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Poland's PiS = suspicion & fear?


polonius 54 | 420
2 Dec 2012 #1
Sharing something with PF does nto necessarily mean the poster agrees with it -- it can be just something for possible discussion.

Gazeta Wyborcza editor Adam Michnik told TVP INFO on Sunday that the abbreviation PiS should stand for 'podejrzliwość i strach' (suspicion and fear), not 'law and justice'. 'In today’s Poland Kaczyński is paving the way to Putinism, a system where political opponents can be jailed with impunity. The PiS president is wrecking the Polish state and he knows it. He’s very intelligent sort... He seems to have diagnosed things that he will never return to power if things are going well in Poland.'

TVP INFO on Sunday showed PiS leader Jarosław Kaczyński saying: 'On December 13th we will be commemorating the anniversary of martial law. But our march will be geared to today’s issues – freedom which is being increasingly threatened, social solidarity which is in bad shape and independence which is being questioned in different ways. Some say we must abandon our Polishness, and the mainstream media treat such appeals with all seriousness. We must mobilise Poles so we can create a force capable of carrying out a different, great project for our country, whose cornerstones will be freedom, solidarity and independence.'
Ziemowit 13 | 4,452
3 Dec 2012 #2
'In today’s Poland Kaczyński is paving the way to Putinism, a system where political opponents can be jailed with impunity.

This is political pure nonsense, as all of you know well. Every government abuse power (the American one with the Watergate affaire was an excellent example) from time to time, but walking over a certain line is a different story. The same what Michnik says of Kaczyński is said of Tusk by his political opponents from PiS and, let's be frank about it - you yourself are inclined to accuse Tusk of it as well. There's nothing new about abusing arguments in a political debate, so stop this bicie piany. The mere fact that a democratically elected party like PiS has handed power to PO in the result of a lost election says that Michnik is wrong, and all those who say that PO will not do the same are wrong as well.

Calling someone names in politics is nothing new. I will remind you the suggestion to call Palikot's party PiS since such an abbreviation could stand for "Palikot i Spółka".
smurf 39 | 1,981
3 Dec 2012 #3
I really wish he had been on that blasted airplane too. Poland would be a whole lot better off if he was dead too.
Harry
3 Dec 2012 #4
Poland would be a whole lot better off if he was dead too.

I don't think so. What Duck-boy has is a superb power to attract to him those people who are bitter and twisted and hate/envy filled. They then create a political party which has basically no chance of gaining power (as they'd need to win at least 45% of the vote in order to form a government) and thus the bitter and twisted and hate/envy filled have no influence on how the country is run. The people who should never be given power are simply never given power: instead they give the rest of us something good to laugh at!
smurf 39 | 1,981
3 Dec 2012 #5
Good point Harry, this march he's organizing soon. I don't really get it. It's not a Pis march, it's to commemorate martial law? Does he miss martial law, what did he have to do with martial law, wasn't he in jail at the time? Surely he doesn't support it. Unless he had such a good time dropping soap in the prison showers :P

Naw in all seriousness though, what's that march really for. It's not a protest, or if it is, what's it protesting? Is he really protesting that he can't even win an election? Surely he does actually know the definition of democracy?
Harry
3 Dec 2012 #6
what did he have to do with martial law, wasn't he in jail at the time?

Nope, he wasn't in jail for so much as a single day. Might it be possible that daddy pulled a few strings there?

what's that march really for.

Who cares? All it does is further alienate people from PiS and encourage people to get out and vote, even if the only reason they are voting is to prevent those crazy bigots from taking power.

Surely he does actually know the definition of democracy?

Knows it but doesn't care for it: PiS is all about settling scores and lining one's own nest.
smurf 39 | 1,981
3 Dec 2012 #7
Nope, he wasn't in jail for so much as a single day

Really? Huh, I had just presumed that him being in Solidanosz (or however the fuq you spell it) he'd have served time.

He had an influential Dad? Didn't know that.

even if the only reason they are voting is to prevent those crazy bigots from taking power

Voting for the less of two evils isn't the best form of democracy, then again is there a best form? I hope he never gets into any sort of power. I really hope that PO don't make any monumental eff ups and let that runt in...or if they do then yer man Palikot can defeat chairman jaro.
OP polonius 54 | 420
3 Dec 2012 #8
Lech Kaczyński was jailed udner martial law, but Jarosław was not. He told me they presumably left him at liberty so they could follow him to any contact places. But he knew he was being shadowed, so he watched his step and shed hsi tail whenever possible.
Harry
3 Dec 2012 #9
Huh, I had just presumed that him being in Solidanosz (or however the fuq you spell it) he'd have served time.

Strange that, isn't it? His twin was interned for some months (eight?) but for some reason Jarek never spent time inside.

He had an influential Dad? Didn't know that.

Daddy was a member of the AK but soon (less than two years) after the war was trusted enough by the party to be given senior positions and to go on to lecture the children of the elite. All a bit strange, given that most former AK members were extremely lucky not to get banged up for many years; some people have even gone as far as to say that his daddy's meteoric rise from the AK's grave was due to him being a turncoat traitor who joined the party as soon as he saw which way the wind was blowing.

I hope he never gets into any sort of power.

As said, PiS would need to get at least 45% of the vote in order to be in government, and that simply is not happening.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,452
3 Dec 2012 #10
Daddy was a member of the AK but soon (less than two years) after the war was trusted enough by the party to be given senior positions and to go on to lecture the children of the elite.

Actually, this judgement seems to appear frequently on the PF (however, I did not follow precisely who said it, my impression is that it usually appears in the posts of the members of the famous "little British gang", as called by a certain American member of the PF, a gang of three, as specified at one time by the moderator "p3undone". However, I would be happy to get directed to some reliable source(s) of this judgement since I've never come across it in the Polish press, including titles who evidently oppose PiS and such like except one remark in a paper whose name I don't remember since it was a very long time ago.
Donald_Tusk - | 5
3 Dec 2012 #11
One must apply common sense to the situation. If one was an AK member, yet after the war was allowed to finish one's studies and furthermore, one flourished in the Stalinist era and one was even trusted to work on the American embassy, one must be a member of the PZPR. One cannot deny such obvious facts.

One must also be aware that Jaroslaw and Lech were in the closest Presidential circles with President Walesa. One can see how easily files were altered/destroyed in those times, and therefore, one concludes that PZPR membership was inevitable.

One also realises that the Kaczynski twins would sue anyone who stated this as fact without any hard evidence in the files.
Harry
3 Dec 2012 #12
You may well have good points with all of those observations.

Actually, this judgement seems to appear frequently on the PF (however, I did not follow precisely who said it, my impression is that it usually appears in the posts of the members of the famous "little British gang", as called by a certain American member of the PF, a gang of three, as specified at one time by the moderator "p3undone".

Would you like to quote me specifically giving that judgment or would you prefer to apologise for yet again lying to the board?
peterweg 37 | 2,319
3 Dec 2012 #13
again lying to the board?

Here you go again, do you even understand what a lie is? Its deliberate distortion of the truth.

Given that you have no evidence whatsoever that what he says is untrue, it cannot possibly be a lie.
Ironside 50 | 11,489
3 Dec 2012 #14
One must apply common sense to the situation. If one was an AK member, yet after the war was allowed to finish one's studies and furthermore, one flourished in the Stalinist era and one was even trusted to work on the American embassy, one must be a member of the PZPR. One cannot deny such obvious facts.

Common sense is not your forte Delphi at least on PF! If you don't like certain politician why would you feel a need to attack his death parents, its dirty!
Ziemowit 13 | 4,452
4 Dec 2012 #15
Would you like to quote me specifically giving that judgment or would you prefer to apologise for yet again lying to the board?

Here you go again, do you even understand what a lie is? Its deliberate distortion of the truth. Given that you have no evidence whatsoever that what he says is untrue, it cannot possibly be a lie.

Thanks for that. Harry has no evidence that what I say is untrue, but goes on to call me a liar.

And since this is such a case, I strongly feel that the forum member Harry has used abusive language towards me, so I come to the conclusion that he has breached Rule 2 of the Forum Rules and Code of Conduct:

2. Posters should refrain from using abusive or derogatory language (unless it's necessary to explain the language's nuances). Posters who use abusive or derogatory language towards other users may be banned.

thus accordingly I table a motion to the administartor and moderator(s) to assess that the said user has indeed done so, and in case they judge I am true in my motion, I propose that the said user should be suspended from participating from the forum discussions for at least 30 days.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------

PS I Since I've never tabled any such motion against anyone before, can someone (with the exception of the poster Harry) tell me if the above is the right procedure to do so or shall I do anything else? Thank you.

PS II I think members of the PF should really do more for stopping offending and abuse, otherwise the Polish Forums will deteriorate even further and eventually will stop attracting people for whom offending and abuse is not a primary target of the forum activities
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
4 Dec 2012 #16
independence

Really, the last time I checked Poland was already independent.

Some say we must abandon our Polishness

Really, who are these people! Name one Mr Kaczynski, you fat ugly small liar.

and independence which is being questioned in different ways

Who is doing the questioning? Last time I checked it was Kaczynski calling Poland a Russian and German condominium (he is so Fuc*ing stupid that he doesn’t know that you can’t be a condominium for both, it’s either one or the other).

social solidarity which is in bad shape

Hmmm I wonder why that would be, it wouldn't have anything to do with all those marches, accusing the government of murder and trying to divide Poles between good and bad?

The real tragedy of Smolensk, was that the other Kaczynski wasn't on that plane.
sofijufka 2 | 191
4 Dec 2012 #17
some people have even gone as far as to say

o yes, it's a proof indeed
Harry, I don't like Jarek at all, but I dislike gossips and innuendos more.
Ironside 50 | 11,489
4 Dec 2012 #18
Really, who are these people! Name one

Palikot

you fat ugly small liar.

WTF? Did you think he was talking about Tusk/ well he said that Polishness he always associated with abnormality.
Lenka 3 | 2,735
4 Dec 2012 #19
I can say one thing:

suspicion and fear

really suits them.
When PiS ruled the government was suspicious and ppl were scared.
I know I and my friends were scared for our future.
Ironside 50 | 11,489
4 Dec 2012 #20
When PiS ruled the government was suspicious and ppl were scared.

Yes by the scaremongering media!
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #21
Lenka: When PiS ruled the government was suspicious and ppl were scared.
Yes by the scaremongering media!

Those of us who were actually in Poland when PiS were in charge here know exactly who was responsible for the atmosphere of suspicion and fear. But I can easily see why from your desk in Norway you might think otherwise.
Lenka 3 | 2,735
4 Dec 2012 #22
Yes by the scaremongering media!

No,not media,by the governments ideas.
CBA,IPN,constatnt accusations,3 press conferences a day.Teenagers protesting,Giertych stupid ideas,almost daily humiliation in international circles.

P.S.I must admit I was shocked to see who started this thread.It was a nice suprise.Good job Polonius! :)
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
4 Dec 2012 #23
Polishness he always associated with abnormality

I presume that you have a quote for that? And preferably not taken out of context?

Palikot

Can you quote Palikot saying we must abandon our Polishness ?
milky 13 | 1,657
4 Dec 2012 #24
Harry, I don't like Jarek at all, but I dislike gossips and innuendos more.

I think Harry is correct in what he is insinuating; the problem with an atmosphere of fear is that those who question the oppressor are either killed or sued/ostracized. Duck-face and Putin are definitely spun from the same history and have similar power fulfillment tactics.
sofijufka 2 | 191
4 Dec 2012 #25
Lenka: When PiS ruled the government was suspicious and ppl were scared.Yes by the scaremongering media!

I could say something about these times and media. For example, my editor-in-chief forbade to publish any nice or normal picture of Lech or Jarek, the same was in Agora.

As to the IPN - is Gauck also a liar and hate-monger?
I don't like Giertych, but he was right, that something must be done about young people education. Too much "róbta co chceta", poor curriculum in middle school and secondary school.
Lenka 3 | 2,735
4 Dec 2012 #26
I don't like Giertych, but he was right, that something must be done about young people education. Too much "róbta co chceta", poor curriculum in middle school and secondary school.

Yeah,it's better to mess with everything without real knowledge and plan.Amnesty,kids with expanded matura couldn't take basic tests but their results were assumed by how they did on expanded tests and so on.He did everything to ruin education.

I could say something about these times and media. For example, my editor-in-chief forbade to publish any nice or normal picture of Lech or Jarek, the same was in Agora.

Maybe but that doesn't change the fact that the real scaring they did all by themselfs.I was scared when I thought what they can do next.

As to the IPN - is Gauck also a liar and hate-monger?

I don't want to talk specific person.IPN was used as a threat and by many ppl was viewed as a political tool.
Basically I was really happy when all this came to an end.I was sick of explaining to foreigners what's going on in Poland and feeling ashamed for all this mess.And after all Poles decided.They showed what they think about this government.This was the only good thing-they stimulated many ppl.
Ironside 50 | 11,489
4 Dec 2012 #27
No,not media,by the governments ideas.
CBA,IPN,constatnt accusations,3 press conferences a day.

I guess in Poland there is no corruption or you mean you were living your life watching soap-operas and you were brutally remained of realities in Poland - that is scary indeed!

What is wrong with IPN? At lest people know whom they vote to power!lol Need to show their gratitude to all those snitches like Boni!

Constant accusation who was accusing whom and of what? Sun of Peru was well known to lead in silly and unfounded accusation but then it was Kaczyski's fault! I wonder how people can vote on such will-less Tusk when JK is his puppeteer?! lol

3 press conferences a day

Government communicating with people? Present gov do not need press conferences because press knows what to write in advance - improvement don't you agree?

Teenagers protesting

well you are right should send tanks on those bastards how dare they protesting!actually any protest such be nipped in the bud by ABW! Tusk will correct that blunder - protestors place is in jail!

Giertych stupid ideas

Well according to people who actually have a clue about education it weren't stupid ideas!

,almost daily humiliation in international circles.

What international circles? apart form Germany and Russian who have vested interest in Poland no other country gives ***** about Poland. If some internal Polish matters were published much in some western mass media it was because of:

1 ideological friends helping friends in Poland
2some circles in Poland with monies and contacts to have editorials published!

I presume that you have a quote for that? And preferably not taken out of context?

do some work for a change it will do you good!

Can you quote Palikot saying we must abandon our Polishness ?

Well, you can find it on PF!

Duck-face and Putin are definitely spun from the same history and have similar power fulfillment tactics.

Stick to your property bubble or somebody may qestion bubble in your head!gee
I'm sorry !I'm simply taken aback by the sheer ignorance of his/her post!

.And after all Poles decided.

I hope they are aware they cannot complain now?
Lenka 3 | 2,735
4 Dec 2012 #28
I guess in Poland there is no corruption or you mean you were living your life watching soap-operas and you were brutally remained of realities in Poland - that is scary indeed!

In my soap opera they showed how a women-still not proven guilty-had the oppurtunity (under CBA watch) to commit suicide.

What is wrong with IPN?

I already told that it was political tool and many historians stated that IPN historians are not credible.

Government communicating with people?

Communicating?It was rather yelling at their opponents.It was for show not information.

What international circles? apart form Germany and Russian who have vested interest in Poland no other country gives ***** about Poland.

That's a wonder then that when I met a guy from Holland the first question (when we started more serious topics) was "What's going on in Poland?"

it was because of:
1 ideological friends helping friends in Poland
2some circles in Poland with monies and contacts to have editorials published!

And I thought it was because Poland was in political mess.

Well according to people who actually have a clue about education it weren't stupid ideas!

As I said I was studying pedagogic at that time and had family members attending to every level of education.Believe me-I knew what was going on.And appropriate examples you can find above in my earlier post.

actually any protest such be nipped in the bud by ABW! Tusk will correct that blunder - protestors place is in jail!

Actualy it was Giertych who told the teenagers that they will face consequences.

And I don't complain although I never voted for PO.I definately prefer today's political reality.
Harry
4 Dec 2012 #29
I guess in Poland there is no corruption

Those of us who live here know that accusations of corruption are sometimes made for purely political reasons and cases of corruption are sometimes ignored for purely political reasons.

Government communicating with people? Present gov do not need press conferences because press knows what to write in advance - improvement don't you agree?

Remind us: did PiS invite the media to the signing of their agreement with the League of Polish fascists and Self-Offense? And didn't PiS want to force journalists to go through an approval process before they could work?

Well, you can find it on PF!

You claim it, you prove it: that's how things work here.

bubble in your head!

Mods, isn't that a derogatory statement?
Ironside 50 | 11,489
4 Dec 2012 #30
Those of us who live here know that accusations of corruption are sometimes made for purely political reasons and cases of corruption are sometimes ignored for purely political reasons.

other than that there is no corruption besides few odd cases! Am I reading you right?

the League of Polish fascists

there is no such organization and never were! Would that be a lie?


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