Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash

Crowie, you've forgotten that Tusk was already the leader. Kaczinski's brother had already been dumped from his role as premier.

Some of the posts on the previous page are from Americans who are trying to compare Poland's system of government with their own. Poland does not have an executive President. The leader of Poland is the Premier. And no need to assassinate a PiSuar Premier because they'd lost the election with little or no possibility of ever regaining power.

LK was a lame duck (no pun intended) president, nearing the end of his term of office who was famous only for making a hash of the job. A politician who will go down in history as Poland's worst with only two famous quotes "Teraz K*rwa My" "Now it's our f*cking turn" (at corruption) and "Spieprzaj Dziadu" F*uck off you old tramp. That and making a fool of himself by turning up at a foreign meeting to which he wasn't invited and had no vote or right to speak. His so-called fourth republic project was already dead and he was no more than an embarrassment and a political joke.

All the harping on about conspiracies by the politically toxic JK and the clown Macierewicz has one positive aspect though - it will keep them forever away from the corridors of power.

Jon, you forgot the excruciatingly embarassing moment he giggled like a village idiot as Tusk read a few words of welcome to Condaleza Rice in English. It's on YT if anyone can face watching it again.

Crow, would there be any point whatsoever in sharing my thoughts with a loon like you?

yes, Tusk was PM back then, in heavy disagreements with President Kaczinski. After Kaczinski died, it was Tusk who directed foreign policy of Poland and Poland still follow that direction.

Don`t forget that Tusk play role of EU`s obedient boy. Man is well positioned in EU circles. Rewarded.


As a loon to loon, you are welcome.

Nicely put jon. The only detail I'd add is that LK was mere months away from being embarrassed in the presidential election where he would have been the first president ever to have been knocked out in the first round. He would have been swiftly forgotten but instead he lives on and serves Poland by ensuring that the bitter jealous failures who idolize him will never get anywhere near power again.

Harry

The plane was carry more than garbage politicians, there were very many high ranking military personnel aboard. Given the Russians Fascist ambitions, they made a temping target.

In retrospect it probably makes no military difference, as the true nature of the Russians have woken up the West to the threat and hard cash is being spent of building up defense. Guilty or not of this crime, there is only one way to deal with them. Kill them.

Jon are you advocating extermination as an acceptable solution as long as it pertain to politicians? It is a slippery path.

JollyRomek, as the assertion had always been maintained that it was either an accident, or, the Russians had something to do with it, to read that the pilot, a fellow Pole presumably, may have "pulled a Lubitz" on his fellow passengers (not to mention the Polish nation!!!) is pretty tough stuff. Starker Tobak, wouldn't you think so??

@ Lyzko, no one here has ever said that the pilot was suicidal and brought the plane down on purpose. However, he made the mistake of attempting to land the plane because Kaczinski demanded that he would land.

As the pilot, he is in charge of the plane no matter how much Kaczinski wants him to land. If he deems it unsafe to land, he should not have attempted anyway just because Kaczinski wanted him to.

No one here has ever mentioned anything about the pilot being suicidal. How you got to that conclusion is simply beyond me.

You asserted the pilot MIGHT have made a landing error. Maybe so, and maybe not. Even Roth concedes we'll never know for certain:-)

A certain Barbara Stanisławczyk has recently written a book covering events from Katyń to Smoleńsk. I haven't read the book as of yet. I only read an interview with her in our local Polish-language daily!

I have never said he "MIGHT have made a landing error". The pilot decided to land the plane, despite the fact that he knew it was not safe to do so. He did because Kaczinski told him to land.

There is no room for speculation. No room for conspiracy theories.

And you were also right there in the cockpit, I suppose:-LOL

Try again, JollyRomek!

What a mature comment :-)

Yes, I thought so. How about you?:-)
LOL

Fact remains, aside from a black box, much of what went on is reliant on hearsay.

'Vox', who was "exterminated" here? Precisely no one.

It was an accident and any ranting or conspiracy theorising otherwise by the lunatic fringe of Polish politics and similar intellectually needy characters cannot and will not change that.

Do read posts more carefully and try to understand the language in which they are written before commenting. Your question above makes no sense.

The well-known German journalist Juergen Roth might feel differently! He claims conspiracy.

Juergen Roth is hardly a source you want to proudly mention when trying to argue your case. He has been in court several times, had to either take his books of the market completely or had to publish revised versions.

He has lost several court cases due to the fact that he was not able to proof his claims .

Hardly someone you would want to base your argument on.

Nevertheless, often times a certain investigative reporter is called names such as "crackpot" (Verrueckter) etc., when in fact they are only unmasking unpopular issues which the status quo would prefer to simply sweep under the rug.

Lots of folks said the same as you about Guido Knopp and we all know what nonsense that turned out to be.

N.B.
One man's crackpot's another man's soldier of truth:-)

Hard to know what the Guido Knopp connection is here. He's just a journalist and a heavily criticised one at that. No connection to the accident at Smolensk at all.

Simply that, like Roth, only for different reasons, Knopp too has heavily criticized for his popular treatments of the Third Reich.
Many also accused him of being less than truthful etc..

No, there's no connection whatsoever with the Smoleńsk tragedy, only an aside as apparently a fellow poster has taken issue with my mentioning Juergen Roth within the pervue of responsible journalism:-)

One issue here is that in PL, it tends to be fringe media like Fronda and Gazeta Polska rather than more respectable publications, perpetuating conspiracy theories and giving space to the lunatic ravings of Macierewicz and the Smolenskists.

True, jon. Many such fora unfortunately are (over-)populated by ignoramuses who give vent to their idiotic views, where at once time in pre-Internet days they might have screamed them from Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park etc.

Yes exactly Lyzko. And the key thing is that in real life in PL you just don't hear people going on about the accident.

In this case however, all he is doing is spread claims which he can not back up. It has been shown many times. He has even been brought to court by Gerhard Schroeder, Germany's ex Chancellor.

Needless to say that he also lost that case.

It is not investigative journalism when someone comes up with new theories and claims constantly in the hope that one day he is right.

It does make sense, it made you rant for half a page.

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A final report without evidence doesn't make sense.

Really? No ranting, just an accurate description of Poland's worst ever politician and his creepily obsessed political heirs.

You, however, seem to think someone was "exterminated" and just like some of the nuttier of the PiSuarzy expect "evidence" for some crime which just didn't occur.

By the way, although Poland had everything to gain from the removal of LK, the Polish government didn't. The voters were about to consign him to the dustbin if history as they did his twin. Now the problem is that he died before he could disgrace himself further and is remembered by some in a better light than he deserved.

Plus the loss of some of the countries most able individuals of different political persuasions, most of them not supporters of PiS or similar tendencies.

The government and most of the intelligentsia are perfectly happy to accept the report, so why are the PiSuarzy and the sinister 'defenders of the cross' still hell bent on making even bigger fools of themselves by harping on about evidence for something that never happened?

Because they need a martyr. Their whole belief system is predicated on divine sacrifice, and so by elevating this inadequate they redeem him. They were given further 'proof' of their claims when brother duck went a bit crazy after the crash. His insane mutterings somehow gave credence to the conspiracy in their minds. Why PiS doesn't get rid of Jarek K, I'll never know. He's electoral poison, and their base is literally dying out.

Jon, you are relentlessly ranting for pages and pages in this thread. Would you be so kind and stop posting off-topic?

Roger5


I see your sectarian mind cannot get over the fact that Poland is a Catholic country. However, there is nothing in a way of a hard evidence that would justify to give a name - a final report to yet another attempt of the inept government to cover their backs in the case of the investigation that for all the practical purposes have been botched by them a big time.

I am not a member of a sect, and Poland is a secular democracy. Where I live over 50% of the people are not Roman Catholic.

No it isn't, as this thread points out: https://polishforums.com/life/changing-rcc-habits-poles-67718/

Really?

Everyone back on topic please. This thread is not about whether Poland is a Catholic country.