Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy.

Of course I forgot to mention that includes hot water and a gas hob in the kitchen :-)

some people in the countryside use LPG installations for heating - but LPG is more than 60 per cent expensive than coal heating (although it obviously clean and requires little attention) - LNG (methane) is cheaper than LPG but a bit more expensive than coal - also most cities and towns are connected to LNG grid so you don't need a gas tank

Thank you Lenka as I do get agitated when people cherry pick out of context just to argue.
I repeatedly stated that was the most I paid in the dead of winter and other winter months could be less then half that.
I also posted that electricity could cost more here then there.
I also posted that there were many variables to be compared but to no avail.
These kids just want to argue to argue.


Mine includes hot water for my sauna and washer machine, electric dryer, yard sodium security lights (wow !), and a string of other luxuries that I am quite sure you don't have.

I also stated that I have a wood burner for back up but I did not mention that I also have a back up LP tank (500 gallon) with a LP furnace that is only used to warm the house up quickly.

That LP tank is also connected to my home generator so if the electricity does go off (like it did last night because of very high winds with tree branches breaking and falling on the power lines) the generator kicks on automatically.

I live in a rural area and it is every man for himself.
Is there anymore personal information that you want of mine to defend my posts so you can badger me with it Harry ?
(J.R. gives up telling these hammer heads to stay on topic and appreciates the Mods patience more and more every day)

As Lenka told you.
Chill out old man, we are not arguing, just discussing.....calm down, a man of your age and weight does not need stress...
You told us how it is in your America and I told you how it is in my Britain.... that is all... no need to get angry or excited....

No argument.
So chill old man!
It's all cool..... hey, especially where you live....

A simple locally administered one, too.

A good start would be to ban new furnaces in new houses. After that, 100% subsidy to coal users to get them onto gas, and I don't see any harm in building decent gas networks so that you can be connected to mains gas.

Volia, you don't have to pay more, but you're encouraged to move away from coal.

A sensible suggestion.
Gas is cheap in the UK.
How does the cost compare to coal in Poland?

I've never used coal, but I've got the heating set at a steady 20c from October-May and the monthly bill is about 300zl a month on average, and that's including hot water (one of those boilers that heat water on demand, it's a 24kw boiler i think...).

I'd be surprised if coal was cheaper, especially considering the boiler is constantly running on demand. But again, this is a mains gas supply, so maybe people with individual gas tanks are paying a lot more.

you don't see no harm and I see a huge cost - who is going to splash it out?

There's a lot of EU money available to help, for a start. Any serious programme that exists to make a difference (and not to act as a way for the government to employ cronies for 25,000zł a month) will get a lot of funding.

Ask yourself why the life expectancy figure is now falling in Poland...

How many sq m is your flat and how much will your bill be in February ?


Also the countries huge medical costs due to respiratory problems.


You do have a terrific imagination son

good question

If his place is half the size mine, doesn't have security lights ($4z per day each to operate) that he pays for, no sauna or washer and dryer, and a string of electronics that run 24/7 like my air purifier, humidifier, power lift and massager chair and living in a climate that the average temperature in February is 29F/11C here compared to 38F/25C in Wroclaw for example.

Right now I have a meter of snow on the roof of my house.
This is why I was getting so annoyed with Millie when she was trying to start an argument comparing apples with oranges.


Exactly what I said to revive this thread back in post # 128 where I posted the European Union plans to dedicate a quarter of its budget to tackling climate change and to help shift 1 trillion euros ($1.1 trillion) in investment towards making the economy more environmentally friendly over the next 10 years.


God helps those who help themselves.

I never met anyone so emotional about his heating being more expensive than someone's else...

Is this what makes you feel inferior because mine is bigger then yours ?

No, I just worry about your emotional state. To get so upset over something like that...

Generally in Poland electric heating is the least popular. It's simply less efficient and more expensive than alternatives.

Electric heating is 100% efficient. It converts electricity into heat without any losses. It just costs more.

I also found it less efficient in the meaning that it heats up small areas very quickly and too strong. As soon as you turn it off it's freezing again.

I never tried the newest electric heaters but I'm not tempted. They are usually used for 'spot heating' and thankfully my house is plenty warm with central heating.

No argument there. This is why the best electric heating is when the wires are buried in the floor. 100% efficient and 100% silent.

Same here.
JR has a point though, it does get very cold out in the sticks where he is, but I suspect it in not that much warmer where Rich, Dirk and Joker live.

So guys, tell us what your heating bill is in January.
I am very lucky, my house is EXTREMELY well insulated, three of the bedrooms are not used so the radiators are off, the heating is switched off at night and this winter London has, so far not gone below zero.

But I still think JR is using a very dumb and expensive way to heat his home.

Thank you, you really do have feelings for me don't you.
PM your telephone number so we can talk about it. :-)


Your emotions about me seem much much more upsetting to be honest.
The last thing I need is an old lady in my life worrying about me.
Unless you are very wealthy and then we can talk.


Less efficient then coal but 100% cleaner heat and that is what the thread is Suppose to be about.

How is it "cleaner heat"?
How do you generate that electricity?

It does not pollute at the point of delivery.

And?
What about at the point of production?
You get nothing for nothing in this life.

You made it tempting to be flippant...
Make it in China..That's how we keep our pollution low.
Seriously, burning a ton of coal at one thousand apartments yields different total pollution than if burned at one power station with scrubbers and other anti-pollution gizmos.

Plus, it's far away from you.

@Johnny

The moment you will get the option to message me in private will be the day I get locked up in a psychiatric hospital.

As to the cleanliness- as Milo pointed out- that electricity comes from somewhere. In Poland that would be coal. If you add to it that it's not as good as other means of heating the cleanliness becomes a question.

However, considering that a lot of people will buy the cheapest coal and even burn things that they shouldn't it would improve things. Not enough though.

And clean however I wouldn't call it the best radiant heat as Hydronic Radiant Heat is much more economical.
Poring concrete over plastic pipe coils in the floor and then pumping hot water from a boiler is much more efficient.
I have installed this kind of heat in new homes back in the 80's.


Not on the average Milo, like I said, I have a meter of snow on my roof right now and they have very little to none.


You just want to kid argue like always so you have someone to talk to.
I would replace dumb with convenience Milo, since at my age I can afford to heat with any one of the three options my house has.

LP gas (forced air furnace going on and off all day and night), wood heat (hauling the wood in and hauling the ashes out) or electric (where I just set the dial).

Please explain this to the Millennials that claim electric cars are cleaner and more economical.


In Poland that would be from fossil fuels that pollute the environment.


Awe shucks, I was going to invite you to come visit me this summer so I could show you around my stomping grounds and then you could take me back to Poland and show me yours.

Guess I will just have to keep looking for some nice open minded Polish girl.

No disagreement there if the water is heated by gas.
When discussing efficiency, we have to keep in mind that efficiency can be understood as degrees per dollar as opposed to the physics of energy conversion which would include energy losses. That efficiency would be in percent. I am assuming that in your last post you meant degrees in the room per dollar expended as the most economical. At least here.

Great point. JR.


Yeah, by gas and not electricity.......

Yes electric cars are stil generate much lower emissions than ICE even after taking into account the generation of the electricity, the production of the car, spare parts etc.

There are plenty of resources on the internet with all the proof and calculations you need

Obviously not good news for expert Ice Hockey playing politicians who rely on high oil prices to keep their population happy and rely on fossil fuels to bully their neighbors.

As someone else said we need to have the debate about nuclear fuel in Poland but politically very difficult