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The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak


Ziemowit 12 | 3,486
16 Feb 2016  #1
As the TVP1 has just reported - the widow has brought some documents to the IPN with the intention of selling them. As a result IPN decides to call the police to search the home of general Kiszczak for more documents concerning TW Bolek which "Bolek" is supposed to serve as a cover for the activities of Lech Wałęsa for the Polish "Securitate" in the 1970s (if I'm not mistaken).
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
16 Feb 2016  #2
The attempts to smear Wałęsa continue.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Feb 2016  #3
Come on, leave Bolesław alone...
jon357 63 | 14,122
16 Feb 2016  #4
The attempts to smear Wałęsa continue

It was expected the second his old enemy Jaro took office (not that he's dared to actually take office yet).
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
16 Feb 2016  #5
It's all about revenge. The good side is that the West doesn't care about these smears and regards them as a political witch hunt, which means that PiS can only do further damage to their reputation there.
jon357 63 | 14,122
16 Feb 2016  #6
It just adds to the long long list of misdemeanours and felonies which damage PIS' reputation, not that they have much of one to begin with.
OP Ziemowit 12 | 3,486
16 Feb 2016  #7
Come on, leave Bolesław alone...

Who is Bolesław??? As far as I know, Kiszczak was baptized Czeslaw ... Wałęsa is Lech, Kaczyński is Jarosław. Jaruzelski was baptized Wojciech, so ...
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
17 Feb 2016  #8
The good side is that the West doesn't

What "the West" thinks about B. is totally irrelevant.

so ...

Hmm let me think :)))
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
17 Feb 2016  #9
What "the West" thinks about B. is totally irrelevant.

Only in your world. In the real world, people take note of the harassment of an ex-President and someone widely considered to be a hero - and respond accordingly.
Nathans
17 Feb 2016  #10
Lustration in Poland (just like about all things related to politics) was the failure. In general, Poland is on a fast track to political and social failure; it cannot govern itself (and when others govern it, they take advantage of it to the point it disappears from the map ;)
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Feb 2016  #11
Merged: Will Kiszczak's files expose the true workings of III RP?

The news of the day are Kiszczak's files on Wałęsa aka Bolek and presumably other people and events. One commentator on TVP said the revelations may shake the very foudnations of post-RT Poland known as III RP by exposing the interconnections between compliant

KOR/Solidarność operatives who co-conspired with ex-regime types to carry out hwat has been called "the transformation". It is becoming exceedingly obvious why the Kaczyńskis, Macierewiczes, Gwiazdas, Walentynowiczes and other true Polish patriots who didn't go along with the conspiracy were sidelined and discredited by the shakers and movers of III RP.

Supposedly Kiszczak secreted those materials away as his insurance policy so he'd have a "hak" on the III RP bigshots in case they started harassing him. Mrs Kiszczak said he told her when he was terminally ill that she should sell the documents if she was ever in a financial bind.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
17 Feb 2016  #12
The news of the day are Kiszczak's files on Wałęsa aka Bolek and presumably other people and events.

So in other words, they'll be selectively used against political enemies. Surprise, surprise.

Anyway, if there is anything genuinely explosive in those files, then you can expect the political opposition to start digging up some serious dirt on the government as well. That's why the whole thing is a scam - some people will be harassed, but any real information would never be used because there's just too much on the government as well.

By the way, mods : Wałęsa has never been proven to be Bolek. Might be wise to remember that, Polonius.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Feb 2016  #13
against political enemies

Against the political enemies of Poland.
Harry
17 Feb 2016  #14
enemies of Poland.

You mean such as the former loyal servants of Moscow?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Feb 2016  #15
Wałęsa has never been proven

He himself has admitted to "signing something" back when. An IPN soruce said he defintiely was registered as a secret collabroator code.named Bolek but thought he was outfoxing the regime. Now it has all backfired.

I do not believe any reasonable analyst claims he was an active informer whose reports harmed those he snitched on. In fact, that's not really important. For historians what's most imporatnt is how, when and why the deal between ex-commies and the compliant wing of the Solidarność-dissident camp was struck and what benefits each side derived therefrom.

One thing is certain, since 1992 the Kaczyński camp have consistetnly opposed all the fellow travellers -- Wałęsa, Mazowiecki, Bielecki, Kwaśniewski, Pawlak, Tusk, Miller, Belka, Buzek et al -- knowing how they got to power. When Maciereiwcz opened his files in 1992, Porozumienie Centrum (Kaczyński's then Centre Accord party) was the only party in teh Sejm without a single ex-PZPR member. Only now are PiS riddled by Delph's "ENDLESS" PZPR types whose name is Piotrowicz.
Dougpol1 30 | 2,947
17 Feb 2016  #16
**** a duck.

Walesa is a far greater man than the Kaczynskis and their mob put together. He may not be an academic, but was clearly brave, motivational, and could take decisions, while remaining calm and sensible.

Only ten years before the Zomo had murdered his co-workers in the Food Riots - who was to say worse couldn't befall the shipyards and mines this time around. Wujek coal-mine was bad enough, but history tells us that Walsa's softly-softly approach was bang on.

As to "Agent" - a lot of people got themselves in ****, and (were forced) to sign papers they shouldn't have as a Get Out of Jail Free card. The Geremeks of this world (and who would criticise such a figure) actually went further along that road to enable himself an education.

Who are the fools here?
I'll give a clue - one of them killed 90 plus people through his arrogance.
OP Ziemowit 12 | 3,486
17 Feb 2016  #17
IPN says Mrs Kiszczak demanded 90,000 zl for the documents. The author of Kiszczak biography (Lech Kowalski - a very sensible guy who was on TVP3 today's evening) says it was completely irresponsible on the part of IPN to reveal that. He added that IPN has so far failed to demand any documents from the former communist officials which they may have been keeping at home. Another former Solidarity opposition activist said that IPN has been more keen on hiding the truth about PRL rather than on revealing it (except for the period when Kurtyka was the charman of IPN).
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
17 Feb 2016  #18
The attempts to smear Wałęsa

There's nothing to smear. He signed something - big deal, you probably would have too under the circumstances. He already had 4 or so kids.

The main thing is historical truth for the present and future generations. Post-RT Poland was based on lies, innuendos. and hand-washes-hand
arrangements that had nothing on common with democracy and were closer to a mafia-like deals. Except this was all hidden away and now it will come out into the open for all to see. Did your eally believe the charade could last indefinitely?
OP Ziemowit 12 | 3,486
17 Feb 2016  #19
Who are the fools here?

No one is denying his virtues and achievements and all historians in Poland agree he closed his co-operation with SB in 1976. It is exactly his secret activity in the time from before that year which is disputed now.
jon357 63 | 14,122
17 Feb 2016  #20
Walesa is a far greater man than the Kaczynskis and their mob put together.

Absolutely. Unfortunately more highly respected outside Poland than inside where people consider him to be not particularly intelligent and given to extreme comments and behaviour. Though he is not generally considered to have been a career informer except among the lunatic fringe.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
17 Feb 2016  #21
The main thing is historical truth for the present and future generations.

I'm all for it as long as it's equal. That means that if Wałęsa is to be investigated, then everyone else needs to be investigated, starting with the government. If you genuinely believe in the truth, then you need to know exactly how everyone benefited from connections to the PZPR and PRL. What do you say?

One thing is certain, since 1992 the Kaczyński camp have consistetnly opposed all the fellow travellers

So why has Kaczyński been remarkably unwilling to investigate his own father's activities? Polonius, you know, I wouldn't mind knowing the truth as well, I just don't believe that PiS want the real truth - they just want to destroy their political enemies.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
18 Feb 2016  #22
father's activities

Your'e not serious. The guy has long been dead and buried and nevr held any leadership post. You think today's Poland has nothing better to do than deal with obscure trivia that has no bearing on anything? Sounds like you're again parroting one of the obsessions your guru has been harping on. I wonder if you've got any original views? I wodner if yoru guru knows old man Kaczyński was not a Catholic because he attended mass only 18% of the time. (LOL)

TW Bolek

Investigative reporter Cezary Gmyz has reported that a film of the backroom Magdalenka talks is going to shake things up next week. The commie side's chief negotiator Stanisław Ciosek said when it was being filmed (during the secret talks) that if it was ever shown to the public "we would all be branded Targowica."

telewizjarepublika.pl/quotzadanie-specjalnequot-o-archiwum-kiszczaka-cezary-gmyz-dotarlem-do-sensacyjnych-tasm-z-magdalenki,29686.html#
Harry
18 Feb 2016  #23
has reported

Just because something is reported does not make it true. It's simple to provide examples of reports of things which turned out to be entirely untrue; I'm sure you can think of lots (if you can't, just say so, I'll be happy to remind you).

Does anybody happen to know who else the late general's files refer to? I'd particularly like to see the SB's files on that vile little shill who used to try his hardest to make sure the words of his masters in Moscow were repeated in the US press; is there any info about whether the general's files might refer to pondlife such as that? Or is this a pure vengeance exercise by the PIS lovers using carefully faked files in yet another attempt to smear a man they will always hate for being a far better man than they could ever be.
jon357 63 | 14,122
18 Feb 2016  #24
So why has Kaczyński been remarkably unwilling to investigate his own father's activities?

This will one day come back and bite him. The more they push the smears against Lech Wałęsa, calling him 'Agent Bolek' etc, the more likely that scrutiny will fall on JK and those close to him.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
18 Feb 2016  #25
You think today's Poland has nothing better to do than deal with obscure trivia that has no bearing on anything?

It seems to me as if you want one rule for some and one rule for another.

The more they push the smears against Lech Wałęsa, calling him 'Agent Bolek' etc, the more likely that scrutiny will fall on JK and those close to him.

Exactly. Serious questions need to be asked - how did Lech Kaczyński get out of the internment camp quickly, despite Komorowski and others being held for months, for instance? If Polonius really wants 'the truth' to be revealed, then he should support a full and honest investigation.

I just saw this mentioned on Facebook with the commentary "brak słów". I quite agree.

As Wałęsa will be inevitably compromised, Lech Kaczyński has become the symbolic patron of the Solidarność movement - Jaroslaw Kaczynski said in an interview for "Gazeta Polska".

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114873,8349142,Kaczynski__W_obliczu_kompromitacji_Walesy_to_Lech.html

Looks like the masterplan is clear - try to humiliate and discredit Wałęsa, then brainwash the masses into believing that Lech Kaczyński was the real hero of Solidarność. That fits in with the whole attempt to create a martyr out of Kaczyńśki, and we can soon expect choreographed chants of Santo Subito made at PiS rallies.

Just shocking.
Harry
18 Feb 2016  #26
brainwash the masses into believing that Lech Kaczyński was the real hero of Solidarność.

Oh dear, yet another plan the PIS masterminds haven't thought through. If Kaczynski was the real hero of Solidarnosc, why was he locked up for such a short time? Either he wasn't important enough to bother with or somebody such as his father pulled strings to get him out, or both. Whichever option is correct (my money would be very much on the last of the three), the more the PIS lovers try to draw attention to his past with Solidarnosc, the more questions will come up about his past and that of his father, who of course is also the father of The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski.
Ktos 17 | 456
18 Feb 2016  #27
As a result IPN decides to call the police to search the home of general Kiszczak for more documents concerning TW Bolek.

Kiszczak together with Walesa got a bit of a scare, too bad nothing will be found as everything is already destroyed by Kiszczak or hidden underground. At least new crims will be more careful not to mess with Polish public.

edited

Only in your world. In the real world, people take note of the harassment of an ex-President and someone widely considered to be a hero - and respond accordingly.

Bolek is a hero? To whom? To you? Who cares what Americans think of their hero Walesa, what matters is what he did to us Polish people and we will hopefully prosecute him for his deceit.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
18 Feb 2016  #28
humiliate and discredit Wałęsa

How about bringing out all the facts about Wałęsa and other leaders and let the public decide whetehr tehy have discredited and humliated themselves. Maybe Wałęsa is crystal-clear and Gwiazda was the SB plant at the shipyard.

But neither Wałęsa nor Gwiazda is that important in all this. What's most important is that the whole, dirty, backroom. hand-washes-hand arrangements between commies, KOR-ites and their fellow-travelling Solidarność types will be fully exposed. Let the public judge for themslves and may historical truth prevail.
jon357 63 | 14,122
18 Feb 2016  #29
Looks like the masterplan is clear - try to humiliate and discredit Wałęsa, then brainwash the masses into believing that Lech Kaczyński was the real hero of Solidarność

Really quite transparent, isn't it...
G (undercover)
18 Feb 2016  #30
humiliate and discredit Wałęsa

How can one humiliate and discredit a guy that barely can read and write ?


Home / News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak
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