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Donald Tusk's Government of Poland Continues to Oppress Poles


isthatu2 4 | 2,704
8 Mar 2011 #31
How can you link raising the VAT for babyware by Tusk with Kaczynski pardoning a crook
is beyond me.

How you can make the link between a rise in the cost of baby clothes(learn to fekkin knit...) to Hans Frank,and neither i imagine could any other sane person.....thats just either dumb as fek or sick as fek.
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #32
So will you make a donation to the State Treasury to cover the cost of your kids' education or
do you expect it to be subsidised by those who choose not to use the state education system?

Seeing as the state education is supported by the taxes of all working individuals (also my
humble self) I see no reason why I should additionaly support it. However, if the quality
of private schools in Poland improves so they give better education than the state ones,
I will certainly and gladly pay for it.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some tax breaks for those who educate
their children outside the state system. That would seem fair.

b) Even when I did teach full-time I almost never taught kids.

But you taught people, who wanted to become teachers themselves, didn't you?
If there hadn't been kids for them to teach, they wouldn't have come to you for lessons.

It was the government recognising the need for Poles to be able to speak English that brought me to Poland.

:)

Yes, I am aware of the fact that you were the cavalry coming in the answer to Polish
government's desperate cry for help; however, it wasn't the government, but the people
themselves who knew that it was necessary for them to be able to speak English.
Polish government might have imported the teachers of Mongolian, but if there hadn't been
people willing to learn Mongolian, those teachers would have been useless.

Good for you. But it's not purely altruistic, is it? Will you be transferring your help when your
relatives no longer need it?

No, I won't. That would be irrational. I think I see your point, but the VAT rise will hit all
the families with children, including those who need state assistance. Some families don't
need the lower rates, but many will suffer because of raising them.

How you can make the link between a rise in the cost of baby clothes (...) to Hans Frank

All it requires is a bit of historical knowledge and a bit of viciousness ;)

Hey - I know I'm exaggerating, but tax rises pi*s me off, especially if they hit poorest families the most.
convex 20 | 3,978
8 Mar 2011 #33
Hey - I know I'm exaggerating, but tax rises pi*s me off, especially if they hit poorest families the most.

Why are poor families having children that they can't afford? It's an obligation, not a right.

If there are less children, Harry could have spent more time with less people producing a higher quality teacher in the end. Quality over quantity.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #34
Why are poor families having children that they can't afford? It's an obligation, not a right.

I think we all know that one of the biggest problems in Poland is where families with dreadfully low incomes are reproducing like rabbits. These children haven't got a chance - they're from poor breeding stock, and any sort of encouragement (especially financial bribes) is just going to encourage them to breed further - which is not good for a country that had its intellectual elite destroyed once.

One example of a lunacy policy is with Poznan MPK - families with more than 4 children are entitled to 95% off public transport fares. WHY? In other countries, children can walk to school - why not in Poland, and why do they need to travel by public transport? The only fair exception would be with high schools, where there's not a guaranteed right to go to the local school.

Now - perhaps a sensible policy would be to deliver tax breaks to families whose children are high achievers. That way, we encourage intelligent families to reproduce, while financially punishing those who want to sit around in poverty having children because they don't know what else to do.
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #35
Why are poor families having children that they can't afford?

Gee, I don't know. But they do, and we can either help those families to raise and educate
their children, or we can say "hey, you poor destitute half-wits, you shouldn't have those kids
in the first place, now you won't be able to feed and clothe them - HA HA!"

Somehow, I prefer the former solution.

If there are less children, Harry could have spent more time with less people producing a higher quality teacher in the end. Quality over quantity.

If there had been fewer children, Harry would have had fewer clients (there would have been
demand for fewer teachers) and would have earned less money.
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
8 Mar 2011 #36
I know Torq,your hearts in the right place,but come on,comparing tax rises with systematic mass murder of hostages....really?
Its the same story here re taxes T' . The multi millionare's of the Tory party get in power and suddenly the burdon of tax is on the poorest sectors of sociaty......because,"we are all in this together." HHHmmmm, easy to say when your sitting on a 30 million plus personal nest egg,not counting the inheritence when daddy pops orf.....
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #37
Oh, well - I exaggerated "a bit".

Godwin's law ;)
isthatu2 4 | 2,704
8 Mar 2011 #38
I dont think you actually mentioned the N or H word,so an inteligent hail mary play there round Godwin with bringing up a more minor functionary in a certain mid 20th Cs oppressive regime :)

edit,ok,you mentioned the N word....but still,fair play,not the H word ;)
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
8 Mar 2011 #39
In other countries, children can walk to school

In other countries children don't walk to school either - e.g. in the UK they are typically ferried in cars by their parents, and some schools have bold initiatives in place with slogans like "walk to school once a week".

why not in Poland, and why do they need to travel by public transport?

1. Schools, even in the local catchment area, are often far away from where the children live. In a city like Poznań walking to school probably means crossing very busy roads several times. 2. Why public transport? Because that's what it's for. Not everyone has a car, you know? And what if dad drives off to work early in the morning - should the kids remain stranded because mom can't afford tram tickets for her 6 children? Also, public transport is not only for going to school. Why should a family (who is dedicated enough to the cause of replicating and multiplying the Polish nation to have a lot of kids and bear most of the financial burden of that) have to pay through the nose for simple pleasures such as going to the ZOO, cinema, or museum together - or totally stay at home? Again, not everyone owns a car and not everyone lives in the city centre, you know? I fully support Poznań MPK on this.

while financially punishing those who want to sit around in poverty having children because they don't know what else to do.

What if their children are would-be high achievers, but because they are brought up in poverty and neglect, we will never know?
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #40
I dont think you actually mentioned the N or H word

I did.

Moreover, if they cancel the child tax deduction, I will start a similar thread
in which I will use the N and H words again, and I will also somehow bring Göring
and Kutschera to the equation (I'm still not sure how to do it, but I'll think of something.)

:)

but still,fair play,not the H word ;)

Did you actually read the first post of this thread?
convex 20 | 3,978
8 Mar 2011 #41
Gee, I don't know. But they do, and we can either help those families to raise and educate
their children, or we can say "hey, you poor destitute half-wits, you shouldn't have those kids
in the first place, now you won't be able to feed and clothe them - HA HA!"

Rewarding failure is bad policy. I'm sure that we all have stories, but I've got one here. I live in a pretty nice building. Old construction, high ceilings, good area, all around nice place. A family lives above me in a government owned apartment. It's the only one in the building. These are the folks that keep me up at night, boxing, yelling, lots of kurwa's to be heard. Nearly impossible to kick out, but that's beside the point. Anyway, both parents are drunks, and there are five children. Two older, and three younger. I've gone up there countless times, and ended up having to lay out one of the older ones for beating the crap out of his little brother. Apparently I was the bad guy in that situation according to the authorities, and nothing was done, but again, I digress. Anyway, quick and dirty of it is that the eldest daughter is pregnant with her second bundle of joy. The eldest son has one of his own too. Was this the next generation that you had in mind? It seems the story is repeated over and over again (defiantly not singling out Poland here). It's what happens when you throw token amounts money at people to breed. Do you think those kids are going to end up being much different from their parents? Will that be a net gain for Polish society (and the welfare state), or would the gain be better achieved from a household that can afford to have children and raise them right? Personally, I'll go for the "quality" choice over quantity.

I'm for taking care of the families, it should be done through charity, like paying for private English lessons for two of the kids upstairs. It comes directly from my pocket, and they see that someone is paying for it, and believes in them. It's a direct relationship, much better than handouts.

If there had been fewer children, Harry would have had fewer clients (there would have been
demand for fewer teachers) and would have earned less money.

Negative. If there had been fewer children, more resources could have been spread amongst them, and Harry could charge more money (and thereby attracting the best possible talent) and spend more time with individual students (as they can afford to pay a premium for foreign teachers).
gumishu 11 | 5,155
8 Mar 2011 #42
Government-controlled media? What Government controlled media?

but government-sponsored media is pretty accurate description - president of Warsaw (you know her) subsidied the privately-owned Legia warszawa with some 400 million złotych for their new stadium - the owner of Legia is ITI group

the government also spent similar round sums on various promotional campaigns in the private TVN and Polsat or contracted these media groups to produce such campaigns (instead of using the state-owned TV) - an example of this here:

Campaign in Poland to promote math bought by the government mostly in private TV - and its largest part of the niche stations - kilometer stinks gigantic scam.

Why ? Firstly, the campaign will run on channel TV4 at 18.55 . RSS is a niche , a small reception - guaranteed. No sense. How much would it cost , and so the money goes clearly in the mud. Secondly - just cost. Employee TV Bogdan Bear, who spent a quarter century in various fairly important positions on TV , says that about 20 thousand . gold per episode is a gigantic amount . This campaign is planned for 75 episodes which should cost up 1.5 million. The cost of purchase of airtime in TV niche should not exceed several million , especially when the order is large. The second part of the campaign are advertising in more media , this cost may amount to little more . Meanwhile, the cost of the campaign is planned for up to 113 million zlotys. EU funds , that is also ours. Why not show this campaign belongs to your TVP , only money is output to the stations belonging to the holding Polish Media Andrew Kuchar , in which 90 % belongs to the Polsat television and approx. 9 % is held by TVN ???

isthatu2 4 | 2,704
8 Mar 2011 #43
Did you actually read the first post of this thread?

Honestly,no,I had already succumed to Godwins law by then....switching off once the irational connection to the nazis had been made....:)

yes,it does stick in ones throat no matter your politics when the poorest are taxed most and the richest as usual sail 3 feet above the rest of us with nice little tax breaks and blind eyes turned all round to "creative accounting"....a website in the uk gives us a bit of light relief,create your own campaign poster,heres mine...



poland_
8 Mar 2011 #44
but government-sponsored media is pretty accurate description - president of Warsaw subsidied the privately-owned Legia warszawa with some 400 million złotych for their new stadium - the owner of Legia is ITI group

I am sure " gumishu" is one of those diehard Legia fans that cannot accept the " Walters" move on.
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #45
It's what happens when you throw token amounts money at people to breed. Do you think
those kids are going to end up being much different from their parents? Will that be a net
gain for Polish society (and the welfare state), or would the gain be better achieved from
a household that can afford to have children and raise them right?

That's why I oppose the oppressive, excessive taxation - it makes it harder for all families
to support themselves (but it most certainly hits the poor families the most and makes them
even more dependent on state handouts, closing them more firmly in the enchanted circle
of poverty.)

I wouldn't protest against government's raising VAT and cancelling handouts, if they only
lowered other taxes and decreased the idiotic work law, which makes employing people
in Poland very costly. Unfortunately, the government thinks they can increase taxes and
cancel handouts and at the same time keep all the restrictions and regulations regarding
the economic freedom and work law. This will result in driving even more people into poverty.

I'm for taking care of the families, it should be done through charity, like paying for private English lessons for two of the kids upstairs.

I agree under one condition - we introduce capitalist taxes and economic freedoms in Poland.
Otherwise, if government upkeeps socialist economic laws and gathers socialist, excessively
high taxes, then they should give socialist handouts. Simple as that.

Don't blame Poles in America we voted for PiS

Well, thank you very much - you voted for PiS and stayed in America. Very funny joke - thanks.

Poland should be ruled by either UPR (preferably) or PR. PiS sucks almost as much as PO.
gumishu 11 | 5,155
8 Mar 2011 #46
I am sure " gumishu" is one of those diehard Legia fans that cannot accept the " Walters" move on.

heh - I appreciate your sense of humour warszawski :) quite as much as I do not appreciate sponsoring 'friendly' private media by PO representatives in power
Harry
8 Mar 2011 #47
Seeing as the state education is supported by the taxes of all working individuals (also my humble self) I see no reason why I should additionaly support it.

If you won't pay extra when you use it, why should people who never use it pay for it at all?

Yes, I am aware of the fact that you were the cavalry coming in the answer to Polish government's desperate cry for help; however, it wasn't the government, but the people
themselves who knew that it was necessary for them to be able to speak English.
Polish government might have imported the teachers of Mongolian, but if there hadn't been
people willing to learn Mongolian, those teachers would have been useless.

Wasn't English a compulsory subject? Or at least the government planned to make it one anyway (which was why they needed so many teachers).

If there had been fewer children, Harry would have had fewer clients (there would have been demand for fewer teachers) and would have earned less money.

The decent money in teaching English (especially when comparing effort to revenue) is teaching executives one-to-one. I taught kids for six months and very quickly realised that a far better specialisation is executive English.

Well, thank you very much - you voted for PiS and stayed in America. Very funny joke - thanks.

Be grateful he did. Although it is a strange choice, aren't PiS the party of lustracja?
convex 20 | 3,978
8 Mar 2011 #48
That's why I oppose the oppressive, excessive taxation - it makes it harder for all families to support themselves

Indeed, but only families that are working. However, it should be applied across the board. Not just for families with children.

I wouldn't protest against government's raising VAT and cancelling handouts, if they only lowered other taxes and decreased the idiotic work law, which makes employing people in Poland very costly.

The other option is to drive everyone into bankruptcy. But, I do agree with you.

I agree under one condition - we introduce capitalist taxes and economic freedoms in Poland.

That's the problem with social-democracy when starting out on weak financial footing. The welfare state will eventually bleed itself dry. It's either comfortable safety net at an inflated price for everyone or little to no safety net and allow everyone free will to decide where they want to go. I'm going to side with more economic freedom so that people with ideas, or the desire to work, are properly rewarded.
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #49
If you won't pay extra when you use it, why should people who never use it pay for it at all?

It's called national solidarity. If people who don't use it, refuse to pay taxes to support it,
then people who do use it (very often their clients) should find other providers of goods
or services to do business with - someone less selfish and more erm... solidarny (I'm not
sure what the English word for "solidarny" is.)
gumishu 11 | 5,155
8 Mar 2011 #50
Poland should be ruled by either UPR (preferably) or PR. PiS sucks almost as much as PO.

as a once-supporter of UPR I should ask you a serious question - have you ever seen any realistic strategy or programme of changing this society from current state to a near libertarian one as Janusz Korwin-Mikke would like it to see without causing unpredictable turmoil and chaos - as much as I think many of the points Janusz Korwin-Mikke raises are valid and at least need re-thinking I pretty much notice he and his followers don't have any realistic strategies to achieve their various claimed goals - and hmm I actually don't think unrestricted capitalism with everything private is the goal we should be heading to - and to my little brain such system of liberalism will quickly act to destroy itself (its ideological fundamentals) - as even JKM has once stated 'capitalists are the worst enemies of free-market'
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #51
@gumishu:

But of course it is unreal to transform the Polish society in a relatively short time, into one that
would embrace liberal capitalism. I was talking more of Poland in the ideal world, not the current
banana republic.

However, it would be nice to actually have an economic system. Any system. It can be
capitalism, or it can be socialism, but not this idiotic mish-mash of both (usually the
worst parts of both) that can be best described with a not-very-elegant word - 'burdel'.
Crow 139 | 8,566
8 Mar 2011 #52
i just finished my hard working day and i would now say few words about that Tusk

Donald Tusk's Government Continues to Oppress Poles

i don`t expect anything good from Slavic traitor such is Tusk. Man who was able to side with worse mujaheedines against fellow Slavs. Man who took part in partition of Serbia with his criminal friends from NATO and EU. i wouldn`t be surprised if Tusk even took part in organ harvesting from Serbian civilians of Kosovo because we heard that some traces leads to Polish Jewish community (later they would BS about antisemitism). `Disgusting poltronic traitor`- that`s how Serbs among itself call Tusk
OP Torq 32 | 2,999
8 Mar 2011 #53
Thank you for the compliment!

Not at all. That's how I see it.

I think that we aren't actually supposed to call PennBoy a retard except in the off-topic forum. Might be an idea for you to edit your post (or it'll get whisked off to off-topic).

I edited it to "reetard" (yes, I know it's stretching the rules a bit - ah, well.)

However, I think that we can safely call him American, after all, he is American!

Well, he certainly isn't a Pole - that's for sure.

Just to get things back on track, do you agree with Polish citizenship being given to children
who due a direct choice by their parents are born outside Poland? I don't.

It depends. If Polish parents are just guestworkers in some foreign country for a couple
of years, then their children should get Polish citizenship. However, if they emigrate
permanently, or even adopt nationality of another country, then it is debatable if children
of such parents should automatically receive Polish nationality.
Harry
8 Mar 2011 #54
You're a dork and a wimp like Hairy, and everyone knows it.

Not exactly a civil tone there.

It depends. If Polish parents are just guestworkers in some foreign country for a couple of years, then their children should get Polish citizenship.

I'd be in favour of such children having some lex sanguinis rights (such as permanent residency right with no need to obtain a work permit) but limit citizenship to naturalising in the same way as any other resident of Poland who wants a Polish passport. People who don't live in Poland and who do nothing for Poland have no right to Polish citizenship and definitely shouldn't be able to pass it on to their children!
Ironside 49 | 10,282
8 Mar 2011 #55
Name one other government that is more successful in the EU than the current Polish government. With reason, facts and figures to back up your choice, if you can't may i recommended that you shut your yapper and talk about things you know more about.

Gee, you must be one of their PR doctors, why don't you shut up yourself, anybody with a brain can see, that they are doing fukk-all for Poland, maybe for their cronies and themselves life is golden but not for general population !
THE HITMAN - | 236
8 Mar 2011 #56
It is also worth bearing in mind that although they have increased the VAT rate on other things, thy have lowered VAT on food.

Wake up idiot, has the price of food gone down ? No, everythings gone up.

Name one other government that is more successful in the EU than the current Polish government.

What success ?
The early promise shown by PO was on the foundations of work done by PIS, albeit that Kacszynski is unpopular. The fact they have done little since has led to the current decline. The cracks are beginning to show with embarrassment. All PO are doing is lie to cover up those cracks in order to obtain another term in office. Once, they do that, everything will rocket sky high. These politicians don,t give two hoots about the public, all they,re in it for is their own gains.

facts and figures

Give me yours to back the success of Tusk. " if you can't may i recommended that you shut your yapper and talk about things you know more about."

Try seeing a doctor

Dr Dolittle ( Tusk ) perhaps, or Dr Mengele ? lol

Gee, you must be one of their PR doctors, why don't you shut up yourself, anybody with a brain can see, that they are doing ******* for Poland, maybe for their cronies and themselves life is golden but not for general population !

Well said. My sentiments entirely. Cheers to you friend.
gumishu 11 | 5,155
8 Mar 2011 #57
are you British HITMAN? - if so how on earth are you so 'PiS-minded' - I mean it in an approving way
Ironside 49 | 10,282
8 Mar 2011 #58
Rewarding failure

We are talking here about too high taxation, not about rewords!Eh!?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Mar 2011 #59
Once, they do that, everything will rocket sky high.

Including my salary. I've just checked, and I've more or less had a payrise this year of 20%. Not bad, especially seeing as petrol has only gone from 4.30 to 4.85 in two years.
gumishu 11 | 5,155
8 Mar 2011 #60
do you really think this is so typical for work force in this country?

and btw do you earn in PLN or euros?


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