For whatever it's worth to anyone, van der Bellen and the Greens won in Austria, thankfully defeating Hofer's FPOE:-)
Perhaps now, Pegida and AfD won't feel quite so emboldened. Germany's Sigmar Gabriel of the Left Coalition of Merkel's party watched the Austrian elections with baited breath and expressed a deep sigh of relief at yesterday's outcome!
Italy's Renzi though wasn't as fortunate.I think we can forget about Francois Hollande for the forseeable future as well.
For whatever it's worth to anyone, van der Bellen and the Greens won in Austria, thankfully
Why "thankfully"? The anger of many Europeans towards their governments and Brussels is not lessening. And FPO is not really "Far right" (if it were there would be many citations of their far right positions - instead their far rightness is mere stated again and again and again...)
FPO is rightwing period and would have been centrist a couple of decades ago.
The real far right right are waitng in the wings.
The choice for the EU is: a) accept some governments that are further right than Brussels b) start paying attention to voter concerns instead of ignoring them c) war
I'm completely serous. Celebrating van der Bellen's victory is applauding the orchestra on the Titanic.
Ahemm, sorry Maf, but the FPO was started almost immediately post-War in Austria by ex-Nazis, eager to return their disillusioned homeland to the "good old days", I'm surprised at you. Or is that just typical understatement?:-)
Joerg Haider schmoozed his way into voters hearts, even appearing with a Jewish historian on a Canadian talk show, but was nonetheless a Nazi to the bone!!!
but the FPO was started almost immediately post-War in Austria by ex-Nazis
So? Is there a reason I should care?. The Democratic party was once the party of racial segregation in the US. Times and parties change.
At present I haven't heard much from the FPO that a reasonable person would have to disagree with. If they were really that bad the press would be all over their policy positions - insteads it's all innuendo and calls to the past.
Tell me something I should disagree with now and stop being a drama queen stuck in the past.
No soap there, Maf! The Nazi party is within relatively recent memory, many of whose members or followers are still very much alive, albeit rather geriatric at this stage:-) The Civil War to which you refer ended in 1865 and the last from that era died out around the end of the 1940'sLOL
It certainly should bother you that the FPO nearly won, and that the far-right throughout Europe are poised to assume office! It's precisely when times are tough that core values are most desparately needed. Without either optimism or idealism, mankind reverts back to animal kind and certainly nobody wants that.
Civil War to which you refer ended in 1865 and the last from that era died out around the end of the 1940'sLOL
No. The real diehard segregationists were overwhelmingly members of the democratic party until the early 1970s.
Again, you haven't actually mentioned any policy positions.
Please name their policies that you disagree with (I might also). But if all you have is vague fears of the "far right" then you have no real arguments.
The positions I've found from the FPO aren't really far right, but if it and groups like it are not given a voice then the _real_ far right is liable to take over. By trying so hard to prevent a scary far right from forming - you're probably doing more to empower them.
With your last statement, you might well be right!
Nonetheless, I certainly equate post-Civil War segregationists, for whom the "War Between The States" is still brewing, with post-War Nazis for whom Hitler's ideology is very much alive; they're both OUT TO LUNCH:-)
Hofer hasn't moved on with the times, Van der Bellen has, and the far-right has simply got to acknowledge this, even if they can't bring themselves to accept change!!
Jefferson Beauregard Sessions from Alabama is living TODAY, and all his anti-Bellum bad manners, such as addressing African-American colleagues as "Boy!" is nothing short of unacceptable.
Hofer hasn't moved on with the times, Van der Bellen has,
It's not clear if Van der Bellen thinks there should be an independent country named Austria or simply a place on the map of the EU super state named Austria.....
Many EU policies work fine and some of them are dismal failures by any rational standard and the EU leadership is refusing to admit this (the same way the communists never admitted to any of their catastrophic failures).
The best way to prevent the real far right from coming to power is to accept some governments that are further to the right than the EU leadership is comfortable with will be winning elections. Nothing tones down radical rhetoric quicker than being made responsible for your policies on the ground.
At present the EU is telling the people of Europe that their is no peaceful way to change unpopular EU policies..... that is far more dangerous than anything the FPO could come up wth.
Why then has Hollande been so weak to speak out against Marine Le Pen, Merkel against Frauke Petry (whose popularity continues to grow), Renzi against the opposition, to whom he finally lost, or, most of all the former PM of Britain Cameron against Farage and the rest of the Brexiteers??
Oh no, I'm right about the advent of the right wing. Let's hope Austria's vote in the correct path to democracy will be a wake-up call as well as slow the march of les petites faschistes:-))
>most of all the former PM of Britain Cameron against Farage and the rest of the Brexiteers
Cameron called Farage and his party "swivel-eyed lunatics", and campaigned very strongly against Brexit. But momentum matters a lot in politics, or 'traction' as it is often referred to these days. The public often follow and get swept up by this momentum, which rolls like a snowball, accumulating legitimacy and votes. Parties and ideas can be a minority fringe for decades, but once they start winning then more people vote for them. The Nazi party in 1930s Germany is a good example, as is UKIP with Brexit. That is why it is very important never to underestimate dangers from fringe politics, because they can rapidly become mainstream.
>Why then has Hollande been so weak to speak out against Marine Le Pen, Merkel against Frauke Petry
Because they are gaining momementum and attracting votes from Hollande and Merkel, and so to criticise their supporters is to criticise and alienate your own voters. Politicians are often in a dilemma here.
How is voting for a party whose policies they agree with _not_ the correct path of democracy?
slow the march of les petites faschistes:-))
If you have to choose.
1. you can wave away the parties you don't like and unpopular EU policies towards greater integration and more non-European migration continue unabated
2. Some parties that are a bit further to the right than you like come to power in order to start changing unpopular EU policies.
(nb 1 is a likely path to civil uprisings in a few EU countries....)
Maf, like Trump in the States, Hofer is your typical "gemuetlich" Austrian, a xenophobic fear mongerer masquerading as just a nice, ordinary guy, much as with Waldheim and many others, walzing their way into your heart, fueled by hatred and prejudice, rather than champagne and Viennese charm:-)
The examples speak for themselves! READ THE PAPER, CHECK OUT THEIR PROPAGANDA.
Odd you should be asking for examples by merely playing the Devil's Advocate here, while the sins of the Hofer's, Trump's, and others of that same ilk go by unquestioned:-)
The examples speak for themselves! READ THE PAPER, CHECK OUT THEIR PROPAGANDA.
I'm not just talking about you, almost every single story talks about how extremist and nasty FPO are..... without actually mentioning any particulr policies they prefer.
The few policies I've heard of sound okay,
rolling back EU intergration... (would a straight up 'do you want more or less EU integration?' referendum actually pass in any country?)
limiting participation in Mama Merkel's Madness... (worst poltical decision since WWII why help her pretend it's been anything but a disaster?)
leaving the EU if Turkey joins.... (especially under Erdogan)
Either name some policies they're proposing that are bad or stop expecting me to pay attention when people say they're so terrible.
These however are not answers, Maf old man, they're quick fixes to long-term problems, to which certainly neither of us has the ideal solution!
I do know that Hofer's playbill is reminiscent of Joerg Haider who thought that Hitler had some excellent ideas.
The difficulty is when any extreme, left or right, is allowed to hold sway. To give a more homegrown example, it's as dumb to assert that a 100% inheritance tax will re-distribute wealth in this country as it is on the other end aka to end ANY government assistance, Medicure, Social Security forever and let the US populace fend for itself:-)
Don't you see; both are nuts. The leftist agenda though is perhaps a little harder to sell because it requires more humanity and fewer easy solutions.
I'm not interested in history of reminiscing. I've asked several times for specific policies that you disagree with and you won't or can't provide them.
Your fear of FPO is irrational and possibly caused by groupthink.
Was fear of the irrational hatred of Hitler and cohorts "unjustified"??! Once more, you're clearly playing the Devil's advocate, Maf, but it's enough already!
Put YOURSELF in the position of being a stranger in a foreign country being unfairly targeted for the alleged misdeeds of your fellow countrymen. Today it's mostly Syrian migrants, yesterday it was the Jews en masse, tomorrow??
Put YOURSELF in the position of being a stranger in a foreign country being unfairly targeted for the alleged misdeeds of your fellow countrymen.
Put yourself in the position of being in your own country and your government is cutting back needed services to citizens in order to take care of a bunch of economic migrants masquerading as refugees. Would you want to vote for a party that says it wants to put citizen interests first or for a party that doesn't even seem to much like the fact that country exists?
you're clearly playing the Devil's advocate, Maf, but it's enough already!
you're clearlyd unable to actually find terrible party positions or terrible things said by FPO people, enough with the fear mongering already!
As far as the first statement, true as it undoubtedly is, the fact is it is when times are tough that a degree of empathy is most sorely needed, from ALL sectors of the society!! The government is attracted by the lure of cheap labor, just as in the US, France, Germany or any highly industrialized nation, so Austria's "importing" of low-wage foreigners is nothing new. The government though must call a halt to this policy and then, this might begin to stabilize matters, as would be the case right here at home.
Read any articles about what is going on in Germany with slogans like "Petry Heil!" (a take off on "Petri Heil!" aka "Good fishing today!) etc. and you'll see examples so numerous you'll have to literally beat them off with a stick:-))
As far as the first statement, true as it undoubtedly is, the fact is it is when times are tough that a degree of empathy is most sorely needed, from ALL sectors of the society!!
So suck it up citizens! These Albanians and Iraqis need our help!
The government is attracted by the lure of cheap labor
But you have to get them to work for them to be cheap labor. How many of the Merkeljugend have found jobs?
The government though must call a halt to this policy and then, this might begin to stabilize matters
But western governments have made it completely plain that they will not halt the policy no matter what the voters want (which is faaaaaarrr more dangerous than anything FPO has advocated in the last couple of years).
If Merkel wins come mid-autumn of this year, I'd say the EU at least has a future, not necessarily bright:-) If not, then we'd all better start prayin' now, kids, AND HARD!!!
If Merkel wins come mid-autumn of this year, I'd say the EU at least has a future, not necessarily bright
With Germany assuming it's rightful place as the most hated country in Europe as it continues its grand tradition of interfering with other countried and antogonizing its supposed allies.... My own opinion of Germany (source of most of my DNA) has plummeted since Merkel's attacks on Greece and unfathomable generosity to hundreds of thousands of young men with no education, skills or hope for integration.
Electing her again puts it at the level of Putn's Russia - a constant source of strife and conflict in Euope.
Simple prayers won`t help here. If Poland wants to live and prosper, official Poland needs to have closer as possible ties with Serbia and attract it in Visegrad Group. That would present Poland as serious in the eyes of partners from very Visegrad Group on which Serbia has serious influence. Plus, having Serbians as allies means safe Poland`s eastern borders and much safer western if Germany just try something. With Serbia involved around Poland, Germany would think twice and even trice before tries open war, because they know that would Russia (and China) immediately respond against Germany with final violance what would led to total destruction of Germany.
Parallel (!) with it, Poland have to have best as possible relations with USA, Vatican, Russia and China. All this would prepare ground for Poland to form Intermarium when historical moment come or to say, when options such are EU and NATO become obsolete.
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