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Despicable Ukrainian lies


GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #1
No, this thread is not going to be about the lamentable inability of the Ukrainian government to apologise for the Volhyn Genocide. It is a separate topic that would require a separate thread, especially in the light of the total scandal connected with the recent 80th anniversary of the genocide. How many times will Poland allow the descendants of OUN-UPA genocidal animals to spit in our faces is indeed an interesting question.

But, shhhhh... hush, hush... let's not talk about it at this moment...

Ukrainian genocide

... this is about something else.

This is about the lies of a certain creature - Denys Shmyhal - who happens to be a prime minister of Ukraine and who said that "Poland intends to continue blocking the export of Ukrainian grain to the EU".

tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english/kyiv-condemns-unfriendly-polish-decision-to-extend-ukrainian-grain-ban-7249900

Now, considering the fact that Poland has NEVER been blocking the export of Ukrainian grain to the EU, such scandalous lies cannot remain without serious repercussions. Let's remind the lying Shmyhal some basic facts:

- the transit of Ukrainian grain through Poland to the EU continues uniterrupted as it has always been;
- in January 2023, Poland transported 114,000 tons of Ukrainian grain to the EU, in June it was already 260,000 tons - so, the transit of Ukrainian grain through Poland has more than doubled in the last six months.

So why is the Shmyhal lying? Another interesting question.

Not only is the aforementioned creature lying but also somehow forgets to mention Romania, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Hungary - four other countries who also, just like Poland, allow the transit of Ukrainian grain but don't agree to destroy their own farming by letting it flood their own markets. It is only Poland - the country that sent about 400 tanks (among tons of other stuff) to Ukraine and accepted 4 million Ukrainian refugees, giving them all social security benefits/health services that Polish citizens get - that gets criticised. Quite interesting.

Now, let's look at another lie by our good - by now - acquaintance Mr Shmyhal: he claims that Poland not opening Polish market to Ukrainian grain is a "move that will severely impact global food security". Quite the contrary, Mr Shmyhal, the grain that you are talking about is needed in hungry Africa not in Poland, isn't it? Poland has enough of our own grain. We bought the "our Ukrainian grain will be sent to poor hungry Africa" lie last year, and it ended up flooding the Polish market. Fool me once and all that.

Mr Zelenski - when he is not busy awarding the titles of Hero of Ukraine to OUN-UPA criminals - should find some time to discipline his prime minister, who seems to be dangerously talking out of his anal orifice recently. Quite dangerously.
Ironside 53 | 12,462
22 Jul 2023 #2
inability of the Ukrainian government to apologise for the Volhyn Genocide.

Why you even talk about it? What do you mean apologise? I just don't get that idea or need for it.

So why is the Shmyhal lying?

Is got paid by t hose who have a vasted interest in selling that stuff in Poland.
Also Agricultural produce is major income for Ukraine, hungry Africa is not that hungry, most of that food goes to China.
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #3
I just don't get that idea or need for it.

The older I get and more I read of your posts, Iron, the more I agree with you.

You are absolutely right -- f*ck their apologies. But we should be allowed to bury our dead and that's not negotiable. Unfortunately, our dear Ukrainian friends do not allow the exhumation of the victims so that we could at least give them proper burial.

I should have listened to you all those years, but I was young and naive and I wanted to be friends with everyone, hold hands and sing kumbaya. F*ck that. :-/

Is got paid by t hose who have a vasted interest in selling that stuff in Poland.

You mean he's corrupt? A corrupt Ukrainian prime minister??? Well, I never... So, that's why he's spreading all those outrageous lies? Hmm... one more reason for president Zelensky to do something about it, isn't it?
Feniks
22 Jul 2023 #4
Poland has NEVER been blocking the export of Ukrainian grain to the EU,

I don't know if I'm missing something here but my understanding of the situation is that Poland, along with Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovakia, closed its borders back in the spring to Ukrainian grain imports as there had been a glut of Ukrainian grain into all these countries. This meant that Polish farmers were having a problem selling their own grain.

In May, a deal was struck between the EU Commission and the five countries whereby the restrictions were dropped in return for more EU funding and assurances that the grain would only pass through their countries on route to other destinations.

These restrictions end on September 15th and the five countries want them extended.

politico.eu/article/blockaded-poland-hungary-cut-ukraine-export-route-west-europe-mateusz-morawiecki-istvan-nagy-agriculture/
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #5
along with Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovakia

That is correct. Mr Shmyhal, however, spreads lies about Poland only, and doesn't even mention the other four countries.

here had been a glut of Ukrainian grain into all these countries

Grain that was supposed to go to "hungry Africa", but it turned out that Ukrainian grain oligarchs decided to just sell it in Poland. Neither of the five countries has ever opposed the transit of the grain to other destinations (all those hungry people, all over the world, waiting for the grain - how could we oppose?).

the five countries want them extended

Exactly. We want the export of Ukrainian grain to the EU (and beyond) to continue through Polish territory, and not "continue blocking the export". Considering that the amount of grain exported by Ukraine through Poland has more than doubled in recent months it is indeed impudent to lie about Poland continuing to block the exports.

Mr Shmyhal lies that Poland continues blocking the export of Ukrainian grain whilst - at the very same time when his words are flowing through his lying mouth - trains full of Ukrainian grain keep rolling through Poland.
Ironside 53 | 12,462
22 Jul 2023 #6
Poland should close our border crossings for ukrainian trucks/

do not allow the exhumation of the victims

Maybe some glitch in the system that will stop flow of fuel from Poland to Ukrainie will make them rethink it?
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #7
Maybe some glitch in the system that will stop flow of fuel from Poland to Ukrainie

Yes, I think a couple of glitches like that would make them rethink their attitude. How right was Jaroslav Hašek when, through the mouth of good soldier Švejk, he said: "bezczelne są te kurwy i zuchwałe".
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #8
- the transit of Ukrainian grain through Poland to the EU continues uniterrupted as it has always been

That is an interesting thread with much needed info, Torqi!

This whole grain business is very confusing here, I can tell you.....nobody in Germany wants to see starving Ukrainians! And yes, because of lacking info Poland doesn't look good in this (even if nobody in the german media, as far as I know is blaming Poland...I guess most german Journos are also confused about that).
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #9
That is an interesting thread with much needed info, Torqi!

Just telling it like it is, BB.

It's about money. Big money. Ukraine is not one bit less corrupt than Russia and their oligarchs are not one bit less greedy than their Russian counterparts. They don't give a flying f*ck about "starving Africa", "food shortage", "humanitarian crisis" or whatnot. All they care about is their profits and it's much cheaper to just sell the grain across the border in Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Hungary without the costly transport. The fact that Central European farmers will go bankrupt in the process is another thing Ukrainians don't give a toss about.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #10
....is there a mood-change in Poland? In the polish gov? Will Poland continue to support Ukraine in this war?

That could be an explanation for the tank-mystery.....
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #11
A mood change? Not yet. Poland is still willing to support Ukraine. Maybe not so enthusiastically, and maybe not to such a crazy extent as before, but still.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #12
.....and that at a moment when "latecomer" Germany, long condemned for its foot-dragging, decided to put all of its weight behind Ukraine! 🙄
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #13
Well, we gave them 2% of our GDP worth of help (more than any country in the world), tons of military equipment, trains full of ammunition and fuel, took in their refugees - not to some bloody refugee camps but straight to our homes - gave Ukrainians (who are not even EU members) full social benefits, kindergeld, health services etc., just as if they were Poles, no difference, and they won't even let us bury our dead. Makes you think, doesn't it?

Those lies that their prime minister spreads about Poland are just a lovely icing on the cake.
Feniks
22 Jul 2023 #14
Mr Shmyhal lies that Poland continues blocking the export of Ukrainian grain

Now that Russia has reneged on the grain deal, It's almost as if he is trying to make a comparison between Russian behaviour and that of Poland, when Poland has been one of Ukraine's most supportive allies.

I can't understand why he wants to through a spanner in the works to be honest. There are no gains to be made from biting the hand that feeds.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #15
Makes you think, doesn't it?

Definitely!

It's the timing! This war could have been a great reason for reconciliation between our both peoples....together fighting a common enemy....you know....

But it seems now it could become rather again a source for disagreements and strife and hostility....it's mindboggling....sometimes it seems Poles and Germans are just like cats and dogs....they just rub each other the wrong way, no matter the reason....it's useless!
Bobko 25 | 1,961
22 Jul 2023 #16
Why... what a lovely discussion is happening here! If it's alright, I would like to add some updates re: further developments.

Ukraine's Vice-Premier for European and Euro-Atlantic Integration (yes, a real title), Olga Stefanishina, addressed the issue at a press conference today.

Some things she said:

"Polish officials say that European borders will also be closed to Ukrainian grain. Democracy is when the government acts as an executive branch, and not as an election headquarters."

Ouch!

She also added this gem:

Stefanyshina called on European partners to work together to ensure global food security and Ukraine's "economic survival", which means unimpeded Ukrainian exports to the EU.

"There should also be a compensation mechanism for Ukrainian farmers who continue to work in the fields despite the risk to their lives," she added.


Silly Kania... haha! Worried about protecting Polish farmers, when he should be worried about compensating Ukrainian farmers. By the way, many of the comments from Ukrainians under articles on this subject run along the lines of:

"If Polish farmers need protection from Ukrainian farmers that plow mined fields, maybe something is wrong with Polish farmers."

Source: pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2023/07/20/7412156/
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #17
reconciliation between our both peoples

Peoples are OK. Even my generation (let's call it the middle generation, shall we? ;)) doesn't have much problems with Germans as such. It's the different visions of Poland and Germany/EU of what the future of Europe should look like. We are more for tradition, independence, co-operation of free countries, protecting our soil and heritage, limiting immigration etc., Germany/EU are more about melting everything in Europe into a huge, gay, multi-kulti, neo-marxist USSR-bis. Totally different visions.

If the EU shifts more to the right and Poland more to the left, maybe we will meet again.

@Bobi

Yes, I know all that, and what comes to my mind again are the legendary words of Jaroslav Hašek.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #18
let's call it the middle generation, shall we?

Of course!!!! :)

It's the different visions of Poland and Germany/EU of what the future of Europe should look like. We are more for tradition, independence, co-operation of free countries, protecting our soil and heritage, limiting immigration

....an important point! And I ask you just to have some more patience with Germany a bit longer....more and more Germans are against the current quite leftist stronghold here too and you will see proof of it in every actual and upcoming election.

Most Germans are socially quite more conservative as our gov lets you think and especially the whole immigration desaster is a tipping point for the mood in Germany!

And yes...since more and more former rather left leaning countries (Sweden!!!) are moving to the right the EU will in the end also move to the right, so will Germany...

As nice as this looks the problem I see will be with the future AfD, the most open proponent of this move to the right. As right/conservative also means nationalist it could very well be that our AfD will butt heads with polish nationalists as from PiS even more than with the current quite leftist german gov....that promises not exactly easier times for our both peoples!
Korvinus 2 | 448
22 Jul 2023 #19
"If Polish farmers need protection from Ukrainian farmers that plow mined fields, maybe something is wrong with Polish farmers."

Ukrainian farmers earn much less than Polish ones and use pesticides that aren't allowed in the EU due to sanitary reasons.

That's the whole mystery of their cost competitveness.
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #20
he is trying to make a comparison between Russian behaviour and that of Poland

Very good point, Feniks! That's exactly what he's doing. Scandalous.

I ask you just to have some patient with Germany a bit longer..

You have all my patience, BB. For the patience of Mr Kaczyński, however, I cannot vouch. :-/

AfD will butt heads with polish nationalists

Patriots will always find common tongue - as our personal example clearly shows. :) With those lefties, on the other hand, you just cannot reason.

*keeps fingers crossed for the European move to the right*
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #21
....our AfD is very pro-Russia.....what then??? Alot rightist parties in Europe are....okay, that would be the stuff for a totally wholly different thread, so stopping here!

(And could someone shoot my typos?)
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #22
our AfD is very pro-Russia

Was it the AfD that built NS and NS2? Was it the AfD that ignored Polish warnings for all those years?

Don't panic, BB. If this AfD of yours are true German patriots, then we will find common interest and a way of agreement with them. Especially that in a couple of years we will have the strongest army in Europe, so that will help Germany and Poland to talk on a more equal, partnership terms.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
22 Jul 2023 #23
Don't panic, BB.

Phew....you are right of course....and who knows, the AfD will develop in time and with responsibilities and become more european! :)

*goes making dinner*
amiga500 4 | 1,516
22 Jul 2023 #24
I see a it's a certain PSL voters time of month, on the rag and bitc**ng and moaning. Number 1 who cares what the PM said, he has no power. No 2 at the 80th anniversery of Volyhn genocide there was Zelensky and highest representatives of Ukranian church, and during the ceremony the polish cardinal called it a genocide and they accepted the wording, so it is progress and exhumation and burials will be next step. As for apology, is meaningless unless covered with other actions such as the above and also changes in what they teach the next generation of ukranian school kids.

Anyway I think we should be bigger party and show regret/apologize for betrayal of ukranian state by signing peace treaty with bolsheviks, and also cultural repression of ukranian religion and language afterwards, it is small apology and would make their big apology for GENOCIDE easier.
Ironside 53 | 12,462
22 Jul 2023 #25
Anyway I think

I think you should change your nick to doormat. Suit you better,
amiga500 4 | 1,516
22 Jul 2023 #26
one link that proves your ridiculous claim that they acknowledge the Volhyn atrocities to be a genocide.

I said that during the church ceremony it was stated that it was a genocide, and obv with these diplomatic events the ukranians would have had knowledge of what was going to be said, it is only first step.

Ukraine has been an independent state for over 30 years, so WHEN will this next step be

And this is the first time in 30 years that relationships have been good enough to have hope that there will be a next step. Yes it might take another 10 years.

Don't you think it's a bit insensitive to demand apology NOW for the past when they are being murdered by our common enemy russia? Yes after the war when we hold all the cards in their admission to the EU is appropriate.
Ironside 53 | 12,462
22 Jul 2023 #27
their big apology

They can shove it.
I don't need it, IF they choose Bandera as their hero, any apology is meaningless and would sound like a mockery.

ukranian state by signing peace treaty with bolsheviks

Are you ukrainian by any chance? Give our land back first!

highest representatives of Ukranian church

There is no Ukrianian Church, a one of the Ukrianian churches, smallest one.

As for the next step of something that should be given, those are empty promises, for some reason they don't want to let those works be carried out.
OP GefreiterKania 36 | 1,412
22 Jul 2023 #28
"innocent victims of Volhyn"

Ukrainian ambassador in Poland - Wasyl Zwarycz - was even more impudent when on the anniversary of the genocide he said that he commemorates... wait for it... "all the II Rzeczpospolita citizens murdered during WW2 on the territories occupied by the III Reich".

to have hope that there will be a next step

And while you have hope, for another 30 years, the remaining survivors of Volhyn Genocide or even their children will not live to see their beloved ones properly buried.

Please, answer me the question I asked you in my previous post: how a civilised country can refuse the burial of the dead?.

to demand apology NOW

I don't give a f*ck about their apology, as I said before. I want the bestially murdered civilians to be finally properly buried. That's all.
amiga500 4 | 1,516
22 Jul 2023 #29
Give our land back first!

What land? they claim it was originally their land that poland conquered in the 14th century! You know, that's why the ukris lived there..

how a civilised country can refuse the burial of the dead?.

Who claimed Ukraine was civilised? As I said, we hold all the cards after the war, and no burials and truth telling and reconciliation = No EU membership. It's a pretty strong hand and the Ukris will have no choice but to fold. Also changes to education curriculum showing crimes and fascist nature of UON-B
Ironside 53 | 12,462
22 Jul 2023 #30
they claim

Sure, more lies.
There were no ukrainians at the time, anywhere.

showing crimes and fascist nature of UON-B

look, they could drop it right away all that Bandera issue, it was no more but a terrorist organization of some small fraction of ukrainians with Polish citizenship.

To pull it out of the bin of history to put on standard of a new country whitch vast majority of its population had nothing to do with it, those people are sick or dumb. \

Nothing simpler that roll it back into the bin. Just like that.


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