybe two but we disagree on all others. The fact they are against neo-Marxist ideology called progressive's or liberals is only a coincidence. They constantly talk about homosexuals' and homosexuality while I don't care about that aspect of the issue.

I care about ideology LGBT and those two are connected in the same way that workers and a Communistic party was connected in the PRL.

NotToForeniers is just a kid that is imagining what it is to be natrodowiec. Seems to me all his ideas are based on liberal prejudices against them. Which would be pretty funny if it weren't sad at the same time.

A fact that you take it seriously is just an clear indication what a floppy self-absorbed prick you are.

There is nothing wrong with Spike, although he is a tad too naïve and earnest sometimes.

His 'nationalist' is a type of fundamentalist,

Well, you know that your axiom about slavery not being economically viable is a trope. It is because slavery was very much economically viable in the South that the civil war was fought.

*epic eye roll*

Don't you dare to roll your eyes dammit ! lol!

BB you are a stubborn son of gun, like a damn mule. How long will you ignore info your are getting. Maybe just read some on the subject before you jump a gun? Come on don't disappoint me.

Spike would never work together with german nationalists

Not because Spike wouldn't. My bet would be on the German nationalist. I would work together with anyone as long as the Polish national interest wasn't at stake.
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
22 Feb 2020 #410
@Ironside

Im a german nationalist and would work with polish nationalists
Ironside 49 | 10,311
22 Feb 2020 #412
2019:
123,4 billion Euro - Poland - Germany trade.
Poland is a no. six as a trading partner of Germany.

Export to Germany - 57,6 billion Euro.
Import from Germany - 65,8 billion Euro.
mafketis 23 | 8,404
22 Feb 2020 #413
It is because slavery was very much economically viable in the South that the civil war was fought.

The rate of slavery was steadily decreasing in the 18th century because the traditional crops sugar, rice, tobacco either weren't grown in the plantation conditions found in the caribbean and latin america. Then the invention of the cotton gin made slavery briefly economically viable for cotton... but it was still an economic house of cards and southern states were up to their eyeballs and beyond in debt to northern banks.

Only a tiny percentage of the white population owned slaves and cotton didn't generate enough money to keep the whole show going.
The moral degradation of slavery was one reason for the civil war and southern debt was another.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,848
22 Feb 2020 #414
The moral degradation of slavery was one reason for the civil war

what totally egregious BS. The civil war was fought so that new states being created wouldnt join the 'slave states' and make a confederacy that would do better economically (because of free labour) than the non- slave states of the north.

The slaves being freed was by the by. It's not as though they were then treated any better was it?
mafketis 23 | 8,404
22 Feb 2020 #415
would do better economically (because of free labour) than the non- slave states of the north.

Apart from moral considerations, slavery was only economically beneficial to a very small group of people, not the society as a whole which mostly remained poor and well behind the north in educational and economic matters.
Tacitus 2 | 1,136
22 Feb 2020 #416
It's not as though they were then treated any better was it?

Well, families were no longer torn apart on slave auctions and they were no longer bred like cattle, and free black people did no longer face the danger of enslavement whwn they visited the South, so yes, things did improve for them.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_breeding_in_the_United_States
AntV 2 | 192
22 Feb 2020 #417
This kind of cooperation not only benefits Germany.

I knew you were going to say that! I almost added the phrase "...and others."

Torq sees a nationalist as someone who is willing to give up his humanity for the perceived good of the state and is attracted to power.

BB sees a nationalist as someone who despises those contrary to his beliefs and is intolerant of opposition, who creates political division and conflict.

Would you agree with that synopsis, BB and Torq?

If this is correct, can we say that this fits every leader or movement throughout the world that is being labeled nationalist?

It seems that nationalist equals something Naziesque in most people's minds. So, maybe we should make a distinction between those who reject globalism and fit the above definitions with those who want to maintain national sovereignty without supranational governance yet remain mutually engaged with others. We can call the latter Sovereignists.
mafketis 23 | 8,404
22 Feb 2020 #418
no longer bred like cattle

As awful as that was (which is extremely....) treatment of slaves in the US was far better than in the Caribbean or Latin America where they were routinely worked to death and replaced by new slaves.

Only something like 6 per cent of the Atlantic Slave Trade was to areas now in the US and that's partly because of generally better treatment (as valuable property which is a hideous idea but....).

The status of freed slaves wasn't much better than before the war for lots of reasons (including the economic devastation of the entire US South and the disastrous reconstruction policies).

Nonetheless, by the turn of the 19th and 20th century there was a small black middle class in every southern city. In terms of social evolution 40 years from slavery to a middle class is light speed.... and by the 1920's you had the Harlem Renaissance and a full scale intellectual movement.
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
22 Feb 2020 #419
@rozumiemnic
You have a Problem with me loving my Nation?

Of course i love my country. Im a proud German and my nation is as important as my family for me
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,590
22 Feb 2020 #420
Would you agree with that synopsis, BB and Torq?

I for one do...:)

We can call the latter Sovereignists.

Hmmm...do you have a living example for one politician of such sort? Because slogans like: "Make **** great again" spring to mind...or "Take back control"....as if foreigners, other countries are to blame for humiliation or loss...that invokes hostility as in "We against them"...not friendship and cooperation.

Do you really know a Sovereignist who can do without it?

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