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'Fort Trump' Military Base in Poland


undercover
2 Nov 2018 #361
So the statistics, which include the outflow of people but do not include the inflow of people are pretty much useless.

The number of people actually living in Poland now is at ~40 million and it's by far the highest number ever.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
2 Nov 2018 #362
....so you are one of those who gets how important immigration is?
Miloslaw 19 | 4,664
2 Nov 2018 #363
How important it is depends on the country and the. type of immigrants.
Here in The UK we certainly do not need any more unskilled immigrants.
Can we sell you some?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
2 Nov 2018 #364
The UK has lotsa advantages for immigrants...first of course their tradition as world spanning empire...which connects people from all continents to the UK. Then of course the language...as most foreigners speak at least abit of English.

(France is in a similiar situation...that's why France attracts millions from french speaking ex colonies)

Germany and Poland were never in the same colonial league...indian immigrants might not become homey in Warsaw or Berlin as naturally as in London.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,664
2 Nov 2018 #365
BB
What you say is all true but we need to be able to control our immigration.
We currently have no control over EU immigrants.
Half of my employees have Portuguese passports,some of them are Brazilians,but half of them are Indian,have never been to Portugal and can't speak Portuguese.,Portugal was not part of The British Empire.....The EU is a mess....
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
2 Nov 2018 #366
We currently have no control over EU immigrants.

You are sure?

euobserver.com/news/3943

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-259_en.htm

...Transitional arrangements have applied in most of the EU's enlargements and most recently also in the two last Accession Treaties of 2003 and 2005....

These measures allow Member States to restrict temporarily the right of workers from the countries that joined the EU in 2004 and 2007 to move freely to another Member State to work (namely Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, or "EU-8" countries which all joined in 2004, as well as Bulgaria and Romania or "EU-2" countries, which joined in 2007).

So...why couldn't the UK do what Germany and other countries did?

When I recall it correctly the "polish plumber" became a favourite scapegoat for the british tabloids and a not insignificant reason for Brexiters in their urge to stop the "flood". But as you can see...other EU countries handled that alot better...

Not the EU is to blame but british politicians!
Miloslaw 19 | 4,664
2 Nov 2018 #367
Because Portugal is not in your list.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,742
2 Nov 2018 #368
That of course nullifies everything else...you are right and I'm wrong! :)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
3 Nov 2018 #372
We currently have no control over EU immigrants.

And it was Poland that blocked a deal being made to allow the UK to place some restrictions on EU workers.
cms neuf 1 | 1,704
3 Nov 2018 #373
I presume those Portuguese are Goans who are entitled to a Portuguese passport - only those who were there when Portugal still ruled it (india invaded it in the late 60si think).

So even if you don't like them they have the same right to be in the UK as the many Britain to have settled to retire in Portugal.

Out of interest if you object to these guys why do you employ them? Surely you are exacerbating the problem? I'm not getting at you - just genuinely interested to hear your logic on that.
undercover
3 Nov 2018 #374
....so you are one of those who gets how important immigration is?

Of course I do but all depends on who you are actually importing.

Because there is no economic integration without a political one.

Really ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
3 Nov 2018 #375
Hardly comparable. They're nowhere near as economically integrated as the EU is, and goods still have to clear customs on the borders.
Tacitus 2 | 1,354
3 Nov 2018 #376
And it doesn't stop the economically more powerful country to demand renegotiations whenever it wants.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
3 Nov 2018 #377
Indeed. In this case, what does Poland have to offer?

Even agriculture is a problem because most Polish farms are small, so they simply don't have any real strength.
undercover
3 Nov 2018 #378
And it doesn't stop the economically more powerful country to demand renegotiations whenever it wants.

Oh my. Be very affraid. So what would be the German made trade scenerio for non-EU Poalnd ? This is a serious question. I'm asking about figures not your "feelings" and other nonsense.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
3 Nov 2018 #379
And it doesn't stop the economically more powerful country to demand renegotiations whenever it wants.

Just like the EU. France for example pressured the EU council to introduce new rules that would apply to workers temporarily delegated to another EU country. A move which is regarded as a direct hit into Polish and Hungarian workers.

The Eu is a club that constantly change the rules to suit the strongest members.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
3 Nov 2018 #380
It actually was aimed at the widespread abuse of workers from poorer EU countries, as they were often forced to work for long periods of time in rich countries for the wages from the poor country. Why would you oppose something that meant that workers would get paid fairly for the work that they're performing?

europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180524IPR04230/posting-of-workers-final-vote-on-equal-pay-and-working-conditions

Under the agreed text, all of the host country's remuneration rules must applyto posted workers.

That means that a Polish worker working in France has to be paid a French salary. How can you argue against that?

There's a rather good story here, showing how posted workers are often exploited: euobserver.com/social/142045

One can only wonder why someone would oppose new rules to protect Polish workers.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
3 Nov 2018 #381
It actually was aimed at the widespread abuse of workers from poorer EU countries

It was aimed at destroying the competitive edge of developing Central European economies

as they were often forced to work for long periods of time in rich countries

Nobody was forced to work. We're not talking about XIX century cotton plantation in West Virginia or a WWII German slave labour camp.

A truck driver used to be one of the best paid "working class" jobs in Poland. Those guys wanted to work as much as they could and make as much as much money as they can.

I don't know how long you lived in Poland but you don't understand a squat about Polish mentality
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
3 Nov 2018 #382
It was aimed at destroying the competitive edge of developing Central European economies

They should compete through skills, not through tolerating widespread exploitation of their workers.

Polish companies only complained because their advantage was based on cheap labour. Now they'll have to compete based on their skills and knowledge, while Polish workers will get paid fairly for the work that they do.

As for 'Polish mentality', they should be delighted that they'll now get paid the same as their colleagues in Western Europe for doing the same job.
undercover
3 Nov 2018 #383
There are no words to desribe you, filthy 5th columnist. The rules will be back soon after the competition gets destroyed, so it will be German companies delegating Polish workers to Germany. How about the workers of Lidl in Poland get the same wages as Lidl workers in Germany ? Is the holy EU going to do anything about it ?
Spike31 3 | 1,813
3 Nov 2018 #384
They should compete through skills, not through tolerating widespread exploitation of their workers.

Aren't you a cheeky one? :-)

You would want us to compete with developed economies who've already built the whole infrastructure in the past, like France or Netherlands, which is needed for a very well paid and skilled jobs without using the main advantage that Poland had to start with.

Poland is rapidly building the needed infrastructure like highways, ports, airports, arms industry, gaming industry and ll this will pay off handsomely in the future. But this, obviously, takes time.

Let's make a thought experiment:

How about we remove the whole automotive industry from Germany and then tell them to "use their skills" to make money. Yes, we'll tell them: you won't get your expensive tools and machinery, factories and the whole infrastructure will be removed and now sit on this greenfield and make a lot of money.

Or maybe you should say the same to Chinese in 1978 when they started to transform their economy and the only advantage over the developed economies they had was a cheap labour? And look where they are now.

Now with all the infrastructure they've built over the years they've started to create well paid and well skilled labour force, and a massive over 400 million strong middle class. They've became the second largest economy in the world due to their work ethics.

You are either not very bright or your intentions are less than noble. I think both.
undercover
3 Nov 2018 #385
How about we remove the whole automotive industry from Germany

No need to do that. Just lifting the crazy EU rules (eco and others) would get them in troubles. Germany impose such regulations upon EU to block any potential competiton. And then it turns out the wankers themselves are cheating, see the VW case.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
3 Nov 2018 #386
without using the main advantage that Poland had to start with.

So you're admitting that Polish workers are in fact worse than Western workers, and that the main advantage of Polish workers is that they're cheap?

That's a rather fatalist view of Poland, I have to say.

Just lifting the crazy EU rules (eco and others) would get them in troubles.

Damn rules stopping Janusz from doing his Janusz thing in business!

Poland wasn't bound by those rules before 2004, yet the country was an economic basketcase for most of the 1990's.
undercover
3 Nov 2018 #387
Here we go, the EUnuch, when proven to be totally wrong, goes for trolling. Feck off, clown.

his Janusz thing in business

Says a wanker, who has never even had a real job, let alone run a business.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,585
3 Nov 2018 #388
and that the main advantage of Polish workers is that they're cheap?

Well yeah... that's why mnc's build factories in Poland, not because they think Wawel is pretty or the CEO has a penchant for Slavic girls... that and the large labor force compared to other E Euro countries, the high education levels and many of them are bilingual especially the youth
Tacitus 2 | 1,354
3 Nov 2018 #389
@undercover

when proven to be totally wrong, goes for trolling. Feck off, clown.

Are you talking about yourself right now?
Spike31 3 | 1,813
3 Nov 2018 #390
That's a rather fatalist view of Poland, I have to say.

Nothing fatalist about that. I'm rather optimistic. Poland is using its competitive edge to get to the higher level just like many before us. Once there we will compete on the same level as other Western developed economies.

But I predict that by that time more than a half of those developed countries will lose its competitive edge and a high position in the world due to islamization and africanisation of the society and also an overly regulated and socialistic economies.

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