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Poland's PiS = suspicion & fear?


Harry
4 Dec 2012 #31
other than that there is no corruption besides few odd cases! Am I reading you right?

If you are correctly reading what I say, then you are lying about what I say.

there is no such organization and never were! Would that be a lie?

League of Polish Fascists is a common nickname for the Liga Polskich Rodzin, just as their charming (former?) youth wing, the Mlodzie Wszechpolska, were often referred to as the Giertych-Jungen.
Ironside 53 | 12,366
4 Dec 2012 #32
If you are correctly reading what I say, then you are lying about what I say.

So what are you actually saying ? Do you know yourself/?If you do just spit it out1

League of Polish Fascists is a common nickname for the Liga Polskich Rodzin

How common? Is there more people using that than you, your friends and Sierakowski?

In my soap opera they showed how a women-still not proven guilty-had the oppurtunity (under CBA watch) to commit suicide.

Yes, they should put her on the ground and cuff her not paying nice and letting her go to the bathroom or do you actually bevies the she was shot by them?

I already told that it was political tool and many historians stated that IPN historians are not credible.

Yeah I see what you mean they said that Jedwabne was committed by P{oles, still they flushed out some insolent snitches like Boni!

Communicating?It was rather yelling at their opponents.It was for show not information.

Possibly both!

That's a wonder then that when I met a guy from Holland the first question (when we started more serious topics) was "What's going on in Poland?"

Why? You should ask him not me!

And I thought it was because Poland was in political mess.

Well you thought wrong.

As I said I was studying pedagogic at that time and had family members attending to every level of education.

Well that hardly qualifies you to have a such strong opinion on the subject.

Actualy it was Giertych who told the teenagers that they will face consequences.

As they should! Using teenagers to do their dirty job - nice!

And I don't complain although I never voted for PO.I definately prefer today's political reality.

That good, and please remember in the future not to complain! Do you vote at all?
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,368
4 Dec 2012 #33
do some work for a change it will do you good!

I found the quote, and what he says is perfectly reasonable, when not taken out of context by the likes of you.

Well, you can find it on PF!

No I can't, because as you perfectly know, no such quote exists because he never said anything of that sort, so I am not sure why you are trying to defend Kaczynski’s lies.
Lenka 5 | 3,419
5 Dec 2012 #34
Yes, they should put her on the ground and cuff her not paying nice and letting her go to the bathroom or do you actually bevies the she was shot by them?

And I fought that their job was to watch her.Female agent could go with her or they could simply search her and the bathroom and no gun would be used.This case just showed their incompetence.They should be happy she didn't try to shoot them.

Yeah I see what you mean they said that Jedwabne was committed by P{oles, still they flushed out some insolent snitches like Boni!

They had many publications that were semi-professional.

Why? You should ask him not me!

It wasn't only him.I had many friends abroad at that time and most of them told the same story-ppl asking them what this whole mess is about.

Well you thought wrong.

I don't think so.I remember this period pretty good and I'm really grateful that it ended

Well that hardly qualifies you to have a such strong opinion on the subject.

First you accused me that I didn't have enough knowledge to make a statement and when I tell you that I studied pedagogics (meaning talking to ppl that were dealing with education almost all their lives and visiting many schools at different levels) and had family members at every level (meaning I knew what kids and parents are dealing with) you tell me that I'm not allowed to have strong opinion.Despite the fact that I can have strong opinion no matter how well acquainted with the subject I am you basically forbidden me from having my own point of view.What would satisfy you?Whom should I be in order to please your high standard?Minister of education?

As they should! Using teenagers to do their dirty job - nice!

First you say that it was great that they were able to do it and that Tusk would punish them and when I tell you that Giertych threatened them you say "Yeah,that's quite all right."

That good, and please remember in the future not to complain!

I may complain about many things but never about the fact that PiS is no longer in power.

Do you vote at all?

Every time since I turned 18.And not only presidential and parliament elections but also EU and local.I remember first free elections when my mother took me with her and let me cross the names.I was so proud! Then she explained me why it's so important and what we can do by this.I never missed elections even when I had to get special document because I was out of my town on the day of elections.
Ironside 53 | 12,366
6 Dec 2012 #35
I found the quote, and what he says is perfectly reasonable

You mean it is deem reasonable by the likes of you!

No I can't, because as you perfectly know, no such quote exists because he never said anything of that sort,

Of course he did - I'm not sure whether you can find it on the PF or not but indeed he said what he said!

And I fought that their job was to watch her

No they job was to arrest her and they failed by giving her VIP treatment!

They had many publications that were semi-professional.

So many others institutions but I have already agreed with you they do submit to political pressure- like in the Jedwabne case!

ppl asking them what this whole mess is about.

Germany using press to influence politics in Poland!

I don't think so.I remember this period pretty good and I'm really grateful that it ended

Why?

First you accused me that I didn't have enough knowledge to make a statement

Maybe our views differ! I think that Polish education is going to the dogs!

First you say that it was great that they were able to do it

I was being sarcastic,because demonstrations in democracy are something normal but inciting pupils to take part in the political campaign is dirty!

I may complain about many things but never about the fact that PiS is no longer in power.

Well, if that all you understand from politics then I do not think that your views matters!
How come you post about 100 posts a year!
OP polonius 54 | 420
6 Dec 2012 #36
There were 10 million in Solidarność, but only some 10,000 were jailed under marital law.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,368
6 Dec 2012 #37
You mean it is deem reasonable by the likes of you!

No, by anybody who can think reasonably, which clearly doesn't inculde you.

Of course he did - I'm not sure whether you can find it on the PF or not but indeed he said what he said!

No, he did not. And until you can proe otherwise, it will remain a lie.
Lenka 5 | 3,419
6 Dec 2012 #38
No they job was to arrest her and they failed by giving her VIP treatment!

When police arrest someone that person is under their care and police is responsible for that person.Why in this case the rules should be different?

And as tp the Vip person-everyone has the right to go to bathroom they just didn't follow basic safety rules.
If that's not incompetence then I don't know what is.

they do submit to political pressure

So they are not credible.

Germany using press to influence politics in Poland!

Also The Netherlands,UK and France.

Why?

Because I remember their style,the mess,the accusation and all the other things I tried to avoid by voting.

Maybe our views differ! I think that Polish education is going to the dogs!

You just stated that during Giertych's rule it was going ti the right direction.

I was being sarcastic,because demonstrations in democracy are something normal but inciting pupils to take part in the political campaign is dirty!

And teenagers were following Tusk order?Why should they?They were protesting because they saw what was going on.

Well, if that all you understand from politics then I do not think that your views matters!

What this has to do with my understanding?I meant that I may complain about politics but never in the way: "Oh my,PO made a mess,some other party made a mess I wish PiS was in power again"When someone beats you you're not giving him a chance to hit you again.

How come you post about 100 posts a year!

I have a life?
Ironside 53 | 12,366
7 Dec 2012 #39
If that's not incompetence then I don't know what is.

Gee I already greed with you they should cuff her right away!

And as tp the Vip person-everyone has the right to go to bathroom

Yes, after they are in the cell not in their own place!

So they are not credible.

Well in some cases their are and in some not - Boni admitted being a snitch!

Also The Netherlands,UK and France.

So ? Do you care? Poland has the right to the Independent policy!PiS wasn't doing anything bad, all has been used to Poland sucking up to them - so they didn't like when she stopped!

You just stated that during Giertych's rule it was going ti the right direction.

He just put some measures to prevent teachers being intimidated and humiliated by their pupils! That was step in the right direction!

And teenagers were following Tusk order?Why should they?They were protesting because they saw what was going on.

Are you kidding me? They sow *****, they were following media and were incited by others means as well! Anyway it wasn't that common!

What this has to do with my understanding

If you see PiS not being in power as the main reason for your vote than you do not understand much, unless you have some arguments other than - their are bad they made a mess and all that generalizations imprinted by the media!

No, by anybody who can think reasonably, which clearly doesn't inculde you.

Reasonably? You do not think reasonably end off!

No, he did not.

Sure he did! Whats the matter you should be happy about that and become Papua or Russian err maybe German if they would take you!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,368
7 Dec 2012 #40
Russian err maybe German if they would take you!

Well intellectually, you would certainly pass for a Russian. Like I said, no proof means that you, just like Kaczynsk, is lying.
Lenka 5 | 3,419
7 Dec 2012 #41
Yes, after they are in the cell not in their own place!

Every second since they arrested someone.Place doesn't matter.If they've followed safety rules none of it would have happen.But these are the consequences of creating and using such forces "na kolanie"(on a knee-fast and not to neatly.) and for political reasons.

So ? Do you care? Poland has the right to the Independent policy!PiS wasn't doing anything bad, all has been used to Poland sucking up to them - so they didn't like when she stopped!

This is the excuse of every person that doesn't have friends-It's not that I'm mean and stupid
just ppl doesn't understand me and are jelaus of me.PiS made a mess from international relationships.

Are you kidding me? They sow *****, they were following media and were incited by others means as well! Anyway it wasn't that common!

It's a wonder then that they never did it in the past.It was the only time teenagers protested Minister of Education.

He just put some measures to prevent teachers being intimidated and humiliated by their pupils! That was step in the right direction!

It depends on the teacher.How come there are teachers that never have a problem with discipline.And even if he was doing good job with that(and I don't think so) it was overshadowed by his other ideas that screwed things up.

If you see PiS not being in power as the main reason for your vote

I already told you that I vote everytime.PiS has nothing to do with it.If you're refering to these words:

Because I remember their style,the mess,the accusation and all the other things I tried to avoid by voting.

then yes.When I vote I try to choose ppl that are wise and responsible and by that keep lunatics away from the power.

unless you have some arguments other than - their are bad they made a mess and all that generalizations imprinted by the media!

I already gave you many arguments.But there is one good enough for me-I lived here when PiS was in charge,I had to follow their rules and I felt bad in my own country (besides many times Mr Kaczyński excluded me from being a real Pole in his speeches).And I wasn't the only one.The elections after their "5 minutes of fame" showed that many Poles thought the same.
Ironside 53 | 12,366
7 Dec 2012 #42
Every second since they arrested someone.

We can argue to and fro about the details I say they should put her on the ground and cuff her and you insist that shoudl watch her better - I agree they ****** up!

the consequences of creating and using such forces "na kolanie"(on a knee-fast and not to neatly.) and for political reasons.

Political reasons? Do you claim there is no corruption in Poland? I think it was a very mild solution, if somebody wants to get involved in corruption on any level should be punished - that is simple enough! I would make a law - if you cannot prove where your money come form you are investigated!

This is the excuse of every person that doesn't have friends-It's not that I'm mean and stupid

That is manipulation, who cares for excuses? Political and financial worlds are driven by self-interest, nobody is going look after Poland's well being!

PiS made a mess from international relationships.

You mean by stepping out of line?

It's a wonder then that they never did it in the past.It was the only time teenagers protested Minister of Education.

Exactly my point!

It depends on the teacher.How come there are teachers that never have a problem with discipline

Come on, of course they have and had problem with discipline! It is happening all the time especially after so called reform!

his other ideas that screwed things up.

Ah you are ideological ally of Harry! Well ...

PiS has nothing to do with it.If you're refering to these words

See there is something I don't understand you said that the most important is to keep PiS put of power and yet you do not vote PO - it doesn't sound quite right!

-I lived here when PiS was in charge,I had to follow their rules

What rules?

I felt bad in my own country

If you are happy in PRL-bis then there is nothing I can say!

Well intellectually, you would certainly pass for a Russian

Oh really/ You should be grateful to Russians because otherwise you and your kind wouldn't exist!

Like I said, no proof means that you,

Yes i cannot be bothered because you would say that I took those words out of context!
Lenka 5 | 3,419
7 Dec 2012 #43
Political reasons? Do you claim there is no corruption in Poland?

In every country you have corruption but fighting with corruption shouldn't be treated as a tool to gain political power

You mean by stepping out of line?

No,by making enemies from our friends(or at least neutral).

See there is something I don't understand you said that the most important is to keep PiS put of power and yet you do not vote PO - it doesn't sound quite right!

I don't have to vote for PO in order to keep PiS from power.If voices are devided parties have to join their efforts and the party I'm voting for is not going to ally with PiS.

Exactly my point!

They finally had enough.

Ah you are ideological ally of Harry! Well ...

How did you make such assumption?This "Well" sounds protectional and I never treated you in this way.

What rules?

Laws their created and atmosphear in which they ruled.

If you are happy in PRL-bis then there is nothing I can say!

PRL-bis?Really?It's the weirdest expression I ever heard.In what manner today's Poland has enything to do with PRL?From what I read you don't live in Poland.Have you ever lived here?
gumishu 13 | 6,134
7 Dec 2012 #44
In every country you have corruption but fighting with corruption shouldn't be treated as a tool to gain political power

would you call SLD government before the PiS-lead coalition as a corrupt system (you sure know what Rywin commission was)

if so then fighting for political power sometimes is a direct fight with corrupt systems, my belief is we still live in a corrupt systems and I have reasons to believe this.
Ironside 53 | 12,366
7 Dec 2012 #45
In every country you have corruption but fighting with corruption shouldn't be treated as a tool to gain political power

Well that sounds good but what it actually means? If you are saying that PiS was doing something illegal and wrong in that regard you shoudl bring on some examples!

No,by making enemies from our friends(or at least neutral

Sorry?

They finally had enough.

With mass media help to be sure!

Laws their created and atmosphear in which they ruled.

You mean you were afraid to bribe somebody?lol

I ever heard.In what manner today's Poland has enything to do with PRL?

There are different circumstances but the same people are in power! Also favoritism, mediocrity, bureaucracy.
Lenka 5 | 3,419
7 Dec 2012 #46
if so then fighting for political power sometimes is a direct fight with corrupt systems,

In this manner yes but creating administration to fight with corruption when in fact it's a tool to get more power is as sick as corruption itself.

but the same people are in power!

I knew you'd say that.But even if we assume the same ppl are in charge today's Poland is not PRL.If you ask anybody(missing PRL or otherwise) they would tell you that it's not the same in 90%.

Well that sounds good but what it actually means? If you are saying that PiS was doing something illegal and wrong in that regard you shoudl bring on some examples!

Look at my answer to Gumishu.
Ironside 53 | 12,366
7 Dec 2012 #47
ut even if we assume the same ppl are in charge today's Poland is not PRL.If you ask anybody(missing PRL or otherwise) they would tell you that it's not the same in 90%

Well monopoly in media, fiances, soon there will be one party or three parties but no differences between them, over-depended and exploited by the EU! I would say that in all what counts it is PRL-bis except for the fact they people can legally keep their money and high life!

In this manner yes but creating administration to fight with corruption when in fact it's a tool to get more power

Correct me if I'm wrong but parliamentary commission didn't find anything of the sort!

I think that system in Poland should be overthrown!
Lenka 5 | 3,419
7 Dec 2012 #48
monopoly in media

With so many idealogically different sources we hardly have a monopoly.Add to that internet and you have wide range of informations.

parliamentary commission

Parliamentary commisions are a joke.Always were.

I think that system in Poland should be overthrown!

Thankfuly it's not your decision to make.But out of curiosity-what would you use in replacement?What's your ideal system and whatppl would you use?
noreenb 7 | 557
7 Dec 2012 #49
Polonius
Gazeta Wyborcza editor Adam Michnik told TVP INFO on Sunday that the abbreviation PiS should stand for 'podejrzliwość i strach' (suspicion and fear), not 'law and justice'

How clever, although he forgot that their real intentions is to know "the truth".
Fear? Before what?
Their statements are so daring that I'd rather not call them with a word connected with "fear".
jon357 74 | 21,782
2 Sep 2015 #50
Merged: Financial markets have no confidence in PiS clowns

It isn't possible to cut and paste from this (the Financial Times don't allow that) however the article says that unfortunately many voters in the forthcoming election are too young to remember what a mess the short-lived PiS regime was and it expresses real concerns about their incompetence in international affairs and financial issues:

on.ft.com/1MVVPOr
Wulkan - | 3,203
2 Sep 2015 #51
Financial markets have no confidence in PiS clowns

Yet it's the clowns from PO that are the leading party for years who made the financial mess in Poland, how many years do you need to simplify the tax system in the country to make it more business friendly? luckily they will not be the leading party very soon.
jon357 74 | 21,782
2 Sep 2015 #52
Simplifying the tax system is trivia compared to the false promises made by Jaro's clowns - masive spending that they would never be able to fund.

Easy for younger voters to forget the unkept promises from last time.
Crow 155 | 9,025
2 Sep 2015 #53
fear from regime in Poland is possible only because is Poland`s ruling elite absolutely separated from Polish people and isolated from viable influences from Slavic countries such is Cezska, Slovakia and Serbia. At the same time, that same corrupted regime exposed Poland and Poles to merciless assimilation by Poland`s EU and NATO partners- USA and west of Europe.
Harry
2 Sep 2015 #54
it expresses real concerns about their incompetence in international affairs and financial issues:

More than a few of the offering memorandums that I've been reading recently include possible PIS-led government in the risk factors sections as something that can be expected to have a damaging effect on the profits of the companies and the Polish economy as a whole.
smurf 39 | 1,971
2 Sep 2015 #55
how many years do you need to simplify the tax system in the country

Tax system is pretty straightforward here.
However, the archaic version of Polish that everything is written is is crazy. They should change it to normal everyday Polish, not that legal/business mumbo jumbo.

ZUS has got to go though, it's a feckin joke.
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
3 Sep 2015 #56
ZUS has got to go though

It never will Smurf. You know full well it is the major "employer" in some towns. All you can do is vote with your feet, as I did.
smurf 39 | 1,971
3 Sep 2015 #57
All you can do is vote with your feet, as I did.

Yea, I agree Doug and I've done the same.
jon357 74 | 21,782
3 Sep 2015 #58
Yes, as so many do, me too...
pawian 221 | 24,014
20 Jul 2022 #59
PiS members are like leeches who suck out Poland`s wealth for free.
A good example:

trojmiasto.wyborcza.pl/trojmiasto/7,35612,28702621,ponad-100-tys-zl-nagrody-dla-prezesa-radia-gdansk-wyrobil.html

The Chairman of the local public Polish Radio branch in Gdańsk, controlled by PiS, got a special bonus from the board (also PiS) amounting to 109.000 PLN for the previous year. At the same time, the profit of the radio amounted to 436 PLN. Amasing!

The symbolic PLN 436 and PLN 0.18 was shown by the public Radio Gdańsk, while three neighboring public stations were positive from 440,000. up to PLN 1.6 million. This did not prevent the supervisory board from awarding the president of the Gdańsk radio station, Adam Chmielecki, over 109,000. PLN annual award.
Anthonylas28
21 Jul 2022 #60
Rewarding brave public service, people who broadcast content which is not accord with international freemasonry are risking their lives, excellent work by PiS once again, rewarding these heroes.

Where did the profits for the three neighbouring public stations come from? Who paid these stations??


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