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Donald Tusk's Government of Poland Continues to Oppress Poles


THE HITMAN - | 236
8 Mar 2011 #61
Including my salary. I've just checked, and I've more or less had a payrise this year of 20%. Not bad, especially seeing as petrol has only gone from 4.30 to 4.85 in two years.

Read my post again and try understanding what I wrote. There hasn,t been an election yet.
gumishu 11 | 5,191
8 Mar 2011 #62
and my mum just told me she's seen petrol a couple of groszy above 5 PLN - if it wasn't BP ultimate then it's not quite cheap
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #63
Read my post again and try understanding what I wrote. There hasn,t been an election yet.

If PO wins, my salary will increase further no doubt. The stability that PO brought to Polish politics (including being the first democratically elected Government with the chance to win re-election) is very attractive to foreign investors, especially given Tusk's policy of warm relations with neighbouring countries.

Anyway, I'm not bothered if things get more expensive. It means the country will reach Western levels sooner rather than later - no bad thing.

What's actually more likely to happen is that Tusk will chop a lot of the social welfare stuff - causing pain and misery among the poor, but will make middle class business owners (like myself) far better off, especially if we can start to hire and fire people without all the usual nonsense.
THE HITMAN - | 236
8 Mar 2011 #64
and my mum just told me she's seen petrol a couple of groszy above 5 PLN

Yeh, Delph blowing hot air again.

are you British HITMAN? - if so how on earth are you so 'PiS-minded'

Citizen of the world. I have my opinions just the same as everyone else, whether they like it or not.
I don,t regard myself pro or anti any political party, because they,re all the same. But I back the majority, the common people, who should have civil rights. Just because I may be better off than most, doesn,t mean I look down my nose at them, as if I had a feather up my arse.

Is there total democracy in Poland ? No. The government "say" and the people "do", that,s why I agree with Torq on this issue, that the people are oppressed, afraid to open their mouths and stand up for their rights.

middle class business owners (like myself) far better off, especially if we can start to hire and fire people without all the usual nonsense.

Nice attitude. Hope you go bankrupt.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #65
Yeh, Delph blowing hot air again.

Just filled up the car today - paid 4.86 from Orlen.

You're welcome to come and do the same in PoznaƄ if you want. BP is higher - but for some reason, their prices are always 5-10gr more expensive than the rest.

Is there total democracy in Poland ? No.

Of course there is. The proliferation of political parties since 1989 tells us that there is very real democracy.

The government "say" and the people "do", that,s why I agree with Torq on this issue, that the people are oppressed, afraid to open their mouths and stand up for their rights.

Have you considered that perhaps Polish people *like* this state of affairs? They went from what, the 1920's to 1991 without having a democratic election - is it any surprise that people may actually enjoy being told what to do by the Government?

The people are not oppressed in the slightest. Oppression is being told who to vote for by a party which has its own dominance written into the Constitution of the country.

Sheesh, democracy in Poland is 20 years old. You can't expect miracles from a country where the people are fundamentally socialist in nature.

Nice attitude. Hope you go bankrupt.

Ask anyone - the labour laws in Poland are a joke.
pgtx 29 | 3,159
8 Mar 2011 #66
petrol a couple of groszy above 5 PLN

paid 4.86 from Orlen.

well, in the States gas went up also because of the situation in Africa....
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #67
Yeah, it went up here, from around 4.60-ish to 4.90ish, give or take 5gr.

Nothing to fuss about. Means a little bit less in my pocket - but I can just drive more economically, so no net change.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
8 Mar 2011 #68
4.60-ish to 4.90ish

tisk tisk what we pay for a gallon ya'll for a liter, and how much less does an average Pole make again?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #69
You can't compare the EU to the USA, it's just not comparable in so many different ways.

For instance - it's already been mentioned on here before that your property taxes are incredibly high. Polish property taxes are laughably low. Monthly passes for public transport in American cities is much higher than in Polish cities.
THE HITMAN - | 236
8 Mar 2011 #70
Ask anyone - the labour laws in Poland are a joke.

Ask anyone how employers abuse workers rights in Poland. Is that a joke ?
pgtx 29 | 3,159
8 Mar 2011 #71
tisk tisk what we pay for a gallon ya'll for a liter

anyhow, how much you pay to fill up your Tahoe junk? hehe...
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #72
Ask anyone how employers abuse workers rights in Poland. Is that a joke ?

You need to talk with some employment lawyers. The Polish court system is so heavily weighted towards employees that it's not even funny - along with Poland having some incredibly tough labour laws, again, weighted against the employer. Many of the laws are still in force from Communism - when it was fine and well to have generous provisions because it meant nothing anyway.

Have you ever witnessed a check by the guys responsible for workplace health and safety?

I won't even bother going into the absurdity that is holiday entitlement being based upon your education, not upon your job. One of the worst aspects of Polish law is the way that an office monkey is entitled to more holidays than someone who performs a hard physical job in all weathers.

We won't even discuss the absolute nonsense of the trade union laws. Needless to say, the shop steward being unsackable (yet having the right to do next to nothing apart from organise the union in the workplace) is one of the many things that prevents Poland from really developing her own infrastructure. Foreign companies can always close a factory - but it's not so easy for a Polish business to do.
THE HITMAN - | 236
9 Mar 2011 #73
against the employer

From your point of view being an employer. So you have your issues too. Like I said, the failings need to be taken up with Brussels. Poland must comply with EU legislation in order to reach a happy medium. Unfortunately, Poland wants to be a member but do things their own stubborn way, hence the blame lies with the governing party. Have they the best interest of the people at heart ?
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
9 Mar 2011 #74
You can't compare the EU to the USA

Exactly you can't, people's money goes much further in the States, you all pay a lot more for gasoline, housing, food etc. property tax? depends where you live in Philadelphia it's 1000 dollars a year, New York much higher. When you compare all the things life in America still is the most comfortable.
Harry
9 Mar 2011 #75
When you compare all the things life in America still is the most comfortable.

Some people don't want a comfortable life, some people want a life that they can look back on with pride. That is why some of us are working to build a better Poland, while other people (who aren't even Polish) just get our country a bad name.
PennBoy 76 | 2,437
9 Mar 2011 #76
anyhow, how much you pay to fill up your Tahoe junk? hehe...

I have a new Maxima LOL but thanx for asking, now how much does it take to fill your Astra classic and what portion of your paycheck goes to paying for gasoline?!? hahaha
Harry
9 Mar 2011 #77
Care to make any attempt to discuss the topic of this thread, or do you prefer to just tell tall tales about yourself while attempting to insult others?

If you want an argument, perhaps you could be so kind as to head over to the random thread in off-topic, there are already a few comments waiting there for you.
Ironside 49 | 10,311
9 Mar 2011 #78
When you compare all the things life in America still is the most comfortable.

And your point is ?
I would say that the most comfortable place to live is Australia.

anyhow, how much you pay to fill up your Tahoe junk? hehe...

hhehe ....tell us what you drive ? Being gold-digger and all you should be able to drive a pretty expensive cars, or maybe you have not been successful at being a gold digger at all ?

Ironside: would you like to say anything about the topic of this thread?

I already did, what to say more? Tusk's government should be lined against the wall at shoot to set an example to others !

the insults are flying thick and fast and the thread has been completely derailed.

HA!? Look who is talking ?somebody who is insulting people for a sport!
Harry
9 Mar 2011 #79
Tusk's government should be lined against the wall at shoot to set an example to others !

A somewhat extreme solution perhaps.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
9 Mar 2011 #80
From your point of view being an employer. So you have your issues too. Like I said, the failings need to be taken up with Brussels. Poland must comply with EU legislation in order to reach a happy medium. Unfortunately, Poland wants to be a member but do things their own stubborn way, hence the blame lies with the governing party. Have they the best interest of the people at heart ?

The issue I have as an employer is that it's virtually impossible to give someone a proper work contract without taking on a hell of a lot of risk - while I can still employ them easily and relatively risk-free, it screws them over because I can't give them the proper work contract. The amount of young people hired on "umowa zlecenie" and "umowa o dzielo" is shocking - yet it's all because the proper umowa o prace is incredibly restrictive.

This all relates to the current political setup - if you look at the electoral math, there's absolutely no way that PO could reform labour law. PiS and the SLD will block it, and the PSL and certain elements of PO will block it as well - meaning that there isn't a parliamentary majority to get the legislation through. The Government can't be blamed for that - it's not their fault that over 50% of Poles like their socialist provisions.

I'd like to see similar laws to the UK in force - no more compulsory checks by a doctor before starting work, no more crazy holiday provision based on education, etc etc. But - the people don't want it. While the voters are happy to give PO another chance in 2011, I don't doubt that big business is reminding Tusk that their support in 2015 will vanish if they don't enact reforms.

(edited as per Harry's sensible post)
Crow 139 | 8,609
9 Mar 2011 #81
"Jebi Tuskovu vladu i politiku! - Screw the government and Tusk's policies!"

Serbian ultras protest against PM Tusk

On 6 June, during a World Cup qualifier between Austria and Serbia, banners could be seen among the crowd in Belgrade saying, in Polish,: "Screw the government and Tusk's policies."

The banner went further, saying "Kosovo is Serbian," and "The whole of Poland is screaming."

Cooperation between Serbian and Polish 'ultras' is not uncommon. At several games last year at stadiums in Poland - Lodz, Krakow, Kielce, Zabrze, and Grodzisko Wielkopolskie - pro-Serbian nationalist banners, in both Serbian and Polish, read: "Kosovo is Serbian."

In fact, ultra groups from many countries around Europe have been involved in the "Kosovo is Serbian" campaign.

Stu 12 | 522
9 Mar 2011 #82
Serbian ultras protest against PM Tusk

And you think that decent Polish people, from whatever political affiliation, are happy with the "support" of a couple of Serb football hooligans?! Man ... that stuff you are smoking must be really potent ... !
Crow 139 | 8,609
11 Mar 2011 #83
Stu

Stu one, you know what i your problem? you simple can`t comprehend how is Poland really great. Great, in spiritual, moral, territorial, any sense. That`s your problem Stu one.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
11 Mar 2011 #84
It may not be what Crow wants to hear, but people, either in Poland or elsewhere, don't think of Serbia at all. It isn't a major economy. it isn't in a strategic location, it isn't in an alliance with anybody. In short it is irrelevant to world affairs.

It only really comes to people's attention when they start murdering their neighbours in Srebrenica or Kosovo, and then it is dealt with quickly and effectively.
Crow 139 | 8,609
11 Mar 2011 #85
JonnyM

and your problem is that you think of Poles as of naive people. Poles have all historical reasons to trust to Serbs (Racowie) and in the same time, not to trust to all who today speaks against Serbs and spread anti-Serbian propaganda.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
11 Mar 2011 #86
Given the events of the 90s together with their petulant behaviour over Kosovan independence and their strategic irrelevance, it seems Poland has every reason to ignore them.
Stu 12 | 522
11 Mar 2011 #87
you simple can`t comprehend how is Poland really great

Don't talk BS, Crow (then again, what is new?). I've been to Poland more often than you have ever been or ever will be. I've got an apartment in Wroclaw, nuthead. I know more about Poland than you will ever know.

Poles have all historical reasons to trust to Serbs (Racowie)

They have no reason whatsoever to trust some murderous, raping bunch of idiots, let alone a couple of football hooligans.
Crow 139 | 8,609
11 Mar 2011 #88
Given the events of the 90s together with their petulant behaviour over Kosovan independence and their strategic irrelevance, it seems Poland has every reason to ignore them.

on the contrary. After NATO/EU/Islamic league attack on Serbs who defended itself, Poles have no reason to trust to so called west. Today Serbs, tomorrow it may be Poland. NATO/EU would always easily found reason to attack Slavs.

See, Serbs (Racowie) never betrayed Poles, never sold Polish interests. Britain, France, USA,... they are something else. Poles can`t trust them.

Nationalist Jan Lopuszanski, of a small Catholic right-wing group, made his warning even more explicit. If, today, NATO's putative right to be a judge of other nations and their governments and to enforce these decisions by way of violence is recognized, this right may tomorrow be directed against any nation in the world, Poland included, he warned. He apparently forgot, among other things, that Poland was now a NATO member.

Source: Splintered Unity: Polish Politics and the Crisis, Konstanty Gebert
law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol8num3/feature/splintered.html

They have no reason whatsoever to trust some murderous, raping bunch of idiots, let alone a couple of football hooligans.

actually, NATO and EU compromise itself among Poles, on the Serbian question. Investigation of Polish parliamentary group proved Serbian innocence.

The credibility of NATO's critics was somewhat undermined in mid-May, when Ikonowicz and Sierakowska acting against the explicit instructions of their party undertook a fact-finding mission to Belgrade and the refugee camps in Macedonia, returning with a full condemnation of both the raids and their rationale. Ikonowicz reported that he had failed to find any eyewitnesses to Serb atrocities among Albanian refugees, while according to him refugees said that they had fled not the Serb army but the KLA and NATO bombs.

Source: Splintered Unity: Polish Politics and the Crisis, Konstanty Gebert
law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol8num3/feature/splintered.html
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
11 Mar 2011 #89
on the Serbian question.

There is no 'Serbian question'. The place is culturally, strategically, historically and economically irrelevant. It barely exists except in the minds of its residents and those of its neighbours that it bullies.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
11 Mar 2011 #90
What about the Poland's nursery bill?


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