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Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy.


Polsyr 6 | 773    
10 Jul 2015  #91
@delph I know it sounds feasible, but it can just as easily be called "tossing the buck"
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
10 Jul 2015  #92
I suppose everything else has failed, so there's not much to lose.

Although I still wish they would just clear the debts of the mines in question, give the shares to the workers (with a clause that workers must control at least 50%+1 of the shares) and sit back and laugh. We'd be rid of the problem within months ;)
Polsyr 6 | 773    
10 Jul 2015  #93
@delph perfectly logical. Also, private owners are far more likely to take strong action when their money is wasted by way of corruption and mismanagement vs. government.

However, the problem is the workers and the unions. Workers want money, benefits and job security - and they have declined (upon the advice of their unions) to accept shares. They want benefits but no responsibilities. Communist carryover mentality and industry altogether. And if the gov won't do exactly as they say, nothing easier than union bosses sending 5-10 thousand coal miners to Warsaw to effectively shut down the city. They constantly use (imply) this threat.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
10 Jul 2015  #94
Exactly, and this is why I'd like to see the mines privatised and placed into their hands whether they like it or not. Of course, they'd howl and complain - but it would be very hard to argue with "...but we're GIVING you the company" in the eyes of the public. I'd personally like to see them justify why owning shares in their own future is a bad thing - especially given that they're hardly likely to admit that they'd screw it up within months.

A simple carrot and stick approach would be to make it clear that the shares will be given to those that agree. If they don't agree, then they don't receive shares - which would soon divide many miners, especially when it becomes obvious that individual miners could own a substantial amount of shares if they don't all agree.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing about how a few shot miners means that every miner in the country should be entitled to endless special benefits.
Polsyr 6 | 773    
10 Jul 2015  #95
@delph; Divide and conquer - couldn't be simpler. I doubt even the unions bosses have the power to do anything about it. I wonder why that never came up.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
10 Jul 2015  #96
Probably because PO have never shown much appetite for public confrontation - it's always been a hallmark of PO to try and come to a consensus rather than facing down the unions.

I suspect that such a tactic would work very well when the workers realise that the management will inevitably take the shares and so they need to take their share. The Unions would howl, but a firm hand is needed at that point.
Polsyr 6 | 773    
10 Jul 2015  #97
@delph; you are essentially taking the words out of my mouth :)
Varsovian 92 | 634    
10 Jul 2015  #98
Germany runs coal mines at a loss and has done for years
jon357 65 | 13,567    
10 Jul 2015  #100
Germany runs coal mines at a loss and has done for years

All the more reason to close them.
weeg    
10 Jul 2015  #101
Nuclear would be a potential solution, but the future is not looking good. bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33469774

High pressure and nuclear power.. what could go wrong?
Polsyr 6 | 773    
10 Jul 2015  #102
I agree that on the medium and long term, Poland needs either nuclear power or a very good renewable energy initiative to move forward, but both concepts are stumbling upon a lot of red tape at the moment, not the least because of indirect and sometimes direct interference from the coal mining industry.

Well, here is a small step in the right direction towards energy security. The Polish-Lithuanian energy bridge is now completed, meaning further European integration in terms of energy.

thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/214023,PolandLithania-energy-bridge-opens-

I believe that in the future, defense will be about energy and data as much as it is about pure military might. In terms of energy, EU and individual member states are slowly doing a lot of good things to ensure security.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669    
17 Jul 2015  #103
Denmark's Wind Energy Output Just Exceeded National Demand... just saying

gizmodo.com/denmarks-wind-energy-output-just-exceeded-national-dema-1717066802

what's the excuse in Ciemnogrod?



majkel - | 63    
17 Jul 2015  #104
Money?

Or are you just trolling?
FlaglessPole 4 | 669    
17 Jul 2015  #105
Money?

oh yes money because that's one thing more important than the survival of our habitat....

besides DK now exports its energy excess, funny enough, for money, so again, what's the excuse in Ciemnogrod?
Vox - | 177    
17 Jul 2015  #106
so again, what's the excuse in Ciemnogrod?

I'm guessing it is an insult. Why don't you tell us mr wise guy?
Polsyr 6 | 773    
21 Jul 2015  #107
thenews.pl/1/12/Artykul/214415,PiS-deputy-head-strategy-for-Polish-mining-a-priority

And already PiS showing the ugly truth behind the mask. Pani BS stated "The basis of Polish energy must be coal". Pani BS, I hope you and your children get asthma, because this is exactly what you did for millions of Polish children with this statement.
FlaglessPole 4 | 669    
21 Jul 2015  #108
Eminent Australian scientist Professor Frank Fenner, who helped to wipe out smallpox, predicts humans will probably be extinct within 100 years, because of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.

Fenner, who is emeritus professor of microbiology at the Australian National University (ANU) in Canberra, said homo sapiens will not be able to survive the population explosion and "unbridled consumption," and will become extinct, perhaps within a century, along with many other species. United Nations official figures from last year estimate the human population is 6.8 billion, and is predicted to pass seven billion next year.

Fenner told The Australian he tries not to express his pessimism because people are trying to do something, but keep putting it off. He said he believes the situation is irreversible, and it is too late because the effects we have had on Earth since industrialization (a period now known to scientists unofficially as the Anthropocene) rivals any effects of ice ages or comet impacts.

phys.org/news/2010-06-humans-extinct-years-eminent-scientist.html
Polsyr 6 | 773    
21 Jul 2015  #109
I fear the Australian professor makes sense. But be care of using academic expressions like

homo sapiens

because certain paranoid people might come in here and blast you for forcing the

homo

"agenda" upon them...
jon357 65 | 13,567    
21 Jul 2015  #110
Eminent Australian scientist Professor Frank Fenner, who helped to wipe out smallpox, predicts humans will probably be extinct within 100 years, because of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.

I fear this may be true. There are a few ideas around this. One concept is something called The Great Filter. Google it; it's depressing.
Polsyr 6 | 773    
5 Aug 2015  #111
"Polish coal sector suffers PLN 1.45bn loss in H1"
Poland's hard coal sector generated a loss of PLN 1.45 billion in H1 2015, almost the double of the PLN 772 million loss it inflected a year earlier, Katowice branch of industrial restructuring agency ARP data show.

Production volume edged down by 850,000 tons to 34.3 million tons. Production volume declined for steam coal, but increased for coking coal. Sales volumes increased 8.9% to 35.6 million tons.

warsaw.voice.

Yet PiS want to dump more money in this financial and environmental blackhole!
jon357 65 | 13,567    
5 Aug 2015  #112
All about votes. If they did better in certain coal-producing regions it would be very good for them electorally, on a local as well as a national level.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
5 Aug 2015  #113
Yet PiS want to dump more money in this financial and environmental blackhole!

It fits entirely in with their electorate - uneducated and menial working.

Still, nice to see that PiS is now officially the political arm of Solidarność.
bullfrog 6 | 604    
5 Aug 2015  #114
United Nations official figures from last year estimate the human population is 6.8 billion, and is predicted to pass seven billion next year.

And?? One just has the travel a little around the world to see how much free space there still is on the planet. This ongoing joke about "overpopulation" started a few centuries ago with Malthus and his likes, making alarmist predictions which in the end prove wrong..
TheOther 5 | 3,453    
6 Aug 2015  #115
travel a little around the world to see how much free space there still is on the planet

So what are your ideas for a future Earth? Monster cities, endless GMO fields everywhere, no more wilderness? Endless growth is called cancer, and cancer kills. Nature will take care of mankind, don't you worry.
Braveheart16 14 | 100    
14 Feb 2018  #116
Merged:

When will coal become a thing of the past......



The government has promised no changes in the short term, and green activists accuse it of being influenced by the powerful coal lobby.
Technology Minister Jadwiga Emilewicz has voiced concern over the high death toll from pollution-related illnesses, promising that "an improvement" will be felt within five years

This has probably been the biggest cover up ever, and to think that some people actually believe that burning coal is ok for the environment and people.....how wrong they are....do they not know that burning coal is incredibly bad for the environment, it is cancerous, causes all sorts of long term breathing problems, is terrible for people with breathing problems and generally really bad....time to end it I think....or is there someone who will try to convince us all that coal is good for everyone including the environment...just look at the smog and what its doing...it is so dangerous...and is a disgrace.....the government should be ashamed that it just hasn't bothered to do anything about it and really don't want to be seen to be doing anything for the people. Sad really as I thought the PIS were for the people..
G (undercover)    
14 Feb 2018  #117
some people actually believe that burning coal is ok for the environment

So how is that worse than burning gas or oil ? The whole "green energy" thing perhaps will be economic efficient in a 100 years, surely not any time soon.
jon357 65 | 13,567    
14 Feb 2018  #118
it is cancerous

And an unpleasant and dangerous job mining it. A thing of the past.

the environment

Sustainable energy is essential if we're to slow down the damage to the planet - the investment is worth it now, since the impact of climate change in the future is going to be at a level socially, economically and politically that's hard to contemplate now.
Braveheart16 14 | 100    
15 Feb 2018  #119
Smog kills tens of thousands of Poles each year, yet environmental activists say the right-wing government of the coal-loving nation has been dragging its feet on combating air pollution. Millions of Poles heat their homes with often low-quality coal, which is the main source of air pollution ahead of cars and industry. The European Environmental Agency meanwhile blames air pollution for an estimated 50,000 premature deaths per year in the country of 38 million. While PM10 particle pollution is considered dangerous in Poland from 300 micrograms per cubic metre, the threshold is 80 micrograms in France.

I think that there are some valid points made from the above extract and yes 'the investment is worth it now'.... The extract really sums up the key issues which I feel are the ones the responsible government minister needs to address....whether he/she will is just a matter of time...in the meantime the people continue to live and breathe coal dust with the obvious consequences.....I cannot imagine how much it is costing Poland in healthcare relating to breathing conditions, cancer, etc

Of course people will say it will take time for change to take place but then again if the government really wanted to do something positive and long lasting they could.......no good talking about budgets etc, they could find the money to make changes as they have done from other initiatives such as the weekly 500 zl programme for family planning. At the end of the day the government will be judged on their performance....whether it is their strength or feebleness in doing something constructive for the Polish people.....
johnny reb 16 | 3,274    
15 Feb 2018  #120
Shale gas fracking is something Poland definitely needs

No, shale fracking is not something Poland needs to recover natural gas as many toxic chemicals are used by injecting them into the ground when fracking.

I have seen the yellow sludge that seeps up out of these fracking wells.
When those chemicals eventually seep into your under ground drinking water wells then what ?
Now lets talk about the shifts the layers of earth take (quakes) caused by fracking.

Shale gas fracking is something that Europe does not need.

Spot on jon, especially Poland.
Follow the MONEY trail and you will see that the lobbyist pushing for fracking certainly do not represent the people's best interest.
Hopefully soon the Nuclear Energy stigma will soon vanish in Poland like it has the rest of the developed world.



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