The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 303

Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy.


Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #211
.....yeah...and then that thing explodes and Bratwurst Boy in Berlin get's radioactive contaminated and dies...THANK YOU!
gumishu 11 | 5,155
21 Jan 2020 #212
Is it really cheaper when you factor in all the respiratory health i

I don't have respiratory issues :) :P

electric heating is the most expensive (more than twice as expensive) in Poland (unless you inherited a sizeable set of photovoltaics, i mean solar panels)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #213
So....investing lotsa money first into...say....solar panels would come alot cheaper in the long run, don't you think?

What's smarter now...to keep using a dirty but cheap energy source (which is not endless available) or building up a clean energy source which will only run out in a few billion years? (That won't explode and contaminate everything that is)!
gumishu 11 | 5,155
21 Jan 2020 #214
So....investing lotsa money first into...say....solar panels would come alot cheaper in the long run, don't you think?

you have to have this money in the first place - also you have to have a suitable location for the panels
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #215
And solar panels are for our geography not the best solution anyhow....but you get my drift.

Shuck out money NOW and live cleaner and cheaper later FOREVER!
gumishu 11 | 5,155
21 Jan 2020 #216
What's smarter now...to keep using a dirty but cheap energy source

I don't know what is smarter in the long run - what I know is that with current technology it is pretty expensive and probably not economic to store electric energy so you cannot have just solar panels as your energy source (think night) - although I heard that IBM has recently achieved a breakthrough with battery technology which sounds promising but as far as I know it is not in the commercial phase as yet.

Shuck out money NOW and live cleaner and cheaper later FOREVER!

I just don't have the money - you know sometimes even taking a credit for a thing you desire is too expensive
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #217
I just don't have the money

Well, "going green" isn't an individual project of choice...
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
21 Jan 2020 #218
.....yeah...and then that thing explodes

Yeah right B.B. and the sky may fall too.

I don't have respiratory issues

Do you have any idea what acid rain is and the damage that is doing not only to your drinking water but the chain reaction from it ?

Solar panels have been proven insufficient and not cost effective in countries like Poland.
I lived within 15 kiometers from one of the first nuclear reactors ever built in the U.S.A. for 45 years until it was decommissioned.

electric heating is the most expensive

You have no idea the minimum amount of electricity those Sun Heat heaters even use.
Compare one with the real cost of ALL the factors that come with coal burning.
I'm beginning to see a pattern with Polish people and that none of them want to budge on anything because they hate ANY KIND of change.

Hey people......it's 2020 !
AND there is only one place to build a nuclear reactor and that is where there is a huge source of water because it takes a lot to keep them cool.

That would most likely be between Gdansk and Szczecin so those people living there can either accept it or move.
That's what we were told when they built ours and a lot of people did move out of fear over nothing.
gumishu 11 | 5,155
21 Jan 2020 #219
You have no idea the minimum amount of electricity those Sun Heat heaters even use.

I don't know, maybe they use some other electric phenomenon that I don't know of because regular electric heater use electric resistence as the source of heat and this just simply costs too much

don't know, maybe they use some other electric phenomenon that I don't know

just looked up Sunheat website - they claim their heaters operate on infrared radiation - maybe it is a cheaper way of heating with electricity
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
21 Jan 2020 #220
The Sun Heat is Infrared.
The infrared heaters contain three parts that create heat: infrared light bulbs, a heat exchanger (such as a good metal conductor like copper) and a fan that blows air onto the exchanger to create the heat.

Very economical and much cheaper to operate then a conventional electric heater because of it's technology.
I think the technology came from maybe a Scandinavia country.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
21 Jan 2020 #221
also you have to have a suitable location for the panels

...and a private sun that shines even on the cloudy days.

Infrared heaters are useful when the presence of infrared radiation is critical. As home heaters, they are not any more efficient that the ordinary heated wire types.

In all cases, infrared or not, all of the energy drawn from the wall socket is turned into heat with 100% efficiency. If light is a by-product, it has to leave through the windows to be lost to the homeowner. Otherwise, it always turns into heat.
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
21 Jan 2020 #222
As home heaters, they are not any more efficient that the ordinary heated wire types.

B.S. !
Is there ANYTHING that you are not an authority on ! ?
No essay please as we already know the answer.
Infrared are much more economical to run than the old wire type heaters and 100% safer.
I think you should look into being a distributor for them in Poland gumishu.
After you make your first million you can fly me over to Poland to celebrate your success.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
21 Jan 2020 #223
Infrared are much more economical to run than the old wire

No. Every kwh you draw from the wall turns into heat eventually. If light is a byproduct, when that light hits a wall or furniture, it turns into heat.

The IR radiation has the advantage in that it can be directed. Hence, it is useful when the IR heater is used in production of part that have been painted, for example. Because it can be directed like light, the IR energy is not wasted to heat up the surrounding objects and space. Duh!

Is there ANYTHING that you are not an authority on ! ?

Many, but I know a thing or two about science and electrical engineering. Would you like me to post my MSEE diploma again or are you going to claim it's a fake like the other a-holes here did in the past?

Couldn't refuse yourself to get personal again?
gumishu 11 | 5,155
21 Jan 2020 #224
I think you should look into being a distributor for them in Poland gumishu.

I appreciate that you care johnny but I sort of have my heating sorted for the time being - so for now thanks, but no
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
21 Jan 2020 #225
I know a thing or two about science and electrical engineering.

But you are clueless how these heaters are designed and engineered which makes your MSEE worthless.
Didn't I say "NO ESSAY" as we already know how opinionated you are on every subject.
Is there no one else here today for you to argue with ?
These Sun Heats are designed with the same technology as the Eden Pure only twice as well constructed.
These would be a big hit in Poland to be the first one in the neighborhood to have one.
Excellent option over coal and my guess as economical in the long run.
Vlad1234 16 | 611
21 Jan 2020 #226
.....yeah...and then that thing explodes and Bratwurst Boy in Berlin get's radioactive contaminated and dies...THANK YOU!

Can there be any reasons for a modern reactor to explode? A subcritical reactor equipped with particle accelerator could be built.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcritical_reactor
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #227
That's an interesting website to keep tabs on....the newest developments in green tech at a glance...and there is alot of stuff underway....

popularmechanics.com/science/green-tech/
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
21 Jan 2020 #228
But you are clueless how these heaters are designed and engineered which makes your MSEE worthless.

Do you know how to recognize an ignorant person in thirty seconds or less? Read your own posts.
Unfortunately for science and me, this forum has only teachers of languages and poets - neither activity depending on physics, math, and logic - so I am not able to send you to them for a quick course on what happens to the energy once it's drawn from the wall socket.

So, here is the shortest course for the ignorant: ALL ENERGY DRAWN FROM THE WALL SOCKET TURNS INTO HEAT - 100%, ALL THE TIME.

Some of it escapes the house through the walls, ceiling and the windows as radiation and convection. A completely insulated, lossless room would burst into flames as the process of drawing energy from wall - with none able to escape - would cause the temperature to rise to infinity.

In that sense, EVERY single device you plug into the wall socket is a 100% energy efficient. No exceptions. If you know of a device that can take in X and put out Y, Y being less than X, name it. After that, please, explain what happens to the difference X-Y. Like where does it go.

Can you confirm that (1) you read the above and (2) that you at least understand the words, if not the concepts.

Is there anyone here with an engineering degree? Are you all in liberal arts?
Miloslaw 7 | 3,216
21 Jan 2020 #229
infrared heaters

Very economical

Those two quotes do not go together.
Infared heaters can heat a room very quickly but are not particularly economical, nor are any electrical heaters.
Here in the UK we mainly use gas fired central heating.
Water heated by gas and pumped through pipes to radiators.
Works great and is fairly inexpensive.
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
21 Jan 2020 #230
Is there anyone here with an engineering degree?

With all your knowledge I think you should march right over to Poland and build them a nuclear reactor then. :-)

As home heaters, they are not any more efficient that the ordinary heated wire types.

I told you B.S. because I have used both the porcelain wire ones and the infrared and the wire porcelain cost a lot more to heat with.

O.K. ? (wanna see my electric bill ? duh)
Did you get it that time because I could give a rip about your A B C's.
I was trying to educate people on infrared heater so they could google them to see how well they worked to replace coal burning.
Then you chime in (like always.... on every subject) calling me a liar, not to debate but to have someone to ARGUE and take the thread right off topic again and again and again as long as it is about how smart you are.

You could make a preacher swear Rich.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,216
21 Jan 2020 #231
You could make a preacher

Hey, like you in Petoskey?
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
21 Jan 2020 #232
Closer to Gaylord.

Infared heaters are not particularly economical, nor are any electrical heaters.

Have you ever owned an infrared heater ?
Those two quotes don't go together.
First it would depend on the cost of the electricity and second it would depend on what you are comparing them with.

I use two Sun Heat electric heaters to heat my house. (2000 sq m)They cost about 1500zl each,

I meant 1500zl a month for both of them in the coldest month of winter when they run non-stop.
Since it is a lot colder here than Poland I would expect you could cut that price in half in Poland in most winter months.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
22 Jan 2020 #233
I told you B.S. because I have used both the porcelain wire ones and the infrared and the wire porcelain

You lack the proper credentials to discuss this subject. It's like an MD discussing proper cure with a woman in Peru who claims that praying three times a day at midnight facing east is just as good as a tetanus shot because it worked for her sister in Bolivia.

I don't care what your electric bill is. The laws of physics are not private and mean that if two electric heaters draw the same amounts of energy from the wall (in kWh), the heat they will produce will be exactly the same. Period.

The heat so produced will be radiated and convected. Different heaters, like different types of bulbs, will divide the two forms differently. But the total heat - the sums of radiated and convected - will be identical and the windowless room temperature the same as well.
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
22 Jan 2020 #234
but to have someone to ARGUE and take the thread right off topic again and again and again

Except for the fact that these infrareds are engineered and designed to have maximum efficiency.

The infrared heaters contain three parts: infrared light bulbs, a conductor like copper and a fan that blows air onto the exchanger.

The coiled wired ones lack such technology.
My next reply will be, "That's nice".
Now for the sake of sanity Rich, go pester your wife.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
22 Jan 2020 #235
From electricradiatorsdirect.co.uk/news/eight-myths-about-efficiency/

Myth 4: "All electric heaters are 100% efficient, so it doesn't matter what type of heater you choose"

Reality: Whilst all electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electrical energy into heat, the type of heat produced by these heaters will not necessarily be equally efficient at heating your space. For example, a convection heater may turn 100% of the power it uses into heat, but if it is used outside, almost all this heat will be lost, and your outside space will not get any warmer. An infrared heater, meanwhile, uses 100% of its electrical energy to produce radiated heat, which is much more effective at heating outdoors, so will make a more efficient choice for outdoor heating.

Did you finally get it? Inside a room, all electric heaters are 100% efficient. It's only if heat needs to be TARGETED, which is what I wrote earlier, to an object or a person, the infrared heaters work better because their radiation can be targeted - even in vacuum - while an ordinary, convection heater will not work as well due to losses to the open space that is unable to retain all of the heat so produced.

Bottom line: all electric heaters convert electric energy into heat energy at the same 100% efficiency.Where they differ is in the efficiency of heat DELIVERY to an object or a person to be heated. In a typical room, they are the same and the temperature in that room will be same if a person is located not in the path of radiation.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
22 Jan 2020 #236
if a person is located not in the path of radiation.

Delete the above.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,216
22 Jan 2020 #237
I meant 1500zl a month for both of them in the coldest month of winter when they run non-stop

That is bloody expensive.
1,500zl is about £300.
I heat my house with gas central heating for about £65 a month and the heating is on all day.
johnny reb 23 | 4,467
22 Jan 2020 #238
That's Nice.

I meant 1500zl a month for both of them in the coldest month of winter when they run non-stop.

My house is twice as big as yours plus I live in a much colder region and I like to keep it very warm in my house.

L300 wouldn't even buy a cord of good hard wood here in the U.S. and I go thru a cord of wood in a week when it is -25C.

You must live in a very small house with low ceilings.
Maybe your electric costs less then mine too.
There are just to many variables to compare.

That is bloody expensive.

Welcome to the U.S.A. tax base who's military picks up the tab to protect the E.U.
Now I don't know what is the matter with you thick head self centered morons that INSIST hell or high water to take this thread off-topic just to argue.

How do your wives put up with you.
Lenka 3 | 1,952
22 Jan 2020 #239
@ Johnny
Calm down man. No need to get so agitated. 1500 zl a month is expensive by Polish standards... British as well. Of course the size of the house plays a role but you have to admit that the difference between 65 for heating and hot water compared to around 350 is huge.

Electric heating is not very popular in Poland. In towns people usually have town's or building's society central heating connected and pay a fee all through the year in rent. Once a year the meaters are checked and you either get some money back or you have to add a bit.

Free standing houses use different variation of coal/wood central heating.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,216
22 Jan 2020 #240
You must live in a very small house with low ceilings.

Firstly I have gas central heating, not electric and my house is four bedrooms, detached and 1930's build, so not particularly small but with large rooms and fairly high ceilings.

American houses tend to be bigger than European ones, so I guess mine would be the size of an average American house but large by European standards.

If I heated my house electricaly the cost would be more than double.

Home / News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy.
Discussion is closed.