those in relatively low paid jobs as well (e.g. teachers)
Teachers in Poland are not well paid but teachers in many other countries are.
what world do you live in, Paulina?
What world do you live in? Women still do the lion's share of the work in taking care of children. Studies/research carried out very recently in Poland showed that the attitudes regarding sharing duties professed by Polish men are not borne out by the reality. Women do at least twice as much as men.
their "career" in early school teaching
You really are an ignorant lump. I trained to teach children from ages 3 to 12 and a well trained teacher can have a profound influence on the development of a child - and not just academically.
Geez, it was just an example (maybe not the best one, I admit) - all right, all right, early education teachers and galactically important! But there is also no denying that overwhelming majority of women are doing jobs that they would be very much inclined to give up if: a) they could afford to b) the entire popular culture wasn't telling them that motherhood is less important than "career" (the same applies to men).
You really are an ignorant lump.
Thank you. One does one's best to make oneself immune to modern "wisdom and knowledge". :)
third, fourth, fifth kid will statistically have lower outcomes, if other factors are kept static.
But, is that true? In most true market economies, education is accessible to any who wish to avail themselves of it by way of public subsidy or taking on debt.
Granted, cost of an education (not to mention extra-curricular and other things ) has increased dramatically and has an economic impact (on the student who assumes the debt ), but that is independent of family size.
I wonder if the real cause for a decline in births in the developed world is radical materialism and pursuit of luxury. In other words, a sort of radical self-absorption.
these things are hard to discount.
And, most importantly, those things typically mean economic growth.
rather be a Japan, than a Nigeria or Brazil. Not so sure if I would prefer to be Japan over India or China, however.
Yep!
India is one of those countries that shows just how important those other factors are, ie political stability and governmental policies. They have immense potential that has to be realized. It's going to be interesting to see how their renaissance of hindu nationalism plays out for them economically as well as geopolitically.
How do you view the man/ woman relationship? Do you see it as competitive or complementary or something else?
Do you think femininity and masculinity have distinct characteristics? Do these characteristics complement one another? Do these characteristics serve particular roles?
the lion's share of the work in taking care of children.
If you think in those terms there is something wrong with you already, how taking care of your children is a work? Women take care of children more bacouse that make sense and works for most people not becasue there is something not fair or fishy about it.
ages 3 to 12 and a well trained teacher can have a profound influence
Can, If it is a well trained, dedicated teacher and is passionate about his/her job. In reallity there few teacher like that and most just do as little as possible. Aslo if their family background is not that great not even a great teacher can alleviate it.
I see any relationship as ideally complementary. If it's competitive there is not much sense in it.
Do you think femininity and masculinity have distinct characteristics?
Hmm, I would say there are certain traits that go across the board and that are usually more pronounced in one of the sexes. I'm not sure however how much is nature and how much is nurture
2 < 2.1 (which is necessary for natural replacement of population).
You would think, from all of Kania's lectures about making your contribution to the motherland, that he is a father of 5-6 kids. Truth is, however, that's he's 5% below the level of what is minimally necessary.
Really? Other posters, especially women, also point to the issue I mentioned. E.g, Women do at least twice as much as men.
Women have realised at last they had been exploited by males for too long. You want to have kids, my dear fake macho?- share the responsibilities. Simple.
@Lenka 'Usually ' being the key word. Example, women are normally more emotional. There are exceptions. Men are normally stronger, again, there are exceptions. There will be exceptions to almost everything, but outside of the generalality. That's why they're called exceptions.
I see what you're getting at - as a father of two I am still below the replacement birthrate of 2.1. True. I am, however, way beyond Poland's average of 1.42. Also, don't put a cross on me yet, I can still have more children - remember that Janusz Korwin-Mikke had a child when he was 71, so I still have 30 years or so and I am way more handsome and charming than he is, so who knows? :)
You would think, from all of Kania's lectures (...) that he is a father of 5-6 kids. (...) Does a dog count
Et tu, Brute?*slowly reaches behind him to take out the dagger sticking out of his back*
@johnny reb Actually, Jim, when it comes down to it, a majority worldwide "run on emotions". Men and women. It is, of course, idiotic, but that is exactly how humans are made. To run in base emotions, no matter the sex. Although, you're right if you mean more women (there are exceptions, of course.)
Hahaha. Apologies, could not resist after you rejected my genius plan of poking holes in condoms.
You know you cannot make 0.1 of a baby, so you will have to make a whole one? Then to compensate for Paulina and Lenka you will have to add 4.2 more, but since we know children are not divisible in tenths that means 5.0 more. Here we finally begin to see the full picture - you must make 8 children.
Well, we must remember Jon that there is very little respect for teachers in Poland. I'm lucky that I trained and worked in Ireland where there is historically great respect for the teaching profession and a track record of hugely dedicated teachers.
You keep BANGING ON about 'sharing the responsibility'. WHY ? Are you guilty of not doing it ? I know as a kid I heard, "children should be seen but not heard" about a thousand times from my Polish parents. It may be a cultural thing and all about how you have been brought up. Alcoholism seems to be the main factor in most spouse and child abuse cases. We're not saying that you neglect your parental duties but are you an alcoholic by any chance P ?
Yes, it is. A woman in a Western "democracy" can file for divorce if she doesn't like her "partner". Their problem is that women are illogical, stubborn, and easily addict to everything - from booze and cigarettes to their abusers. That last one goes under "...but I love him..." which means: He brings money.
Yes, because I consider it the most important factor. :):) Simple, isn`t it??? :):):)
Good for you and so do all the fathers I know. And who besides you and your sister, the man hater, say that men don't do their fair share ? You paint your bias picture with a very broad fem brush by keeping banging on about something that is not necessarily true. Simple :-) Repeating it endlessly will not change that fact, Hairy.
Most women can easily support themselves without their good for nothing
Women who abstain from having kids. They are voting with their feet so energetically that even you have noticed it and started this thread. :):):) Simple, isn`t it????
welfare
It seems you don`t know that women also have their own jobs. Have you lived in the Chicago jungle for the last 50 years? Are you an urban bushman? :):)
No, darling, they have been dominated, exploited and abused for millenia by scoundrel males . Now it is time they can regain their rights. It has already happened in the USA and is going to take place in Poland too. You have lost, fake macho pretender. hahahaha
You do it on their behalf.
Darling, johhny started a thread and I replied, stating my point of view. Simple. :):)
It has already happened in the USA and is going to take place in Poland too.
So you are saying that Poland is still uncivilized when it comes to human ethics ? Why do you think that it is a norm in Poland to have spouse abuse ?
Education starts at home and in church. Here in the USA the abused women took it into their own hands. They first raised money from selling used cloths that were donated to their organization called the Womans Resource Centers. They eventually bought facilities (safe house) for battered and abused women from donations. From there they hired some damn good man hating attorneys to prosecuted " scoundrel males" at no expense to the victims. These scum males end up paying for all attorney fees, court costs, paying child support and if they missed it went directly to jail, paid the rent for his family without being able to live there, and if there was physical violence he could plan on at least 90 days in jail and if there was drugs or alcohol involve there would be an additional 90 days tacked on that.
And I am not kidding when I say this, "I stay as far away from those women as I can because they can get very creative" !
And who do you think the court is going to believe, a crying emotional female or a male with the look of a deer in the headlights ?
So it sounds to me like it is up to the women in Poland to get organized and hire a couple of Misandrist. like you and Paulina to organize and run it.
