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'Fort Trump' Military Base in Poland


delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
3 Nov 2018  #391
overly regulated and socialistic economies.

Like Poland, you mean? The country which ranks 27th in the "ease of doing business" index, which is behind Germany and Sweden? The country in which the government is heavily interventionist and has been protecting state-owned business with all sorts of regulation to kill off private competitors?
TheOther 5 | 3,520    
3 Nov 2018  #392
more than a half of those developed countries will lose its competitive edge

There go Poland's most important export markets then.

Once there we will compete on the same level as other Western developed economies.

If they let you, that is, and provided that Poland will be able to develop its own competitive products.
Ironside 47 | 9,123    
  3 Nov 2018  #393
There go Poland's most important export markets then.

Hmm is it not that the case of the EU and Germany versus Brexit and Britain? Bexiteers make exactly the same argument, somehow it has no effect on Brussels. What make you think that in the case of Poland your argument will work?

If they let you,

Thanks, that is argument to get out rather than be held in bondage as a semi-colony.
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
3 Nov 2018  #394
and provided that Poland will be able to develop its own competitive products.

And it's also assuming that foreign consumers will want to buy them.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
  3 Nov 2018  #395
The country which ranks 27th in the "ease of doing business" index,

Thats a great rank considering there's some 180 nations. Poland ranks above france switzerland spain netherlands italy belgium israel etc Also its subjective. Most businessmen would argue hong Kong and israel are the easiest places to do business.
Spike31 1 | 438    
13 Nov 2018  #396
This is a real threat to Europe:

France and Germany wants to build an "EU Army" which in the future may be used to "discipline" the EU members which are not willing to submit to the neo marxist madness of the EU bureaucrats.

"We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America."

So a French boy with oedipus complex sees America as a military threat to France and Europe...

telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/13/trump-says-french-learning-german-paris-us-intervened-world/

politico.eu/article/macron-wants-europe-to-build-its-own-military-hardware/

politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
13 Nov 2018  #397
France and Germany wants to build an "EU Army"

Anyone got any polls showing a majority of EU citizens want further integration?

politico.eu/article/united-states-of-europe-germans-french-most-in-favor-poll/

Notice, behind the deceptive headline only 30% of those surveyed were in favor in Germany where support was highest...

EU "integration" is class warfare (the elites against everybody else except a few who imagine they could join the elites...... they can't)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,043    
13 Nov 2018  #398
You can do this if you are successful at playing their game plus a bit of luck along the way, but once you get there , for some at least it can be a huge anticlimax.
TheOther 5 | 3,520    
  13 Nov 2018  #399
EU "integration" is class warfare

Look at it from a different perspective. Who has a keen interest in the EU to fail both as a trade block as well as a potential precursor of a future United States of Europe? The EU is a serious global competitor economically, the Euro might endanger the role of the US$ as the world reserve currency, and a European army would challenge the Russians and reduce the foreign military influence of the USA significantly.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  14 Nov 2018  #400
I'm all for it....closer integration and independence from far away countries for our own security. Especially Poland should know how fickle that trust can be...
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
14 Nov 2018  #401
France and Germany wants to build an "EU Army" which in the future may be used to "discipline" the EU members

Exactly. Perfect point.
In this day and age of political correctness and sensitivities, there are no armies. Only cops plus social workers.
Armies win wars and go home. Cops are forever like in Japan, Germany, Korea, Kosovo, and Afghanistan.
hbhv    
15 Nov 2018  #402
what a joke. coward right wing catholicism hypocryte liers pathology trying to be west now suk trumps dik.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,718    
15 Nov 2018  #403
Can you, please, stop screaming and using code words? A simple sentence with a noun and a verb will do fine.
I find your views interesting, but hard to follow with the punctuation, spelling and other presentation imperfections.
Spike31 1 | 438    
24 Nov 2018  #404
On a subject of Fort Trump Poland should ask itself fundamental questions: who can we trust and who we shouldn't trust?

Can we trust our neighbours? Well, modern history teaches us that we shouldn't trust either Germany nor Russia.

And the history repeats itself when, "strangely" enough, both of those countries cooperate closely in spite of sanctions which were put on Russia after its aggression in Donbass.

Russia is definitely against the bases, since this would take away illusion that Russia can rebuilt its sphere of political influence in Central and Eastern Europe.

And Germany are against it cause that would lead to a permanent presence of the US in Central Europe. A place place which plays a crucial role in German project of mitteleuropa. Germany [and France] would gladly remove any American presence in Europe if they could.

And the US is an external force in Europe which doesn't posses a threat to a sovereignty of Poland.

So yes, Poland should remain in good relations with both East and West but it should do that from a position of power. No political pact is as strong as a sheer military force. And a base is just one of the arguments. One which shouldn't replace building a strong army but it can compliment it.

And Poland should also join NATO nuclear sharing as soon as possible cause this would deter even the most determined aggressors.

Germany or Russia can easily break a political pact when it suits them but it is not as easy to ignore a military power which stands behind it.
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
24 Nov 2018  #405
And the US is an external force in Europe which doesn't posses a threat to a sovereignty of Poland.

Except they already sold Polish sovereignty in exchange for Western Europe.

Primitive pro-American propaganda will never work when you even have basic knowledge of how America and the Soviet Union divided Europe into spheres of influence. The Americans would sell Poland again tomorrow if it suited them to do so, especially as the Americans have little to no real economic interests here beyond selling some overpriced gas and a TV channel.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,105    
  24 Nov 2018  #406
Can we trust our neighbours? Well, modern history teaches us that we shouldn't trust either Germany nor Russia.

Poland in EU was a good step forward. Close cooperation with it's european democratic neighbours is a good recipe against any isolation which led to Polands demise so often in the past....

And Germany are against it cause that would lead to a permanent presence of the US in Central Europe.

Nah...we have Ramstein for that...and about 35,369 personnel.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments

And Poland should also join NATO nuclear sharing as soon as possible cause this would deter even the most determined aggressors.

...and who should that be?
Spike31 1 | 438    
25 Nov 2018  #407
Close cooperation with it's european democratic neighbours is a good recipe against any isolation which led to Polands demise so often in the past....

Poland doesn't need to isolate itself but rather to pick allies more wisely:

> Closer economical and political cooperation with Central and Southern Europe in V4 and 3SI format

> Economical cooperation with China ie. New Silk Road which ends in Central Poland (near the city of Lodz)

> Military cooperation with the US

> Form a political alliance with the UK aimed at limiting overgrown German influence in Europe. Especially now after Brexit, the UK will be interested to have an inside man in the EU.

> And obviously using an EU single market to our advantage and insist that it remains free and not restricted by unnecessary regulations which benefit stronger economies. Economy should be a priority since there's not strong military force without solid economical and industrial foundations backing it.


Germany may be the main economical power in Europe right now but I predict that you've reached you've peak by now and you're now on a slippery slope.

You main export partner the US wants to limit your export surplus and Trump will hit you with customs war.

2 million permanently unemployed "refugees" are a burden on your economy and they will never contribute to German economy. Or rather they will but in negative sense

And when it comes to military power Germany is a dwarf controlled by the US. And it shall remain that way
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
25 Nov 2018  #408
Except all of that is ignoring the reality, which is that the Polish economy is heavily tied in with the German one. Latvian or Slovak companies aren't suddenly going to come in and replace German companies, not least because they don't have the financial or organisational ability to do so.

V4 is insignificant, TSI is nothing but a talking shop, and well, everyone knows how China demands significant concessions. You want China to give? Great, but you'll also hand over sovereignty to them.

Germany may be the main economical power in Europe right now but I predict that you've reached you've peak by now and you're now on a slippery slope.

Ah, the fantasies of Polish nationalists. Germany falls, Poland falls, it's that simple.
Tacitus 2 | 692    
25 Nov 2018  #409
You main export partner the US wants to limit your export surplus and Trump will hit you with customs war.

We shall see. So far nothing has happened and membership of the EU protects Germany against the worst.

2 million permanently unemployed "refugees" are a burden on your economy and they will never contribute to German economy.

1/3 of them are already working. The economic "burden" of those refugees tend to be deliberately overstated, and they are probably even beneficial to the German economy in the long run.

Form a political alliance with the UK

Counting on the UK is a foolish proposition at best. Brexit will ensure that London's voice will be marginalized in Europesn affairs for decades to come.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
25 Nov 2018  #410
1/3 of them are already working.

And 40% or so of them already have criminal records in Germany....
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
25 Nov 2018  #411
Counting on the UK is a foolish proposition at best.

Especially as the UK is so heavily dependent on financial services, and if there's no freedom of movement of those services, the UK is absolutely screwed.

Nevermind the fact that the UK has no interest in playing games like that.
Tacitus 2 | 692    
  25 Nov 2018  #412
And 40% or so of them already have criminal records in Germany....

Make that 0,4% and you might be closer to the truth, though it still be higher than the reality.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
  25 Nov 2018  #413
The 40% comes from Andrew Hammel, an American legal expert and translator resident in Germany who's closely followed German policy in terms of migration and asylum since before 2015. He's neither a frantic refugee hater (like Dirk) or a Merkel apologist (like you). I trust his figures (which probably refer to failed asylum seekers which Germany is completely unable to deport). The context was a poster pleading with failed asylum seekers to deport themselves (since the Germany government is unable to deport them).
Tacitus 2 | 692    
25 Nov 2018  #414
I know Hammel and I doubt that he would make such a blatantly false claim.
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
25 Nov 2018  #415
I doubt that he would make such a blatantly false claim.

twitter.com/AndrewHammel1/status/1064852574128521216

The discussion was provoked by this:

twitter.com/leyink/status/1064835924373250048
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
  25 Nov 2018  #416
Germany is completely unable to deport

This is actually the key failing of the whole migration crisis if you ask me. Asylum seekers should never be in the position of freedom before their claim is assessed, but at the same time, they shouldn't be left waiting for months for a decision. I'm very, very much in favour of a solution that provides for immediate detention, but at the same time, providing for a very quick and effective decision and appeal. It shouldn't take more than 24 hours to determine that some guy from sub-Saharan Africa isn't actually in any danger, or that the guy speaking Arabic as spoken in Morocco clearly isn't from Syria.

The 40% comes from Andrew Hammel

It seems that it actually comes by means of the Gatestone Institute, so I'd be careful with that one. The original numbers came from Soeren Kern, who is a typical right wing hawk (anti-Iran, anti-Islam, posts misleading stuff on Twitter etc.)
mafketis 16 | 6,247    
25 Nov 2018  #417
the guy speaking Arabic as spoken in Morocco clearly isn't from Syria

German (or EU?) policy at one point actually specifically prevented translators from mentioning things like that.
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
25 Nov 2018  #418
German policy, I think. Austria was doing it on their border, and it was proving quite effective at discouraging people from trying that route.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,618    :-(
  25 Nov 2018  #419
1/3 of them are already working.

B.S.... and even if that wete true thats a 66% unemployment rate. thats pathetic. the reason why is the large benefits they receive makr them not want to work. i cant think of any Europeans who have a 2/3 unemployment rate, granted thats a bs number but eben if it were true, anywhere in europe. youd never see 2 put of 3 poles unemployed in uk, germany, usa, etc

99% of asylum seekers are unemployed amd expected to be for 5 plus years and 3/4 of migrants are unemployed and expected to be for 5 plus years

ft.com/content/022de0a4-54f4-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f

Aydan Özoğuz, commissioner for immigration, refugees and integration, told the Financial Times that only a quarter to a third of the newcomers would enter the labour market over the next five years, and "for many others we will need up to 10".

so much for your long term economic benefit arguement...

lets not forget the tens of billions germany also spends on these people who arent even eu citizens

reuters.com/article/us-germany-budget-migrants-idUSKCN1IK0EG

m.dw.com/en/germany-spent-20-billion-euros-on-refugees-in-2016/a-38963299

20 bil in 2016 alone. nope not an economic burden at all. thats why merkel is jealously guarding them and not telling other countries to share the burden. more money is spent on these freeloaders majority of whom have no wish to work anytime soon as the numbers above prove as they receive more money and have more taxpayer provided housing, education, food, healthcare, etc than any sand box from which they came

also from ft

One in four refugees is now officially registered as having a job, a significant improvement from the numbers one year ago.

lol 75% unemployment is an improvement... sad...

About 80 per cent of adult refugees who came in 2015 arrived with neither an university education or vocational training, limiting the range of jobs that were available to them.

so much for merkels claim that doctors and engineers are pouring in..

Institute for employment research states 'despite the recent improvement, the refugee population is still far less likely than other foreigners to find work in Germany. The unemployment rate across the entire foreign population is 13.8 per cent. Among EU nationals, it is just 8.4 per cent.'

so like i said, other eu residents have 8% unemployment - never would you be in a country where a pl or romanian or whatever expat are 2/3 or 3/4 unemployed.
delphiandomine 85 | 16,868    
25 Nov 2018  #420
lol 75% unemployment is an improvement... sad...

Except there are significant barriers to them actually getting employed. They have to pass the "market test" to get a work permit, which is notoriously difficult in Germany.



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