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Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy.


Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #181
as I said there are no complementary researches so far on global cloud cover

quantamagazine.org/cloud-loss-could-add-8-degrees-to-global-warming-20190225/

"...The simulation revealed a tipping point: a level of warming at which stratocumulus clouds break up altogether. The disappearance occurs when the concentration of CO2 in the simulated atmosphere reaches 1,200 parts per million - a level that fossil fuel burning could push us past in about a century, under "business-as-usual" emissions scenarios. In the simulation, when the tipping point is breached, Earth's temperature soars 8 degrees Celsius, in addition to the 4 degrees of warming or more caused by the CO2 directly...."

In short:

More CO2 -more warming - less clouds - more sun - even more warming...
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #182
There is flooding and it was (and is) in the news plenty of times.

yeah sure- as Atch stated the sea levels rose 30 cm since 1880 - that really is terryfing - millions of people would die - aaaaaaaaa! - fear mongering

quantamagazine.org/cloud-loss-could-add-8-degrees-to-global-warming-20190225/

do you understand the word could? do you understand that like 15 years ago we didn't even have real time satelite cloud imagery
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #183
How about you would actually READ about it!

I can't spell it out so slowly extra for you....use google...listen to the news...it's all there....but I can't take it from you...you have to open your eyes yourself!

giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/delgenio_03/

nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00685-x

"Clouds' cooling effect could vanish in a warmer world

High concentrations of atmospheric carbon dioxide can result in the dispersal of cloud banks that reflect roughly 30% of the sunlight that hits them."


It get's only worse!
TheOther 6 | 3,821
20 Jan 2020 #184
fear mongering

You should get your head out of the sand, Gumishu. Just because it doesn't affect you personally doesn't mean it doesn't happen elsewhere.
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #185
read again -in more than 100 years of constant fossil fuel burning the ocean level rose 30 cm - let's say it changed 15 cm in the last 30 years - there is still so much to go :P
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #186
there is still so much to

Yeah....I'm so happy I don't live in the south or near the sea either...*eye roll*
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #187
High concentrations of atmospheric carbon dioxide can result in the dispersal of cloud banks that reflect roughly 30% of the sunlight that hits them."

to be honest I never heard of this simulation - anyway simulations can often change drammatically with a small change of various factors - also i read (the information was hacked like back in 2007 or 2008) that top climate scientists were manipulating (giving false data actually) data to suit their theories and they cooperated globally for the purpose

Yeah....I'm so happy I don't live in the south or near the sea either...*eye roll*

you weren't even able to give the data of how much the sea level rose in the last 20 years - my assumption of 15cm is probably nothing more than that - (my guess would be less than 10 cm
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #188
Is the NASA an okay source?

climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

sealevel.nasa.gov/

It's all there...

documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/156401468136816684/The-impact-of-sea-level-rise-on-developing-countries-a-comparative-analysis
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #189
ok so what is the content of CO2 in the atmosphere now? what is the 'tipping point' in the simmulation you mention? - seriously use some of your intuition more

your graph - you probably never paid the attention to what you see just confirms what I said: the sea levels rose less than 10cm in the last 30 year
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
20 Jan 2020 #190
You've got to be ******* kidding me!

The ice has never before melted in that quantity! (Or at least as it did it didn't concern mankind)

ocean.si.edu/holding-tank/ice/ice-melt-poles

"...It's confirmed: both Antarctica and Greenland are losing ice-around 350 billion tons each year-and, as a result, sea level has risen 11.1 millimeters worldwide since 1992..."

Where do you think all that water is going? Yes, into the global seas...whose level is continously rising, alot faster than before!

"....By 2050, sea-level rise will push average annual coastal floods higher than land now home to 300 million people, according to a study published in Nature Communications. High tides could permanently rise above land occupied by over 150 million people, including 30 million in China."

forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2019/10/30/shocking-new-maps-show-how-sea-level-rise-will-destroy-coastal-cities-by-2050/#4636da18456c

And sadly, not even the clouds will help with that...since the CO2 and the consequential warming of the atmosphere will see less clouds which in turn can no longer stop the sun light which in turn will lead to even hotter temperatures...

Is that really so complicated to understand?

Yes, I know it's scary stuff....but burying your head between your arse cheeks and not-thinking/not-reading/not-learning about it, willing it to be all a bad hoax, is NOT helping at all!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
20 Jan 2020 #191
You really think "global warmers" is something like a party?

No. Global warmers are the liars who got caught lying about global warming, so they switched to "climate change".
If global warming were (1) real, (2) caused mainly by humans, and (3) reversible at an affordable cost, the global warmers would NEVER, ever switch to "climate change" - the position that is a lot more convenient to occupy, as it is always true, cannot be challenged, and needs no defending or eating sh*it for in the future.

Bullet and future proof. Good tactical move. From that point on, the only question for the liars was how many dupes the CC movement will sign up.

To their relief, the move from GW to CC stifled all opposition. No more deniers. Even me. Brilliant.

the sea levels rose less than 10cm in the last 30 year

Where is the data in support of the sea level going up?
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #193
CO2 and the consequential warming of the atmosphere will see less clouds which in turn can no longer stop the sun light which.....

you can't read, man - you stated (ok quoted) a simulation revealed that there is a tipping point of CO2 atmosphere content where stratus clouds dissapear - the problem is this level of CO2 is three times bigger than now and that that level with current rise of CO2 in the atmosphere would take hundreds of years - I guess you learn as you go - otherwise you just gobble the nonsense that we are at the brink of a disaster

co za idiota wprowadził ten limit cytowania to nie wiem

Where is the data in support of the sea level going up?

on a nasa website Bratwurst linked
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #194
the volume of the oceans on earth is around 1,4 billion cubic kilometers - this is about 4 billion times more than the volume your source states as the data for the melting of Greenland and Antarctica
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
20 Jan 2020 #195
Oh **** off!

The quoted response shows conclusively why the global warmers like you avoid all public debates where people like me would have you on the ropes in 30 seconds or less. You want to try it here?

Actually, I take it back. You already blew it.
Miloslaw 7 | 3,260
20 Jan 2020 #196
Most of the ice on earth is already floating in the sea so the displacement has already happened.
If that ice melts it will not raise sea levels!!
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #197
you are wrong, Miloslaw
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
20 Jan 2020 #198
the volume of the oceans on earth is around 1,4 billion cubic kilometers -

A better approach is to assume that all ice has melted and distributed evenly over the oceans. How much would the level go up then? We know all the numbers so it should be easy. I would be shocked if it's more than 6 inches.

If that ice melts it will not raise sea levels!!

Then why are we talking about whole cities drowning?

Can somebody post a sea level vs time graph, please? Like in NY or LA.
NASA has a lot of stories with "will" in them. I want to see data with "did" for the last, say, 50 years or since the first lie - sorry, I meant prediction - from Gore.
gumishu 11 | 5,166
20 Jan 2020 #199
as early as in the 80's I have seen estimates that if all of the ice on Earth melted the sea level would rise by about 75 meters - Ice sheets on Greenland and Antarctica are huge
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
20 Jan 2020 #200
OK, I will do the calculations and will be back with the result. That task is a grade school "math" once we know the volume of ice and the ocean surface area. And we do.

on a nasa website Bratwurst linked

BTW, where is that ocean level vs time graph? I can't find it.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
20 Jan 2020 #201
So far I have these numbers to start with:

Ocean surface: 360 million square km
Ice volume: 5.7 million cubic miles

And this claim: If all the ice covering Antarctica, Greenland, and in mountain glaciers around the world were to melt, sea level would rise about 70 meters (230 feet).

Back to the stick on the wall...Does anyone have that kind of data which even a third-grader who never heard about NASA can collect and report?
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
20 Jan 2020 #202
Here is a chart that shows who is making an effort and who could give a rats ***.
Notice they didn't include the U.K. as being in the E.U.
capitalresearch.org/app/uploads/AEI-Chart-with-2017-CO2-Emissions.png
Now lets get back On - Topic about Coal Powered Poland instead of the climate change hoax.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,752
21 Jan 2020 #203
That chart is not fair to China and a distortion about the US. When a country like the US exports its manufacturing jobs, it sends its pollution along with them. Until recently, we were even sending our garbage to China for recycling - which adds to the emissions.
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
21 Jan 2020 #204
The subject of Global Warming has been exhausted here, in fact that thread has been closed.
(Poland blocks any action on climate change)
Yes Global Warming is a hoax, it has made a lot of people rich and it is nothing out of the ordinary of weather throughout history..

Did you eggheads get it that time ????
If not please explain the Maunder Minimum when the hoax was that the earth was going to freeze and end all life.
The Maunder Minimum, also known as the "prolonged sunspot minimum", is the name used for the period around 1645 to 1715.
Europe never had summers and nothing grew during that mini ice age.
All caused because of solar flares and sunspots know as WEATHER, nothing to do with a man made hoax.
Man can not control solar flares or the weather so please stop already with the global warming hoax once and for all.
If you still can't sleep at night in fear of rising oceans then book a cruise on an ocean liner or build an Ark.

NOW can we get back on topic about Poland's Coal Plants that pollute the environment and causes health issues.
gumishu 11 | 5,166
21 Jan 2020 #205
here - Germans are opening new coal powered power plant in Ruhr Gebiet : -

reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-germany-coal-uniper/unipers-datteln-4-coal-fired-power-plant-will-be-connected-to-grid-conservative-idUSKBN1ZF0LL

- it transpires that German coal is clean as opposed to Polish coal
Lenka 3 | 1,954
21 Jan 2020 #206
Neither is good. I don't know about Germany but in Krakow flights have been cancelled on Saturday due to fog and smog. When you have air so bad people start wearing filter masks you know something is seriously wrong.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,583
21 Jan 2020 #207
Datteln 4 isn't secured yet....there is alot of resistance building against this decision...protest has reached the top newspaper....the gov needs some damn good arguments now...there is hope!

spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/die-lage-am-morgen-kohleausstieg-datteln-4-bundestag-julia-kloeckner-a-7402973e-ab64-45f4-8346-50f4d57eedb9

spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/kohleausstieg-bund-will-co2-emissionen-von-datteln-4-ausgleichen-a-583d150f-7b87-442f-acb6-fd3efba94a64

welt.de/politik/deutschland/article205094558/Datteln-4-Klimaschuetzer-bekaempfen-Kohlekraftwerk-trotz-Deal.html

taz.de/Co-Vorsitzende-der-Kohlekommission/!5654331&s=Datteln/
gumishu 11 | 5,166
21 Jan 2020 #208
Neither is good

I want my coal unless you provide me with equally cheap alternative - the simple thing is coal is the cheapest way to heat your home in Poland - even the LNG heating is more expensive not mentioning the prohibitive cost of such installations if you are not in the reach of LNG grid - I have no reason to care for smog because I live in a forest - so while I agree that there are areas where smog is an issue and they surely have to consider ways of dealing with the issue I cannot be even asked to have a 20 000 PLN LNG installation in my home because I simply don't have the 20 000

a 20 000

ok I checked the going prices - and LNG installation costs about 7 000 PLN - which doesn't change the fact that I don't have it - so unless there is an overall ban on coal in this country or there is a program of significant subsidies I won't be having and LNG installation any time soon
Lenka 3 | 1,954
21 Jan 2020 #209
I want my coal unless you provide me with equally cheap alternative

It may be cheaper on personal level but definitely not good on national level.
johnny reb 23 | 4,497
21 Jan 2020 #210
I want my coal unless you provide me with equally cheap alternative -

Is it really cheaper when you factor in all the respiratory health issues that cost the country how much in medical costs and lost wages in a variety of ills.

How about electric heat in Poland ?
Where I live it is much colder then what Poland experiences and I use two Sun Heat electric heaters to heat my house. (2000 sq m)

They cost about 1500zl each, heat a 1000 sq m each and I have had mine for seven years with no problems.
They plug into any wall outlet, are on coaster wheels to roll on and are about .06m x. 06m x .06m in size.

bing.com/search?q=Sun+Heat&src=IE-TopResult&FORM=IETR02&pc=EUPP_UF03&conversationid=

100% CLEAN with No smoke, no ashes to empty and dispose of, no dust and dirt, no dirty coal to store, to hassle loading the furnace twice a day or more, an even heat...........yet I do have a wood burner for back up in case the power goes out during a storm.

Just think, if Poland would get out of the dinosaur age and build a nuclear reactor to produce a surplus of affordable electricity.

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