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Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy.


Wroclaw Boy    
16 Mar 2012  #61
I think that biofuels maybe are somehow eco friendly, but definitely they are not human friendly. I COPIED ALL THIS SHITE

In your own words buddy if you dont mind, we can all copy and paste...WTF.
Alligator - | 261    
16 Mar 2012  #62
You think youre the only one who can run a search?

If you really could use search engine you would be able to find out that biofuels are not made from wood but jatropha.
I am guessing that educated and filled with facts posts make you uncomfortable, but that is your problem and you have to deal with it by yourself.
Barney 14 | 1,472    
16 Mar 2012  #63
I am guessing that educated and filled with facts posts make you uncomfortable,

Ah man don’t be so touchy.

Bio fuels are fuels made from any plant material, one of the biofuels called bio mass is made from woody stuff and is ideal for Poland to generate electricity. That crop you mentioned is used as is a lot of others. The impact on food prices has been negative for people mainly because of the subsidies paid see the US and Maze.

The problem with land rights in the developing world particularly Africa and SE Asia is huge as the institutionalised development agencies (World Bank for eg) are pressing for this strategy. It deprives people of their traditional land and ability to develop agriculture for local needs among other things.

Large scale monocultures are bad at almost all levels but the big developers love big projects.
Wroclaw Boy    
16 Mar 2012  #64
If you really could use search engine you would be able to find out that biofuels are not made from wood but jatropha.
I am guessing that educated and filled with facts posts make you uncomfortable, but that is your problem and you have to deal with it by yourself.

Yeah im deeply uncomfortable with the fact that jatropha translates into wood which intern needs to be burned in order to extract its energy.

Lady what the hell are you talking about.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,674    
16 Mar 2012  #65
biofuels are not made from wood but jatropha.

biofuels are anything that grows that u can burn, including wood obviously.
Alligator - | 261    
16 Mar 2012  #66
I know that my second post was oversimplified. Biofuels are not made solely from jatropha.
In the first post I stated that today most of biofuels used in cars are made from jatropha and that it have dreadful consequences.

jatropha translates into wood which intern needs to be burned in order to extract its energy.

jatropha translates into seeds. To produce biofuel they are using jatropha oil, not wood.
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
16 Mar 2012  #67
Well, they can go **** themselves ! Who is supposed to pay for all this green crap?
I don't see richest countries of the EU switching to the public transportation anytime soon.
Wroclaw Boy    
17 Mar 2012  #68
it doenst matter mate really, energy is generated by what ever means neccesary as long as its generated.
TheOther 5 | 3,453    
17 Mar 2012  #69
Who is supposed to pay for all this green crap?

I would rather ask, who is going to pay if nobody cares about all this green crap, as you say? And I'm not talking about climate change alone. What about pollution, countless species going extinct every year, overfishing our oceans - the list is seemingly endless. I tell you who will pay in the end: our children.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
17 Mar 2012  #70
If Poland has VAST RESOURCES of shale gas at 313,000 sq miles, how much will Russia have at 17,000,000... 51 times bigger?

Wrocław Boy - Germany is more or less the same size as Poland (slightly bigger I guess) and it doesn't have any shale gas to speak of

European part of Russia is similar in this regard - their shale gas is negligible

the same is with your typical gas and oil - there are regions that have huge amounts and there are regions that don't have any economic gas and oil

I know geology is difficult ;) (actually not very difficult)

and yes - shale gas is environmentally risky thing (no comparison to standard gas developing)
Wroclaw Boy    
17 Mar 2012  #71
Wrocław Boy - Germany is more or less the same size as Poland (slightly bigger I guess) and it doesn't have any shale gas to speak of

European part of Russia is similar in this regard - their shale gas is negligible

the whole shale gas thing stinks.
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,181    
17 Mar 2012  #72
The sea levels are rising. This is a known fact.

By how much and what's so wrong in that ?
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
17 Mar 2012  #73
I would rather ask, who is going to pay if nobody cares about all this green crap, as you say?

Suckers ie those who have not say anyway.
Hey I get an idea why don't banks pay for it?Or rich countries who can afford all that military expensive gadgets, yeah let them pay!
ukpolska    
17 Mar 2012  #74
If you really could use search engine you would be able to find out that biofuels are not made from wood but jatropha.

Wrong, as this is my wife's scientific research and she is using Willow and Miscanthus sinensis (Elephant grass) as a source of biofuel for power stations.

Privately, my wife and her colleagues say it is a waste of time, but they have to do the research for the EU as part of their EU commitments.

biofuels are anything that grows that u can burn, including wood obviously.

Spot on.
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
17 Mar 2012  #75
Wrong, as this is my wife's scientific research and she is using Willow and Miscanthus sinensis (Elephant grass) as a source of biofuel for power stations.

this is a simple misunderstanding - for someone Polish who is not accustomed to scientific terminology 'paliwo' (fuel) is the stuff you pour into your car tank (coal and wood are colloquially called 'opał' and not 'paliwo')

I am not against having as much percentage energy coming from renewable sources as possible as long as it is economical - the thing is those renewable sources are not without problems and appart from organic matter are very expenisve (there is big potential in Poland for geothermal energy yet the thing is prohibitively expensive most of the time in spite of the fact it has serious advantages over any other renewable energy sources - heat pumps are superb solution for areas of low density developement but man they are expensive (for Polish circumstances))
Alligator - | 261    
17 Mar 2012  #76
Ukpolska I know it's wrong. I even stated that in later post. Why cherry-pick a quote that was more about responding to attack of some other poster (now edited)?

...and yes gumishu it can be sometimes confusing when I try to translate from my "Polish thoughts" into "English post" ;)
Varsovian 92 | 634    
18 Mar 2012  #77
I know researchers and they say biofuel is essentially a waste of time, but seeing as the authorities are paying ... and this sort of makes you think about all the public money going into global warmist research
grubas 12 | 1,392    
18 Mar 2012  #78
This is the second time Poland said nie to a plan for cutting carbon emissions; being the only party pooper in the EU to do so, and thus scuttling the whole deal. Why the veto?

Why the veto?Have you actually read the article you posted a link to?It says that Poland relies on coal for 93% of its electricity.That's why veto.Do you expect us to shut down all coal suplied power plants and sit in the darkness and misery?Forget it.If the rich westerners want us to shut down these power plants they have to pay us big time.Until then **** them and get the coal supplied power plants running at full capacity.maybe even build few more,afterall we have enough coal for the next 1000 years.
jon357 65 | 13,567    
19 Mar 2012  #79
It says that Poland relies on coal for 93% of its electricity

And it is time to change. The government here has had years to look at alternative sources.
grubas 12 | 1,392    
19 Mar 2012  #80
And it is time to change.

Fine.Are you going to pay for it?Because I don't and I don't give two s h i t s about global warming and stuff.Actually I have read somewhere that global warming will cause a climate shift positive (mild winters) for Poland and if it will make some countries like Netherlands dissapeared under the water let it be so,these punks deserve it anyway.
pip 11 | 1,660    
19 Mar 2012  #81
karma is a *****. you should watch your back or perhaps karma already had its way with you and this is why you are such a waste of oxygen.
peterweg 36 | 2,324    
19 Mar 2012  #82
Fine.Are you going to pay for it?Because I don't and I don't give two s h i t s about global warming and stuff.

Well there's a coincidence, I don't give two s***s about the fact that you will pay for it.

it doenst matter mate really, energy is generated by what ever means neccesary as long as its generated.

Polite version: No, its carbon neutral if it was especially grown and extracted C02 from the atmosphere before being burnt. Nuclear is carbon neutral as its doesn't involve carbon at all.
Ironside 47 | 9,109    
21 Mar 2012  #83
One more thing.
What about pipe-line build on the Baltic sea bottom. How not-green is that ? Yet nobody udder a word about that. Where is the EU commissioner or anything they all keep their mouth shut

CO2 ? Many plants during the night are producing CO2 ! Do they mean to cut them down?
That is another BS and scam to make monies out of taxpayers pockets. I wonder why they call it capitalism still. Maybe becouse it capitalises investemnts into politicians.
Meathead 5 | 473    
22 Mar 2012  #84
Wrong, as this is my wife's scientific research and she is using Willow and Miscanthus sinensis (Elephant grass) as a source of biofuel for power stations.
Privately, my wife and her colleagues say it is a waste of time, but they have to do the research for the EU as part of their EU commitments

Most biofuel is made from corn. They use the starch from the corn for ethanol and the leftover stuff is distillers grains which has all the food nutrients (which incidentally is easier for the cattle to digest. Raw corn is difficult for cattle to digest). In the USofA they currently produce 15 billion gallons annually from 40% of the corn crop. The distillers grains go to livestock feed. East Africa has a famine because they don't have monoculture. They have subsistence farms which are vulnerable to droughts or floods. The farmers in East Africa don't need our grain they need our agricultural technology like tractors, seed and irrigation equipment. Your wife needs to quit believing the oil industry's disinformation campaign on biofuels (as a scientist she needs to be impartial). They (the oil industry) don't want the competition. Poland can produce ethanol or methanol from their coal reserves, all it takes is some creative thinking from it's politicians.
OP jasondmzk    
22 Mar 2012  #85
It turns out Poland ain't sitting on nearly as much gas reserves as she thought. Still a decent amount, but approximately 5 times less than originally estimated.

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303812904577295790442844470.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Varsovian 92 | 634    
22 Mar 2012  #86
Meathead, you're confusing biofuel for vehicles (mainly corn) and biomass for electricity generation (maily wood).
gumishu 11 | 4,851    
22 Mar 2012  #87
Your wife needs to quit believing the oil industry's disinformation campaign on biofuels

biofuesl have been heavily subsided in the US (it was really huge sums) - I know cause I have read an article about people calling for ending the subsidies - that's about being impartial

Poland can produce ethanol or methanol from their coal reserves, all it takes is some creative thinking from it's politicians.

all technologies involving coal are quite dirty - in fact burning of the coal (especially de-sulphurised and in big plants) can well be the cleanest coal technology - the known technologies to produce methanol or ethanol involve turning it into gas by some partial burning to produce - there is still a lot toxic and problematic byproducts
Polsyr 6 | 773    
10 Jul 2015  #88
warsawvoice.pl/WVpage/pages/article.php/32331/news

Quote from above source: "Poland's energy sector will from now on be overseen by deputy Treasury Minister"

To me, it looks like since EU has had it with Poland's coal industry living off subsidies, it was decided to stick Polish energy companies with the bill for keeping the corrupt and poorly managed Polish coal industry afloat.

What a senseless politically motivated move that does no good for Poland except further reinforce the communist mentality of a centrally managed economy! What a shame.
NocyMrok    
10 Jul 2015  #89
it is a scam

It is not a scam but reality. Planet Earth is warming up artificially. Your misstake is looking only at the volume of CO2 emission forgetting that CO2 is not the only greenhouse gas. Read upon the amount of methane emission.

Methane (CH4) is the second most prevalent greenhouse gas emitted in the United States from human activities. In 2013, CH4 accounted for about 10% of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions from human activities. Methane is emitted by natural sources such as wetlands, as well as human activities such as leakage from natural gas systems and the raising of livestock. Natural processes in soil and chemical reactions in the atmosphere help remove CH4 from the atmosphere. Methane's lifetime in the atmosphere is much shorter than carbon dioxide (CO2), but CH4 is more efficient at trapping radiation than CO2.

Cropped 100+ words
Additionally methane initially reacts with ozone in a 'chain' reaction that ultimately produces CO2 and water vapour(Water vapour is a greenhouse gas too). Reaction looks like this: (3)CH4 + (4)O3 = (3)CO2 + (6)H2O. So it's another extra volume of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere as a result of anthropomorphic activity. The emission of every single gas able to contribute to climate change has got an extra kick because of us. Historically(averaging over the past 400,000 years) CO2 is around 240ppmv, and now it is around 385ppmv(60% higher). Methane is historically(over past 1,000 years) around 700ppb and now at 1700ppb(140% higher). The % for CO2 is smaller if we start from the warm period average of around 280ppmv.

The emission of methane has slowed down or even got reduced since 1998 because of unclear reasons.

Anyway... Discussion about Global Warming shouldn't be if it's real but how much of it is our fault.

Peace.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,553    
10 Jul 2015  #90
What a senseless politically motivated move that does no good for Poland except further reinforce the communist mentality of a centrally managed economy! What a shame.

Maybe it's not so silly as it seems. The power companies in particular might not be too happy to subsidise the miners, and this move allows the government to put pressure on the mines indirectly - which is important given the vast amount of fools in Poland that agree with special privileges for miners.



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