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Poland's birthrate on the decline


pawian 191 | 19,223
26 Jun 2022 #151
defend

Sorry, but I primarily defend women`s rights.

What do you mean independent choice

It is quite simple - each woman should decide if she wants to have the baby or not. And nobody should meddle into her choices. Isn`t it obvious?

Tell us now what you think about 230.000 males in Poland who shun paying alimony for their kids.

I would like you to elaborate

It is your old Iron`s tactics to twist and manipulate the debate until it turns into complete chaos. Stop this infantile sillinness - I told you ,many times and many years ago.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,658
26 Jun 2022 #152
Sorry, but I primarily defend women`s rights.

You are sexist. That is strange. I think you are an empty vessel that is going from slogan to slogan, filling gasping holes in your 'argument' with BS and clowing. Ah and focusing on your opponet.

Isn`t it obvious?

No, independent choice suggest that decision take place in a vacum. You don't adress the question you avoid it trying to dazzle people with BS. A woman can't and shouldn't have a choice in that matter:

she is not only one that 'made' the child
the child is a human being not her limb or a paraside.

About those 230.000 males - I don't think about them, I let strange confused people like you think about them all the time.
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #153
decision take place in a vacum

This is some pseudo philosphy which means nothing, Darling, vacuum is in outer space while we are living on Earth, let me remind you. :):)

shouldn't have a choice in that matter:

Fine. Keep your opinion while I keep mine.

About those 230.000 males - I don't think about them,

We appreciate your sincerity which nicely corroborates the need to defend women`s right to free choice.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,658
27 Jun 2022 #154
This is some pseudo philosphy which means nothing

It is neither philosphy, nor pseudo and it has meaning.

Fine. Keep your opinion while I keep mine.

It is not fine. You should put here an agrument. I don't need your permision to have an opinion and you don't need mine to keep yours. You admit here you don't have an argument to support your view on the issue or you don't want to share it with us.

the need to defend women`s

Are women children? are women minority? are women not fully human or adults that there is need to defend them according to you?
There is no need to defend them unless you think that are not men equals. Is that is it pawian? You think that women are not men equals?

By the way have they elected you or hired you to defend them or their 'rights'? If not you are sexist. Your assumption that ALL women have the same view on the issue is not only untrue but also patronising.
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #155
women are not men equals?

Too many fake macho types think so. They are everywhere - in real life, in the government, in this forum. That is why we need males who support women to counterweigh the fake machos influence.

put here an agrument

The argument is always the same: in too many cases a pregnant woman is left on her own with the problem of bearing and raising the child. 230.000 male alimony debtors who you so easily absolve from paying for their kids is a perfect example.

When so many male partners give up sharing the responsibility, it is obvious a woman must have an ultimate choice.

ALL women have the same view on the issue

Of course they don`t have the same view. The next elections will reveal their way of thinking. Be patient and stay tuned.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,658
27 Jun 2022 #156
That is why we need males who support women

I don't think you support women, you don't defend them either. You simply share that view with some males and females that there should be abortions aviable. Abortions are not good for women health and it doesn't help them at all.

Also stop with that sexist agrument dividing males and females in this way, both sexes are people and both have those people who support abortion and those who do not.

230.000 male alimony debtors who you so easily absolve

Me? I don't absolve anyone, it is you with your view on abortion that want to absolve them easily. Your solution - women can abort those children and 230 000 males don't need to pay alimony, and are free to make more babies and act like trash with impunity.

Is that your real agenda?
By the way that is a lame argument if we take it at its face value. Wrong behavior get absolved by a legally accepted murder, there are no consequneces for males but there are consequneces for females - health realted both physical and mental.
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #157
dividing males and females in this way

But it is you who is dividing and trying to enforce sth on people. Didn`t you say: A woman can't and shouldn't have a choice in that matter:

What do you consider women as? Male`s slaves? Forget it. Those times are long gone.

I don't absolve anyone,

Really? But you said I don't think about them which means you don`t care at all that 230.000 males shun paying alimony for their kids and the rightist rulers can`t or don`t want to do anything about it.

are not good for women health

Of course, it is an extremely drastic measure and women should be aware of it.

Still, the choice has to be theirs.
Lenka 3 | 2,780
27 Jun 2022 #158
Abortions are not good for women health

It can be healthier than pregnancy and birth. Depending on a case of course.

it doesn't help them at all.

I think they are better judges than you.
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #159
I think they are better judges than you.

Exactly. It is funny when a fake macho wants to decide what is good or bad for women.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,658
27 Jun 2022 #160
But it is you who is dividing and trying to enforce sth on people.

Dividing what? There is consensus that people can't just kill other people because it is a bad idea and all. You lot want to make an exception for unborn children basing it on some lame, illigical and stupid argument.

I say fine if it ok to kill children, it should be ok to kill people in general - at least rules would be consistent. Which in trun you lot somehow don't like. Why don't you stop trying to enforce some stupid sh't then? Your stupidity or your rotten nature is a divisive factor here.

What do you consider women as?

I consider them to be a responsible adults that have at their disposal anti-conception, and many other options including not having an unprotected, risky sex with strangers.

You on the other hand do not think they are your equals and you act on behave of the trashy men who want to have a lot of sex with a lot of women without having to worry about alimony. It has been established already. Your lies won't take you out of the hole you digged yourslef.

Nor for nothing you support and defend 'dupiarz' Trzaskowski.

Hey are you talking about yourself you fake macho, dupiarz pawian?

It can

Look as a general rule of the thumb you need to assume you are not talking to a primary school kid.
In that case you should assume that I'm aware that every rule has an/its exception.
Maybe you don't understand that exceptions do not nullfy rules.
In which case your remark is either redundand, stupid or patronasing.

I think they are better judges than you.

You can think what you like. It doesn't change reality. Ever heard "no one should be a judge in his/her own cause".
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #161
kill other people

That is your private theory which you are trying to force upon women. However, not all women accept it as theirs. Some do, others don`t. That is why they need to have a free choice. You can apply your forcible approach to yourself and your family if they agree, I don`t care, but leave other people alone. It`s none of your business what they do in their lives.

dupiarz pawian

hahaha You are really flying off the handle in this discussion. :):):) Amasing.

risky sex with strangers.

BS. That is the vast minority of cases where women need abortion. Normal is a situation when a couple go out together for a longer time and the woman believes it is steady. When the male hears about pregnancy which he caused, he often backs off, leaving the partner alone with the problem.
OP johnny reb 36 | 7,483
27 Jun 2022 #162
I say fine if it ok to kill children, it should be ok to kill people in general -

Children should be as safe in their mothers womb as they are in the classroom. Simple

Why don't you stop trying to enforce some stupid sh't then?

Because that is what this forum is all about, the indoctrination of Marxism by the Progressive Liberal scum.
jon357 71 | 20,403
27 Jun 2022 #163
I am against abortion and at the same time for independent choice of each woman

That's pretty well my feeling too.

Abortion is irrelevant to Poland's birth rate though, since they're already hard to legally get. When they were easily available, BTW, Poland had a larger birth rate.
OP johnny reb 36 | 7,483
27 Jun 2022 #164
Abortion is irrelevant to Poland's birth rate though, since they're already hard to legally get.

I concur.
However when you have the Progressive Liberal Trolls here trying to indoctrinate this forum that abortion is not murder to promote their agenda with any opportunity that they get, do you expect any different.

Thanks for bring that up joun. :-)
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #165
Abortion is irrelevant to Poland's birth rate though

OK, so we can stop discussing it here as pointless.

Good.

Let`s focus on those irresponsible fake macho patriarchal supremacist males who refuse to share home duties. They really believe it is enough when they go to work and bring the bread home. So what? Their female partners also do it.

We need to run educational campaigns, starting already in kindergarten, to teach boys to help at home.



pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #166
teach boys to help at home.

Also, it is a good idea to encourage boys to play with dolls more. That will develop paternal instincts in them.



OP johnny reb 36 | 7,483
27 Jun 2022 #167
Men who change diapers change the world.
Atch 17 | 4,046
27 Jun 2022 #168
teach boys to help at home.

They're never too young to start learning.





Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,658
27 Jun 2022 #169
However, not all women accept it as theirs.

Not all people accept unifrsal norma of a society or a civlization and we have name for them - criminals.
You mussing have nothing to do with arguments you just go agian and again with the same lame trope.
Killing people is not someone personal business.

You are really flying off the handle in this discussion.

Really? I have thought you would be glad after all it is nickname of your great political leader. lol!

Normal is a situation when a couple go out together for a longer time and the woman believes it is steady.

Oh and she goes let have kids and her patner says fine let go for it and then change his mind and leaves. You are watching too many sad movies.
pawian 191 | 19,223
27 Jun 2022 #170
go agian and again with the same lame trope.

While you dont`t? :):):) Stop being delusional. :):):)

she goes let have kids and her patner says fine

Now this is a cheap B class movie scenario. Your invention.
jon357 71 | 20,403
27 Jun 2022 #171
who refuse to share home duties.

Basically insecure or just useless lumps. Or both

then change his mind and leaves.

Enough sadly do just that. One reason that child maintainance laws in Poland are so strict

abortion is not murder

Of course it isn't.

And it's irrelevant to Poland's birth rate
OP johnny reb 36 | 7,483
27 Jun 2022 #172
@jon357
What a slippery troll you are

abortion is not murder

Actually that partial quote you posted above, by me joun, fully reads:
the Progressive Liberal Trolls here trying to indoctrinate this forum that abortion is not murder to promote their agenda
https://polishforums.com/life/poland-birthrate-decline-87329/6/#msg1859437

Of course it isn't.

Of course it is
Homicide refers to all criminal offenses involving a person's death and therefore encompasses both murder and manslaughter.
Murder is the most serious type of homicide because it involves intentional killing.
(Abortion)

Poland must have been way different when we grew up.
As a young boy I learned how to cook and now cook much better than most women, how to do the laundry, how to change a babies diaper, how to babysit, how to clean the bathroom, and balance a checkbook all by the time I was ten years old to help Mom out around the house.

When I went away to college NONE of my other roommates knew how to do any of that.
So don't just blame it on the Polish lumps for a low birthrate in Poland, how about the selfish to be mothers that want to be waited on and treated like her daddy treated her in which having a child would cramp that lifestyle like to no end.
jon357 71 | 20,403
27 Jun 2022 #173
You'd have the defence of truth in that situation.

And also, he's blaming women for the behaviour of men. He seems to be creating a straw man (or straw woman) that just doesn't fit reality,

An understanding of the reality of people's lives in Poland and that most women have to work full time as well as bring up a family and run a home would help.

And he never went "to college" unless he means the kind that has bars on the windows.
OP johnny reb 36 | 7,483
27 Jun 2022 #174
You'd have the defence of truth in that situation.

No joun, the ball is in your court but you have seemed to have drop it with your spitting and sputtering.

An understanding the reality of people's lives in Poland and that most women have to work full time as well as bring up a family

Just like most countries of the world joun
You need to get out more.
Now stop trolling, please.
jon357 71 | 20,403
28 Jun 2022 #175
Some interesting figures.

Poland's population is expected to fall to around 23 million by the end of the century.

That's not a bad thing.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,532
28 Jun 2022 #176
That's not a bad thing

Sorry Jon, but I don't see the positives, only negatives.
Please explain why you think that.
Bobko 11 | 982
28 Jun 2022 #177
@Miloslaw

Better for the climate, and for the critters which we are driving extinct. The forests will come back, and the bison will roam.
jon357 71 | 20,403
29 Jun 2022 #178
@Miloslaw
A huge population isn't a good thing. 27 million is a decent size especially given the resources to be shared around.

A smaller population but a wealthier one.

Since 2004 people have found that despite a growing economy they've had to go elsewhere.

There are countries in the world with exploding populations. I use the world exploding carefully since they are a ticking time bomb.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
29 Jun 2022 #179
countries in the world with exploding populations

dysfunctional crapholes for the most part... the problem is when they leave their dysfunctional crapholes they have no skills or personal abilities that would allow them to contribute elsewhere so they become welfare pets of the telescopically philanthropic
jon357 71 | 20,403
29 Jun 2022 #180
dysfunctional crapholes

Places with extreme poverty and rampant inequality.

no skills or personal abilities

Education, education, education.

welfare pets

Less and less chance of that.

We know you hate the global South, however snark and bile solve no problems.

Education and skills training do That and more equitable division of resources contraception and abortion.


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