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Dalai Lama says: "POLAND HAS RETAINED ITS SPIRIT"


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
6 Dec 2008 #1
Speaking in Gdańsk at the 25th anniversary celebrations of Wałęsa's Nobel Peace Prize, the Dalai Lama said: "Poland ranks amongst thsoe countries that despite all the vicissitudes has retained its spirit."

Ceremonial rhetoric or fact?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #2
Ceremonial rhetoric

What do you mean by Ceremonial rhetoric.
I thought it was quite clear.
Poland has endured a lot.
It did not exist for a while but the people (spirit) formed it again.
I have never heard the Dalai Lama just saying things like that out of ceremony.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
6 Dec 2008 #3
I simply asked for a comment whilst withholding any remarks of my own.. Judging by some of the things about Poland we see on this forum...well, you know what I mean.

At all anniversary assemblies, ceremonies, presentations, etc. there is plenty of diplomatic courtesy, high-sounding slogans, etc.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
6 Dec 2008 #4
Yeah, there is a strong collective spirit here, it's just a shame that some seek to undermine that.
scorpio 20 | 188
6 Dec 2008 #5
One of the primary reasons Poland is on the map of Europe today is due to the spirit of its people. It certainly wasn't due to the generosity of map makers or the countries surrounding Poland. :-)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #6
I get where you are coming from.
I have always been impressed with the Poles.
In the centre defending and attacking but still being Poland.
It is a question of what it means to be Polish?
Why through all the wars and even when Poland did not exist, did these people say we are not German, Russian, Swedish, etc... But we are Polish.

Ha ha ha, i am having visions of that film "300", THIS IS POLAND! ha ha ha

I think one of the bigger differences between Irish history and Polish, is that the Brits never wanted us, as a people, they wanted our land for various defensive and imperial reasons but not the people, whereas the Commies wanted the "hearts and minds" of the Poles.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
6 Dec 2008 #7
Poland ensured its own existence through fighting. It has undergone many border changes and for 123 years wasn't strictly on the map. SeanBM is right, the spirit was carried on and survived.

Some Brits wanted ya, Sean
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #8
Some Brits wanted ya, Sean

Only the women ha ha ha
Seanus 15 | 19,706
6 Dec 2008 #9
So, when you got it on with them, did you wear 2 condoms? You know, to be sure to be sure
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #10
I like the Dali Lma, i read some of his teachings.
It is unfortunate about Tibet having been almost completely lost to China.

It certainly wasn't due to the generosity of map makers or the countries surrounding

I remember it got lost on the map, nobody seemed to mind except the peaceful Tibetans and even more unfortunately not many seemed to notice or care.

Perhaps Polish people can relate to that, I think i can.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
6 Dec 2008 #11
The Dali Lma? Is that his cousin or brother? LOL
Wahldo
6 Dec 2008 #12
It is unfortunate about Tibet having been almost completely lost to China.

Pretty soon they'll have Taiwan and nobody will be able to do anything about it probably.
plk123 8 | 4,150
6 Dec 2008 #13
I have never heard the Dalai Lama just saying things like that out of ceremony.

he doesn't. that's kind of low and disrespectful of the op to even suggest that.

But we are Polish.

always under occupation
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #14
he doesn't. that's kind of low and disrespectful of the op to even suggest that.

You have completely miss understood what i have written.
plk123 8 | 4,150
6 Dec 2008 #15
op=original poster as in author.
Piorun - | 658
6 Dec 2008 #16
I think one of the bigger differences between Irish history and Polish, is that the Brits never wanted us, as a people, they wanted our land for various defensive and imperial reasons but not the people, whereas the Commies wanted the "hearts and minds" of the Poles.

I have to disagree with this statement; I personally do not see the difference. Communism was an ideology with ultimate goal of Global domination. Although the propaganda might have painted this picture as such that was never the case.

Ceremonial rhetoric or fact?

Looking at U.S. where most of the people claim one nationality or another, I wonder why is that? We are who we are, we keep the traditions of our ancestors, we keep our native language, we are proud of who we are – no matter of what our present circumstances are or our nationality is. It does not matter if the history is kind to us or cruel, we are proud of who we are. As long as we consider ourselves separate distinct group from our bigger more powerful neighbors we are the keepers of that spirit.

Dali Lama is correct, as long as we keep that spirit we Do Exist. His people have not lost that spirit; neither did many others who do not exist as a separate identity on political map of the world today. His message is a message of hope for his own people as well as for others who would like to be independent some day. Yes it is a Fact; this was a perfect opportunity to keep the message alive for many around the world. It is his duty to do that for his people and as a Pole I’m proud of the fact that he used us as an example for others to keep the hope alive.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #17
op=original poster as in author.

Doh!, I thought, well you know what I thought.
It is me who is misunderstanding, excuse me.

Communism was an ideology with ultimate goal of Global domination

In this light, yes they are similar but this is not what I meant.
But I seem to be on a roll for misunderstanding tonight...
Piorun - | 658
6 Dec 2008 #18
this is not what I meant.

I know

I seem to be on a roll for misunderstanding tonight...

You got Dali Lama message, I see it the way you stated it.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #19
Dali Lama message

He has a lot of very real and great things to say :)
He is a real person a bit like John Paul II :)
Perhaps there is another connection.

Excuse me for my misunderstanding.
dcchris 8 | 432
6 Dec 2008 #20
what is interesting and in some ways forgotten perhaps is that poland itself did not exist for over a hundred years due to occupation. perhaps this is what the dalai lama is referring to in a message of hope to his people. in some ways it is a similar situation. i am going to see him speak on Thursday in warsaw
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
6 Dec 2008 #21
what is interesting and in some ways forgotten perhaps is that poland itself did not exist for over a hundred years due to occupation.

Only 100 years? :)
I certainly have not forgotten.

i am going to see him speak on Thursday in warsaw

Good stuff, I have not read anything by him in a long time.
I know he is still very active and teaches around the world.
dcchris 8 | 432
7 Dec 2008 #22
yes he will speak on global responsibility. not too many leaders talking about peace out there today...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
7 Dec 2008 #23
I respect the Dalai Lama but people have been talking peace for years and what becomes of it? Sometimes sth positive, yes, like in NI between the Unionists and Sinn Fein. Look at the proposed road map in the Middle East. Expensive flights to go to a spruced up conference to trot out the same old nonsense. When you have a Catch 22, intractable problem then there is no progress without compromise. Both sides in the Middle East rigidly cling to their convictions, so that essentially dashes the hopes of many. Concession becomes merely a word in the dictionary at that point.

The sad fact is that the world community just doesn't care enough or hasn't the means to bring about changes. The Dalai Lama didn't follow through on the outcry of his people around the time of the Olympics.
dcchris 8 | 432
7 Dec 2008 #24
ok fair enough seanus but he is teaching the middle path more out of practicality than anything else. a direct uprising against the chinese will only result in a massacre and he realizes that. what else can he do?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
7 Dec 2008 #25
I wasn't slighting the man, dcchris. I like what he represents and how he goes about his business. He can but chip away at the fabric of Chinese society but he is taking on a bear.

Rallying support is the best step at the moment, I agree. I'm just sceptical about what can be achieved but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
dcchris 8 | 432
7 Dec 2008 #26
no its cool seanus I didnt take it as a slight of the man at all. all public figures are open to critical analysis. nobody is pure. its a tough situation there in tibet thoug.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
7 Dec 2008 #27
The main thing is that he doesn't give up the ghost, elusive as his objective may appear. A noble cause is worth fighting til the very end for.

The man is using what limited options he has and for that he must be praised. Many have a host of options on the table and invariably pick the wrong one.
dcchris 8 | 432
7 Dec 2008 #28
yes its just that he is pretty old now and I wonder about the future. the tibetans are not peaceful people they have a peaceful religion. they are fighters at heart
Seanus 15 | 19,706
7 Dec 2008 #29
'The older, the wiser' as the adage goes. Though I wish him long life, the flip side is that he'd become a martyr upon his death.

You cannot suppress the natural tendencies of those people. They can be taught peace but it will be tainted with a rebellious streak.
lesser 4 | 1,311
7 Dec 2008 #30
It is unfortunate about Tibet having been almost completely lost to China.

Of course China should become much more liberal. But if you consider that the only loud alternative is Buddhist theocratic regime and Dalai Lama who said in Gdansk that he is an economical communist/Marxist then one could doubt whether this is better option!

he doesn't. that's kind of low and disrespectful of the op to even suggest that.

Why? Dalai Lama is also a politician. I doubt whether he know about the spirit of Polish people during communist era and today's. Every American president coming to Poland babbling something about communism and the role of the Polish people fighting this system.


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