Abortion still under control in Poland

Unlike the stupid man ie yourself, just in case you're too stupid to figure that out :) You were foolish enough to cite the case in Ireland as a case of doctor's error, in your own words - 'as far as I remember'. But you remembered incorrectly. You stated something without checking your facts. It wasn't doctor's error. It was a deliberate decision based on the abortion law. The law at that time tried to give equal value to the life of both the mother and the child and was worded as follows:

The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.

That was the wording approved by the people of Ireland in a referendum. It was an attempt at a compromise between two opposing views. In theory it sounded nice and was intended to protect life. In practice it proved nebulous and fatal for Savita Halappanavar. What happened in Ireland was nothing short of barbaric. A woman taking a week to die in agonizing pain in a modern, well equipped European hospital, her husband coping with the loss of his child and watching his wife die and being able to do nothing to save her. When the people saw the outcome of this 'compromise' they resolved that it should never happen again and campaigned to have the law repealed which it was in 2018.


But it's those very same believers who demonstrated and pushed to have the abortion law changed in Ireland. Plenty of practising Catholics voted to change the abortion law. Ordinary Irish Catholics don't concern themselves with theology, but with compassion, and act according to their conscience. They debate and reflect on the morality of the issue and decide accordingly. Unfortunately in Poland, the people are not given the power to vote directly on the issue. Let the people of Poland debate, discuss and decide.

@Atch
Excellent points! In Poland though, there is no referendum, laws are simply jammed up peoples behinds based on ideology. If there had been a referendum it would be simple and PiS could not be blamed, but this is not the case here.

Realistically speaking Pro choice advocates might be better off waiting a few more years, giving time the chance to reduce their opponents among the old people instead of losing a public vote on it prematurely and having to live with it for a generation or so.

Serbian media writes about chaos in Poland regarding woman rights. are you people sane there in Poland? what you doing? Of course that woman have right to decide would they give birth or not. They aren`t factories for babies. Help them, stimulate them to give birth, educate them but don`t force them on anything.

There is chaos in Poland not only regarding women's rights. Basically, the chaos is now crawling into other areas.


Not much. Being insane has been our speciality for the last few centuries.

That's why I like my binary, black-and-white approach to almost everything. I hate ambiguities and uncertainty.
So, I will say it again: a woman's life first and nothing else on the table.


Yes, but not because they were Catholics but in spite. They had to fight their internal demons first, win, and then come out in force to win again.


That does not mean our obligation to help her abort. I have a right to shoot myself but that does not mean the state must give me a loaded gun.

I have a right to cut off my left arm but that does not mean that the procedure must be allowed just because I found a willing doctor.

So what about that "my body my choice" rule?

as far as I know the law allows termination of a pregnancy that is threatening the life or the health of the mother and the Tribunal's verdict didn't change a thing in that matter - so: blame the doctors

So this is your credo: "blame whoever you may, but never blame PiS"?

what is PiS to blame for in that case?

Anything if you are a leftist.


Of course, it does.
You were correct about the doctors who forgot who their client was. It was the woman, for crying out loud, not her "fetus", husband or uncle.

For this Julia Przyłębska's fake Tribunal of theirs?
The doctors' decision was


Read post #1,831 of Atch which describes an analogous case in Ireland. Also, read how it all ended in Ireland.

PiS is not eternal, darling.

again abortion law allows for termination of a pregnancy that threatens the life of the mother or is a serious threat to her health - what's there not to understand

also you take a word of a foreigner (Atch) for interpretation of Polish law - not wise if you ask me

but not in cases where the fetus is not viable... this case both factors were in play and the doctors (fearing legal repercussions from a government willing to persecute them) chose to be conservative

bad laws (like Polish abortion law and the ruling of the constitutional tribunal last year) lead to bad outcomes....

it doesn't matter if the fetus is viable or not - if the preganancy threatens the life of the mother it can be terminated: tvp.info/52053825/kiedy-aborcja-w-polsce-jest-dopuszczalna-co-zmienil-wyrok-trybunalu-konstytucyjnego

an excerpt from the article in Polish: W uzasadnieniu wyroku TK zapisano jednak, że aborcja jest dopuszczalna w przypadku, gdy "duże prawdopodobieństwo ciężkiego i nieodwracalnego upośledzenia płodu albo nieuleczalnej choroby zagrażającej jego życiu wiąże się z zagrożeniem dla życia i zdrowia matki".


then blame it on doctors cause as per TK verdict the law allows the termination

as a side note: I'm not in favour of the latest TK verdict on abortion - however all this argument here uses a strawman

How about filing an emergency petition to proceed with saving her life and to hell with everything else - including any legal ambiguities...
Here, hospitals do it routinely when some Jesus freak parent refuses treatment for the child on the "religious" grounds. I wouldn't be surprised if some judges were dragged from bed in the dead of night for this reason.

It wasn't though, was it. And a woman needlessly died.


There needs to be a referendum on whether people prefer the previous law or the new 'TK' ruling

I see. When the leftists want their leftist plans implemented, a referendum is good. To close the borders and stop the hordes - a referendum is bad. Real baaad.

Did I get it right?

if it wasn't then neither PiS or doctors can be blamed - probably just bad karma


yeah - that's how liberals perceive democracy - if we win it's democracy - if not it's not democracy anymore

Both share their blame.


Are you seriously trying to suggest that someone died due to "bad karma?

yes, I do - sue me

So what is 'bad karma' and why do you suggest it may have caused this person's death?

Fine, let assume I remember it wrong. It doesn't matter as your example has nothing to do with the Polish one. Yes, both are about a pregnat woman, both are picked up by pro-abortion zealots and stupid people like you to support your sick and stupid views. Nothing more.


Do you know why you are stupid? Becasue in Poland there is no law that bans all abortions, in case of saving life of the mother they should be saving her life. Nothing stopped them from doing their job. There is no law or a custom of saving a child on the expense of the mother life.

I see lots of stupit people like you bulid a big montain out of the mole hill.
All that shitstrom in media is build on same assumption and few guesses.


Exaclly but stupid people here don't know that. The rest of the are zealtots keen to kill children and they don't care about the truth.


off leading by example, they should abort themselves.

BS. PiS was not there in the operating room. The doctors were and turned Euro weasels.


Brilliant. Better late than never to help reduce that carbon footprint.
BTW, I heard they make great guns in Radom.

Pro-life state in the middle of progressive Europe - nay, the progressive EU!

O tempora o mores.

Better yet..."progressive" ...

Demos all over Poland to honour the woman called Iza who had to die due to strict law by PiS.

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she died because of idiot doctors not because of any law - if a pregancy threatens the life or health of the mother it can be terminated according to the law

Stop manipulating. The doctors prefered to remain wary due to the existing law and the ruling party which is known for unjust harassment of their opponents

the doctors are idiots simple as that - PiS figures (but also people from Konfederacja) clearly stated what is the law - and the law is when a pregnancy is a threat to life or health of the mother it can be terminated

And they have broken other laws on multiple occassions and the doctors perfectly knew about it and prefered to linger so that they wouldn`t be unjustly prosecuted by PiS.

Gumi, stop twisting now, all decent people realise it is PiS` fault. If you claim otherwise, you are a liar and manipulator. Simple.