Abortion still under control in Poland

@gumishu

even a leftist lawyer from a feminist NGO stated as follows (exactly what I stated above) in a radio program:

Prawo zezwala na ratowanie kobiety, która jest w ciąży, gdy istnieje zagrożenie dla jej życia lub zdrowia. Obowiązująca przesłanka pozwala na to, żeby ratować kobiety, tylko trzeba mieć jeszcze wolę, by z niej skorzystać - stwierdziła w rozmowie z TOK FM Kamila Ferenc, prawniczka Federacji na Rzecz Kobiet i Planowania Rodziny. Ferenc przyznała, że w takiej sytuacji prawo należy interpretować na korzyść ciężarnej kobiety


all stupis people think it's PiS' fault - including yourself

Well, I have a different opinion. One day, when you grow up, you will realise your mistake.

all stupis people think it's PiS' fault - including yourself


good to know that you have a different opinion to a feminist lawyer - she is probably not feminist enough for you - or maybe you are too feminist (or maybe just simply biased and stupid)

Gumi, don`t be silly - do you really think that quoting one person whom I have never heard about gives you the right to create a whole theory? No, it doesn`t and it is a false theory. That is why I said you are a liar and manipulator.


No, I am not feminist enough.


Stop stuttering.

you can easily check the existence and political views of Kamila Ferenc by googling

OK, never mind, let her be a big shot, we don`t care. What we should care about is that she mindlessly accuses the doctors of delaying while we are fully aware of their reasons - they were afraid of being unjustly prosecuted by PiS` henchmen- that is why they lingered till it was too late. It is not their fault - it is PiS` fault for creating the sick atmosphere which prevents medical staff from doing their job, namely saving people`s lives. Simple.

Stop pretending you don`t know what I am talking about - even a halfwit would understand the true meaning of those events. That is why I still claim you are a liar and manipulator. Shame on you.

I have seen on TV yesterday a cover from Afganistan about Taliban. Abortion is under Taliban completely prohibited. But it is no different to a new law in Poland. So Poland is now on Taliban level in this matter. It is horrible.

even a haflwit understands that the law is in protection of the mother if the pregnancy is a threat to her life or health (it is even singled out in the infamous verdict by the Constitutional Tribunal) - it looks like the doctors in this case weren't even halfwits and never cared for the life of the woman in the first place


either you don't know what the Polish abortion law is or you cannot string together two logically coherent sentences - if abortion is completely prohibited in Afghanistan then it's different from Poland because abortion in Poland is allowed if the pregnancy is a threat to the life and HEALTH of the mother and in the case abortion is a result of an unlawful act (like sex with a minor, rape, incest etc)

also I'm not (as I already stated in the thread) in favour of the most recent ruling of the Constitutional Tribunal on the issue (at least not entirely)

Or maybe they're scared they are going to be accused of performing illegal abortion. Just a thought

it doesn't reflect any better on them - if a doctor takes care more about his career than the well-being of the patient they shouldn't be a doctor - also if you ask me it's in a violation of Hippocrates oath

They are humans. With all the human traits.
Pretending that the TK rullings didn't have an impact is stupid.

I don't think people were that keen on this change anyway and it will get worse.

No Sir it is humbuk. As a doctor you have always to act as it would be a worst case. And you have no time to loose. Polish law is a death-low. Doctor must wait until the possibility of death is higher than of survive. And then can ne to late like in Częstochowa-case. Sorry for my pure English.

and they didn't act like that - the worst case was the death of the mother in this case - they did nothing to prevent it even as they aware that a sepsa would develope if they didn't act - it is clear from the texts she send to her family - also (as per TVP INFO) the woman reported that she feels worse and worse and the doctors said thye didn't see anything serious (TVP INFO quoted a woman who was in the same room as the deceased)

@gumishu

can anybody tell me it's not a systemic fault of the doctors: Federacja na rzecz Kobiet i Planowania Rodziny informuje, że od czasu opublikowania wyroku Trybunału Konstytucyjnego interweniowała w około 300 przypadkach, kiedy kobietom - mimo występowania przesłanki o zagrożeniu zdrowia lub życia - odmawiano wykonania aborcji.

it's as if the doctors are actually sabotaging the law (gremialnie) -

here's the link to the article -some passages are very telling: wydarzenia.interia.pl/autor/jolanta-kaminska/news-co-zmienil-wyrok-trybunalu-konstytucyjnego-w-sprawie-aborcji,nId,5625221

like this one for example: Federa monitoruje też sprawę karania lekarzy. - Od czasu ogłoszenia wyroku nie słyszałam o żadnym zarzucie prokuratorskim, dotyczącym lekarza ginekologa, który terminował ciążę niezgodnie z prawem - mówi.

TVPInfo ?

Well they would say that wouldn't they.

I doubt they would go as far as to make a fake news like that (falsely quoting a fellow patient) - if you do then I don't envy you

I understand they often try to manipulate things mostly by blowing things out of proportion but I never encountered an outright lie (maybe I missed something so I will gladly admit to be wrong if I'm corrected)

It really doesn't take a genius to realise that doctors will play it safe after the ruling and with the political powers so concerned with it.

you haven't read the second excerpt from the article - it clearly states there was not a single incident of charges against a doctor for an abortion since the infamous ruling - to me it looks like a systemic sabotage of the current law (by the doctors)

@gumishu
Yes but nomally doctors would terminate the pregnance at the very beginning of this case but it was impossible because of the law. The murder of the woman is the low and a child had anyway no chance.

because of the outrageous interpretation of the law by the doctors not by the law itself - also the threat to the mother started late in the pregnancy (it's probably usually the case) but the law allows for abortion in such a case in ANY phase of pregnancy

Why would there be if the doctors are playing it safe ?
The girls that want to have an abortion for other reasons go underground but those with abnormalities usually don't have that option

they are playing it safe until a feminist organisation demads an abortion from them (on behalf of the mothers) - and then they face no legal consequences (300 interventions of the organistaion and not a single instance of charges) - do you not see your own bias - do you not see that you see all things separately

And do you realise that trying to pretend that the TK ruling had nothing to do with it won't work?
Yes, the law doesn't forbit that precisely .
But yes, it does makes it more likely you won't get help when needed

my personal theory is that (at least a percentage of) doctors actively sabotage current abortion laws (the article seems to prove it) for idealogical reasons - most doctors are in favour of abortions on demand as far as I know

also there is a probability that the doctors act this way so as to make women have abortions privately for hard cash

Abnormal pregnancies that would have been in the past aborted are being carried to the point where the fetus starts to die and in the process endangers the women


In 22 week? Are you serious?

Again, I am not in favour of the new ruling for the most part (although the case of children aborted because of showing signs of the Down syndrome raises questions)

also what is there not comprehensible - if there is danger to the mother abortion is an option (as per the current law) - it doesn't matter if there is less or more of cases of such pregnancies - it seems the doctors are the obstacle not the law

The fetus was first diagnosed with some abnormalities from what I know. It would be easy to accuse the doctors of doing an illegal abortion under the guise of danger to life.

I'm not saying that the doctors are innocent in this. Obviously they screwed up. But it has to acknowledged that the TK ruling will definitely increase such cases.

there have been no cases of such charges so far - so where is the atmosphere of fear - also when pressed by a feminist NGO all the doctors performed abortions - they suddenly felt no fear of the law - don't you think something is smelly here

And you are saying these doctors risked the right to practise and their freedom? And do you think they actually wanted a death result?