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'Fort Trump' Military Base in Poland


Dirk diggler 9 | 4,091    
25 Nov 2018  #421
oh please poles have been coming to germany for decades to work and continue to today. most dont speak fluent german yet they dont have a 75% unemployment rate. ditto with other eu nationals coming to germany.

why? because poles and others come to germany to WORK, not suck the teet of the german taxpayer dry to the tune of 20 bil a year and contribute nothing but issues like rape and terror. these people came to germany for the benefits. that is clear as day. that is why instead of settling in the first safe country they cross a dozen borders till they arrived in their desired welfare haven.

its the same reason why as soon as denmark cut its welfare payments they IMMEDIATELY scurried away to new welfare havens. now theyre keeping them purposely low to deter migrants because they know the majority omly come for the handouts

theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/01/denmark-slash-benefits-asylum-seekers-refugees
Tacitus 2 | 860    
25 Nov 2018  #422
@mafketis

Disappointing to see that Hammel just invents claims about refugees. I thought he was an honest critic, but obviously he can not be quoted in good faith.
mafketis 17 | 6,756    
25 Nov 2018  #423
Do have citations that would show that he's just inventing claims? Do you have more reliable figures?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,658    
25 Nov 2018  #424
If he's using the Gatestone Institute to source his numbers, then you have to be pretty sceptical about it. There's definitely valid reasons to research it, but he shouldn't be relying on something so obviously biased. The original source of the numbers was making claims about the German police not recording incidents properly, but it wasn't sourced.

I'd also like to see properly sourced data with references, though.

because poles and others come to germany to WORK

Poles never had problems getting work permits for various reasons, not least because Germany needed the labour and that they could do seasonal work without work permits. Quite a few critics have pointed out the insanity of granting asylum and then putting significant barriers in their path to actually work.
Crow 143 | 7,412    
25 Nov 2018  #425
If Poland don`t have politician that suggest Poland`s military neutrality, then people, all you who live in Poland, have most direct proof how is Poland ruled from outside of Poland. Very simple. It will be as others want. Yes, your politicians will tell you to pray and yes, even that is told them from outside.

Poles, you are in sh**. No, not that my people isn `t in sh**. Yes it is. We all swim in some kind of sh**.

And yes, when I say `we all swim....` I point on us who are second class Europeans. First class Europeans also swim but less then rest of us.
Ironside 47 | 9,503    
25 Nov 2018  #426
closer integration and independence

Dude, you contradict yourselfers. Do you even know what you talking about? Closer integration a la EU/Germany mode is just selling independence for some pocked money.

Its work for Germany because basically they do as they pleases in the EU. Lead by example and surrender your independence to Brussel then you can talk.

So far reality is that Poland is treated as a colony. So stop spewing BS.

[quote=delphiandomine]The Americans would sell Poland again tomorrow if it suited them to do so/quote]
The Germans or the EU wouldn't? WTF are waffling about? You're not stupid why you talk stupid? Do better!

Hell the EU and Germany has been doing it all the time? Selling out Poland's economical interest for some money and gas. They don't even care to lie about it but do it brazenly in your face. Imagine how it gonna change if they will have a full power over /Poland.

Hey that is only a start. Bides in a geopolitical interest of the USA is to build and buff up eastern Europe to keep the balance, stability and peace in this part of the world.

Germany want to be free of the USA and project power in this region using the EU, in agreement with Russia.
There is three problems with such a plan:
1. Germany are not good at building any kind of coalition. Their mindset is too rigid for it. Their subconsciously think in terms of a rank, order, hierarchy and authority. A very bad combination when it comes to build coalitions, hell even to have satellites and vassal states. One need to have a certain doze of flexibility and magnanimity Germans lack 2. Their plan to work depends on Russia and that is the country that cannot be trusted. As always German short term gains are blinding them to long term problems.

3. It has been proved before. That experiment had been tested in the field. They are not able to provide a long term stability.
Crow 143 | 7,412    
25 Nov 2018  #427
So far reality is that Poland is treated as a colony.

You pane do have heart to admit it, don`t you. My respect.

Germany want to be free of the USA and project power in this region using the EU, in agreement with Russia.

No. Right now reality is that US and Russia together pacify Germany and France. EU (ie Franco-Germania) is problem to both, to US and to Russia.

Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania, ..... all German, British and French regional projects in deal with Islamic league and Turkey and plus US Clinton was involved. With Trump, priorities to US change. So, these projects are all questioned. On those projects US now talk to Russia first and just then with Germany and France. Sure, speaking of Europe, Vatican supports US-Russia deals.
Tacitus 2 | 860    
25 Nov 2018  #428
Do have citations that would show that he's just inventing claims? Do you have more reliable figures?

Of course.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-45419466

bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime

1. Germany are not good at building any kind of coalition.

That is not really true though. If German politicians exceeded in anything foreign policy related in the last 73, it was building coalitons and multilateralism in general.

The Germans or the EU wouldn't?

Of course not. It is in our biggest interest to have a stable, democratic Poland that protects our Eastern flank. We have certainly more interest in that than e.g. the USA.
Spike31 2 | 870    
25 Nov 2018  #429
our biggest interest to have a stable, democratic Poland that protects our Eastern flank

...and in the interest of Poland is to keep Germans away from our internal politics (that is justice system, "refugee" quotas) and not let them influence our mass media.

Polonization of German owned media, in the same manner in which Germany protects its domestic media market, would be a welcomed step to start with.

And I guess all of this needs to be backed by a sheer military power for Germany to start understanding that the days of "screwing around" in Central Europe are over.
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
25 Nov 2018  #430
all of this needs to be backed by a sheer military power

And who's going to pay for all this "sheer military power"? LOL!
Crow 143 | 7,412    
25 Nov 2018  #431
and in the interest of Poland is to keep Germans away

That reminds me. You know when venerable Trump gave candies to Merkel and said- `Here, Angela. Don't say I never give you anything`?

t
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
25 Nov 2018  #432
this needs to be backed by a sheer military power for Germany to start understanding that the days of "screwing around" in Central Europe are over.

Please explain...how should that work.

And what about the Billions of (also german financed) EU-funds...wouldn't that the first and most important step to regain total independence?
TheOther 5 | 3,683    
25 Nov 2018  #433
@Crow

Candy ... that'll teach her. LOL.
Look at Trump's face and posture, and you'll know who was really the boss in the room. Hint: it wasn't him.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #434
Donald Trump: Time to Defend Our Borders, Not Those of Foreign Nations

Fresh from Trump-Central

breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/26/donald-trump-time-to-defend-our-borders-not-those-of-foreign-nations

Doesn't look good for a "Fort Trump" in far away foreign Poland...

Maybe a european defense force in cooperation with near by neighbours looks not so bad anymore...
Tacitus 2 | 860    
27 Nov 2018  #435
Why anyone in Poland would place their trust on Trump is beyond me. Not only does he seem to have an awful lot of sympathy for Putin, he has also shown a remarkeable disinterest in the refion (e.g. Ukraine). He might even be totally ignorant on the subject, considering that he confused the Baltic states with the Balkans.
Spike31 2 | 870    
27 Nov 2018  #436
Why anyone in Poland would place their trust on Trump is beyond me

Yes, we should put trust in Merkel or Macron. Have you got any more jokes for today, Tacitus? :-)

Not only does he seem to have an awful lot of sympathy for Putin, he has also shown a remarkeable disinterest in the refion

And Germany in cooperation with Russia is building a North Stream II pipeline which will directly hit Ukraine and undirectly the rest of Central Europe
Tacitus 2 | 860    
27 Nov 2018  #437
Yes, we should put trust in Merkel or Macron. Have you got any more jokes for today, Tacitus? :-)

Merkel has at least a friendly attitude towards Poland and has shown great interest in stabilizing the region. Trump has shown neither.

And Germany in cooperation with Russia is building a North Stream II pipeline which will directly hit Ukraine

Merkel has done more for the Ukraine during the last few years than any other Western politician. She is the one holding together the European sanction regime against Russia, and she has been praised by Ukrainian government for it.
Spike31 2 | 870    
27 Nov 2018  #438
Merkel (...) has shown great interest in stabilizing the region.

She has shown a great interest in forcing Poland to take in muslim 'refugees' that she has invited herself to Germany [and Europe].

Merkel has done more for the Ukraine during the last few years than any other Western politician

And now Germany is screwing them big time with North Stream II pipeline in the name of becoming a main hub for natural gas in Central Europe. And in consequence to dictate prices and resell it.

Too late though, Poland is about to sign a contract for a construction of Baltic Pipe which will be also able to provide Norwegian gas to V4 countries and Croatia.

thenews.pl/1/12/Artykul/387979,Baltic-Pipe-construction-contract-to-be-signed-by-December-official

And also signed a contract for American gas which is cheaper than Russian gas at a current contract prices

ft.com/content/5272ba76-d1df-11e8-a9f2-7574db66bcd5

Two important steps for disintegrating the German project of 'mitteleuropa' and being independent from Russian energy blackmail at the same time.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #439
Frankly...I wouldn't trust someone like you with my energy, Spike! Poland should look into the mirror first why felt the need to cut out Poland.

You hate Germany, you support the anti-german behaviour of the PiSser in Warsaw, you are treating Germany as an enemy...and you dare to whine that Germany looks elsewhere???

What a hypocrit!

Not to mention that I never hear you protest when you keep your hand out for german money...that is good enough for you.

You are repeating the same error as the Poles always did in their past...putting their blind trust to far away countries and then whining why they are left alone again when the **** hits the fan.

You never learn...
dolnoslask 5 | 2,456    
27 Nov 2018  #440
You are repeating the same error as the Poles always did in their past...putting their blind trust to far away countries

Sorry bud got to call you out on this one, Polish history proves that our closets neighbours have always been the aggressors, millions of dead poles would testify to that, given our joint history why should Poland trust her neighbours today, maybe you should not be surprised that many poles would put their trust in other nations who historically their greatest allies the UK and the US, you may argue in voice only but never have they invaded unlike Germany, Russia and many other so called neighbours.

I would like to state that I personally am confident that Germany holds no ill will towards Poland, but I would ask only for understanding for the many Poles, who through lessons of history would not be as confident as I am, patience and understanding is the key here, in time relationships will normalise grow and create prosperity for all.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #441
given our joint history why should Poland trust her neighbours today,

Poland wasn't the innocent damsel in distress...it had his own Commonwealth once ffs. Don't paint Poland weaker as it is. Europe always had been a shark tank...we all had once or several times lain low or be on top, depending on the skills (or lack of it) of it's leaders that time. So what!

At Germany's lowest point, the Thirty Years war, we barely could keep it together as a people, we needed a full century to find our footing again...our murderers had been our "dearest" neighbours too.

.......in the most embattled realms, such as W├╝rttemberg, more than 50 percent of the people died or disappeared;

britannica.com/place/Germany/The-Thirty-Years-War-and-the-Peace-of-Westphalia

It's a matter of physics that the most history a country has is with those nearby, not far away. Doesn't mean that far away countries are better, your country just hadn't had the chance to build up so many grudges together. To believe you would dance kumbaya around a tree if fate had just put your country only elsewhere but here is an illusion.

why should Poland trust her neighbours today,

Trust is for turds! Nobody is asking for trust...or as they say: Nations don't have friends but common interests!

What Poland desperatedly needs is a clear view on the realities and it's real interests. To not to repeat the error of isolating Poland it should, it NEEDS to involve itself heavily with it's neighbours.

Never before in history had Poland been part of the same unions and alliance like most of Europe, economically, politically, militarily...that is a historical uniqe chance. That's what is securing Polands and also Germany's freedom an security. It should work on that, not pis*sing on it!

understanding for the many Poles, who through lessons of history would not be as confident as I am, patience and understanding is the key here

No, it isn't! Our history is used/abused as a tool to beat the Germans with...it is highly destructive and will in the end destroy this chance our countries have gotten.

Spike is wallowing so much in the history that it clouds it's judgement to act in Polands best interest.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,456    
27 Nov 2018  #442
No, it isn't! Our history is used as a tool to beat the Germans with.

Your history is a matter of documented fact, the millions dead are testament to past errors , Poland would have to go a long way to match the well oiled machinery of destruction that Germany brought to Europe in the past.

I beg to ask the question, but maybe Germans beat themselves up when they face the reality of their own history.

You responded to my post with a whole load of nationalistic splurge about shark tanks , happens that Poland was always the bait.

If you spent one moment to think about my post it was written with a positive view towards Germany and future relations.

Mate i never took you for a nationalist I hope i'm wrong.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #443
Your history is a matter of documented fact,

And where am I disputing that? Did you actually get my gist?

We can talk hours about the history if you want...I'm all for it, but then we should go out and build a common future together.

If you are unable to, then all the fear- and hate mongering of the likes like Spike will come to pass...a self fulfilling prophecy!

I took you for one who is interested in that, I hope I'm not wrong!
dolnoslask 5 | 2,456    
27 Nov 2018  #444
Did you actually get my gist?

I may not have, I apologise if I over reacted.

we should go out and build a common future together.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

That's exactly

hate mongering of the likes like Spike

You shouldn't pay any attention to that, your generation has nothing to defend, I just ask for understanding that there are still people alive like myself who were deeply affected by prior bad history, we need to work hard to make a better future.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #445
Exactly the point I was trying to make.

*phew* :)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #446
I just ask for understanding that there are still people alive like myself who were deeply affected by prior bad history,

I can understand that...but I don't believe Spike belongs to these people. That's what makes me abit angry some times...add to that a lacking english and you get posts like that! :)
dolnoslask 5 | 2,456    
27 Nov 2018  #447
*phew* :)

Glad to see you would rather comment the slip of the finger over the control button than the content of the post.

Wasted my time trying talking to you haven't I.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,963    
27 Nov 2018  #448
Okay...you lost me here...I better go.

'night!
dolnoslask 5 | 2,456    
27 Nov 2018  #449
I don't believe Spike belongs to these people. That's what makes me abit angry some times

If you belong to the people who fought on any side of those terrible conflicts, the one thing you know for sure is never to repeat those errors or allow the past to spoil a better future for all.

.I better go.

Thats not always the answer, I think we just suffered a moment of bad post timing.

Night Night sleep tight.
Spike31 2 | 870    
27 Nov 2018  #450
Glad to see you would rather comment the slip of the finger over the control button than the content of the post.

That's just his usual arrogance, mate

To not to repeat the error of isolating Poland it should, it NEEDS to involve itself heavily with its neighbours.

In a modern global world where distances are not much of an issue anymore Poland can shape its foreign relations freely and doesn't have to be dependant on its nearest neighbour(s). So Poland can form any alliance that suits Polish national interest.

I think that being economically involved with the EU and forming a strong military alliance with the US [and the UK] is the best option for Poland. And also building a strong trade connection with China to have an viable alternative to EU market and thus having a better negotiation platform.

And it seems that's exactly what the government is doing right now.

but I don't believe Spike belongs to these people. That's what makes me abit angry some times.

Of course it makes you angry when I'm pointing out German hypocrisy in general and those half-truths that you're feeding to other forum members in particular.

But remember wise words of Yoda from Star Wars: "Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering" :-)


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