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Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash


OP pawian 161 | 9,848
19 Dec 2012  #571
Hey, more patience, please. It took Italians 5.5 years to conclude the Milan crash case. If you want to compare, Smoleńsk case is still 3 years in plus.

This week 4 Russian soldiers are going to appear in Russian court for stealing one of Smolensk crash victim`s credit cards and withdrawing money from accounts.

theepochtimes.com/n2/world/russian-soldiers-admit-taking-credit-cards-from-crash-victim-37045.html
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
30 Dec 2012  #572
I must be confused. I know this news only broke recently so why does it say the article was created and updated on 8th June 2 1/2 years ago?
OP pawian 161 | 9,848
30 Dec 2012  #573
It was done on purpose the secret of which cannot be revealed right now. Sorry. But to help you relax, here is a current link:
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
30 Dec 2012  #574
Since it is classifed, zauważyłem krótko po moim wpisie że to stało sie dawno i najnowszy news dotyczy tylko tego że Rosjanie stana przed sadem i moga dostac do 6 lat.

Apparently 3 of the 4 had previous convictions to do with theft and fraud, yet they were still in the Russian army.
OP pawian 161 | 9,848
30 Dec 2012  #575
It is the problem of all armies. You wouldn`t like to know what kind of guys serve in American army.....
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
30 Dec 2012  #576
Yeah not just America but in Britain, Poland too I would think. That is the paradox, on the one hand you got to respect soldiers for doing the job they do and being prepared to put their lives on the line if they have to, but on the other, some of them are most likely to be criminals who were no good at anything else, so they went in to the army, in the hope of decent pay and getting a lot of attention from hot women [who love a brave man in uniform], with the added hope that no wars break out that they have to fight in.
OP pawian 161 | 9,848
30 Dec 2012  #577
Yeah not just America but in Britain, Poland too I would think.

Yes.

That is the paradox, on the one hand you got to respect soldiers for doing the job they do and being prepared to put their lives on the line if they have to,

Yeah.

but on the other, some of them are most likely to be criminals who were no good at anything else,

Yeap.

so they went in to the army, in the hope of decent pay

Yup.

and getting a lot of attention from hot women

Wow! I didn`t know that.

with the added hope that no wars break out that they have to fight in.

Exactly.
juzwa butrym
26 Oct 2013  #578
It is clear from the evidence that the aircraft was destroyed by an explosion.
It is clear that Tusk and Komorowski have participated in a ghastly coverup.
Why would Tusk agree to the Polish government officials being transported to Smolensk on a Russian aircraft freshly refurbished for special tasks?
Tusk looks very much like Wilde's Picture of Dorian Grey.
It is clear that there are a lot of evil people who belittle and strive to harm Poland using the internet as a vehicle of slander.

It is clear that PO is in cahoots with the Russians.
If Poles do not sweep away this trash in the forthcoming elections, I will be shocked and surprised.
Another Targowica cannot be allowed.

Poland is not yet lost, but it is still occupied.
The Observer
27 Oct 2013  #579
The guy above is insane. Much like Macierewicz's team of so called experts who claim it was an explosion and go to court because someone didn't know how to use Skype during a lousy conference. Sad days when this aircrash is used by PiS as a political weapon to wage a war for votes.
xzqbq7 2 | 104
27 Oct 2013  #580
The guy above is insane. Much like Tusk's team of so called experts (Miller and Lasek) who claim they explained the death of Polish president, but are still testing the tree that was supposed to cause the crash and are unable to show who, when and how mesaured thsi tree. They never had independed access to any evidence, and the so called Miller commission is not even recognized by Russians!!! Sad days when the death of 96 elite Polish people is used by Peło as a political weapon to wage a war for votes. Cannot wait for Tusk to speak.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,653
27 Oct 2013  #581
It is clear from the evidence that the aircraft was destroyed by an explosion.

Would that be the evidence that they spectacularly failed to present to the Military commission investing the crash?

Oh yes, the same experts - remind us, what were their qualifications? One of them observed plane wings from the window, another threw paper planes as a child...

It is clear that Tusk and Komorowski have participated in a ghastly coverup.

Except it isn't clear at all, as witnessed by the utter lack of interest by anyone but PiS supporters in the claim.

Why would Tusk agree to the Polish government officials being transported to Smolensk on a Russian aircraft freshly refurbished for special tasks?

Perhaps you need to learn some facts rather than Gazeta Polska hysteria.

The Tupolev planes were the Polish VIP planes. They were adapted to NATO requirements, and had undergone a major overhaul not so long before. It's almost certain that NATO aviation experts would have examined the plane thoroughly upon return from the overhaul, not least because they would've wanted to know what the Russians were doing with military aviation upgrades.

Tusk looks very much like Wilde's Picture of Dorian Grey.

Not really. He looks like a man that knows that he's going to win the next election if Macierewicz doesn't shut up.

It is clear that there are a lot of evil people who belittle and strive to harm Poland using the internet as a vehicle of slander.

Paranoia. Which US state do you live in, and how many guns do you own?

It is clear that PO is in cahoots with the Russians.

I think PO couldn't care less about the issue these days.

If Poles do not sweep away this trash in the forthcoming elections, I will be shocked and surprised.

Your lot were saying the same before the 2011 elections. Fortunately, Poland voted for PO, and they will do so again.

Another Targowica cannot be allowed.

Strange that you would mention Targowica, as PiS actually committed several acts of treason, including asking a foreign government to interfere in Polish domestic affairs.

Does anyone know when the Military commission is due to release their report? It's certainly a very thorough investigation, as witnessed by the fact they at least bothered to listen to "experts" who turned out to be nothing such.

It is notable that PiS went almost straight back to the Smolensk rhetoric as soon as they lost in Warsaw - which reminded voters yet again of their real agenda and why their Parliamentary "Commission" (that only allows PiS members to join) is nothing but a complete joke.
johnny reb 17 | 3,537
29 Mar 2015  #582
Sometimes it takes awhile to convict the guilty.
I read this from the Krakow newspaper with my coffee this morning.

In a statement on March 27, Col Szelag said the Polish investigation had concluded that the Russian air traffic controllers put the flight at risk when they allowed the crew to attempt a landing in fog, and with imprecise instructions. The Polish officials, said Col Szelag, are accused of appointing crew members who did not have the experience or qualifications to fly such a high profile mission in bad weather.

Colonel Szelag said the Russians faced up to eight years in jail if they were tried in Poland and found guilty of 'unintentionally causing the crash'. He did not reveal the full details of the prosecution's case.
Dougpol1 30 | 3,046
30 Mar 2015  #583
There was only one man guilty of causing that crash. And only Poland would have been so stupid as to bury him in it's holiest of crypts.
Harry
31 Mar 2015  #585
the Russian air traffic controllers put the flight at risk when they allowed the crew to attempt a landing in fog

a) The Russian air traffic controllers were not able to to prevent the flight from attempting to land; civilian air traffic controllers cannot order civilian flights to do anything: if a pilot decides he is landing, he is landing.

b) The Russian air traffic controllers told PLF 101 that there were no conditions for landing.
c) PLF asked for permission to make a trial approach, ATC gave that but with a minimum of 100 metres; PLF 101 went below 100 metres and the crew knew they were below 100 metres.

and you know this for sure, how?

The CVR and the past actions of the man in question.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
31 Mar 2015  #587
At the end of the day, only the pilot is to blame for what happened. Even if Kaczynski told him / ordered him to land, it is the pilots call to make.

As the pilot, he is in charge of the aircraft. Similar to you driving a car, turn at a crossroad and your passenger tells you that there are no cars coming. You wouldn't take his word for it and simply start driving, would you?
Harry
31 Mar 2015  #588
Even if Kaczynski told him / ordered him to land, it is the pilots call to make.

What happened to the last pilot to refuse a direct order by Kaczynski to land a plane? What is he flying now?
Do the words " "If someone decides to become a pilot, he can't be a coward." ring any bells? Who was the first officer on the flight when the pilot refused a direct order by Kaczynski to land the plane?

I repeat the question again.

Repeat it as many times as you like, the answer is still the same and you still won't like the answer. VIP passenger syndrome took that flight down.
JollyRomek 7 | 481
31 Mar 2015  #589
What happened to the last pilot to refuse a direct order by Kaczynski to land a plane? What is he flying now?

I honestly don't know. But, the pilot is in charge of the plane. Kaczynski or any commanding officer do not have the authority to make the pilots decisions.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
31 Mar 2015  #590
@Harry

You see this is where the obvious double standards kick in. You say this is what happened, even though you don't, and can't know this. You base your opinion on probability. Well Kaczynski told a pilot that he should land before, so it must have been his doing.

Many people, including myself, think that a lot of the suspicious events and actions surrounding the crash, before and after it, point to Russia having a big hand in the crash and it quite likely being deliberate. I however can't tell you that it was for sure, because there is no defining piece of proof that would prove that. Why do you and others like you think you know the cause of the crash, yet dismiss other people's theories, also based on certain facts, as jumping to conclusions?
Harry
31 Mar 2015  #591
I honestly don't know. But, the pilot is in charge of the plane. Kaczynski or any commanding officer do not have the authority to make the pilots decisions.

In August 2008, Kaczynski reportedly "shouted furiously" at a pilot who, for safety reasons, disobeyed an order to land his plane in Tbilisi during Georgia's war with Russia (Kaczynski was a great supporter of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili).
Kaczynski later tried to have the Polish air force pilot, Grzegorz Pietuczak, removed from his job for insubordination, but Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister intervened.

theweek/politics/15347/%E2%80%98vip-passenger-syndrome%E2%80%99-blame-polish-tragedy

The report suggested that Protasiuk had been influenced by an incident in 2008. He had been the co-pilot in the presidential plane when the captain had defied an order from Lech Kaczynski to make a risky landing in Tbilisi, Georgia. According to Polish reports of the incident, the president was furious and declared: "If someone decides to become a pilot, he can't be a coward." The captain in question never piloted the presidential flight again.

theguardian/world/2011/apr/08/poland-smolensk-air-crash-conspiracy
JollyRomek 7 | 481
31 Mar 2015  #592
Harry

So, I guess we are in agreement?
Harry
31 Mar 2015  #593
You base your opinion on probability.

How strange that you want to overlook the fact that the CVR has the navigator saying "He'll go crazy".

Many people, including myself, think that a lot of the suspicious events and actions surrounding the crash, before and after it, point to Russia having a big hand in the crash and it quite likely being deliberate.

Yawn. Russia wouldn't waste its time killing a president who was a few months away from suffering the humiliation of being the first president in the history of Poland to crash out in the first round of a presidential election.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
31 Mar 2015  #594
You have no idea how Russia think. You think that the murder of Nemtsov was a political decision, or perhaps he ****** somebody off to the point where they decided to kill him? Same with this situation. Kaczynski had been annoying Putin for a long time, until he had enough.
Lyzko 23 | 6,542
10 Apr 2015  #595
Merged: Juergen Roth - German journalist attempts to prove POLISH complicity in Smolensk tragedy 2010!

I was shocked to read in the Nowy Dziennik yesterday that a German journalist has claimed to have documentary proof that the plane crash over Smoleńsk was carried out by Poland??

Incredible, if true.A złoty for your thoughts:-)
Harry
10 Apr 2015  #596
Well, the surviving duck brother had far more reason to kill his brother than Russia did....
JollyRomek 7 | 481
10 Apr 2015  #597
I was shocked to read

Shocked by what? That a Polish pilot brought down the plane because someone told him to land although he should have refused? What is it that shocks or surprises you?
Crow 137 | 7,632
10 Apr 2015  #598
there is strong possibility that Lech Kaczyński was assassinated by high ranked circles within NATO and EU. Plan eventually was that their player Tusk replace Lech. Why? Lech wanted solved Polish-Russian antagonism. It was dangerous idea for ambitious magnates of NATO and EU. Plus, Lech was patriotic Polish president and wanted Poland closer to other Slavs.

It was coup d`etat in Poland?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
11 Apr 2015  #599
It was coup d`etat in Poland?

No, that's just a figment of your sick imagination. Isn't there a Serbian forum you could troll for a change?
Crow 137 | 7,632
11 Apr 2015  #600
So, Rogere5, in other words, you don`t think that NATO and EU magnates assassinated president Lech?

Well, who knows. i would leave it as open question. Thanks for upload of your thoughts, Rogere5


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