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Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun?

mafketis 24 | 8,877
17 May 2018 #811
Fair enoughski. What do you believe?

Getting back here late (busy week) but to answer your question.... I'm incapable of religious faith so I'm not sure if 'believe' is the right word, but according to my experience and powers of observation

evolution (and the selection pressure of majority values) the former is about part of what makes different human groups different (on average)

different environments reward different behaviors (places with cold winters favored those who could think ahead, while physical robustness wasn't much of an advantage) places with lots of endemic disease favor those who display robust vigor (and planning ahead isn't rewarded or often possible at all).

the latter isn't about reproduction but about what types of behavior are rewarded or punished in different socieites. Being a free thinker in a conformist society wont' get you anywhere while being a conformist in a society that values innovation is also a dead end.

It's not a contradiction for me to say that all human beings deserve dignity and respect and to point out that putting people from very different physical and social environments in the same place (with no new ethos to assimilate to) is.... not a good idea.

genetic research is showing that groups of people (on average) differ far more biologically than is comfortable for the old Disney exhibit "It's a small world" and the differences are baked in and not amenable to well-intentioned government interventions....
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,049
18 May 2018 #812
And another mass shooting in Hamburgerica! Natural selection at work. BRAVO! Here hoping for many casualities.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
18 May 2018 #813
Yet it won't change the second amendment... the majority of Americans are not interested in banning guns. The Chinese gave theirs up, the russians gave theirs up and as soon as they did they were slaughtered without any way of defending themselves

Yet one of the worst mass shootings just took place in Australia further illustrating banning guns will never stop mass shootings let alone murders

So much for liberals praising Australia's success...

If you want to read **** poor excuses, see below:
jon357 66 | 16,162
18 May 2018 #814
the majority of Americans are not interested in banning guns

Just as the majority of Poles are not interested in legalising them.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
18 May 2018 #815
That's because Polish society is far different and there is little need to have a gun for self defense. Nonetheless, the support for guns is increasing in poland as are the amount of applications every year. Now if a bunch of turd worlders came in and started raping and pillaging, I bet support far more poles would want guns for self defense.

Americans dont tell Europeans what to do in their country and vice versa.
jon357 66 | 16,162
18 May 2018 #816
In short, people don't want them, despite your silly whining about 'turd worlders'.

Americans dont tell Europeans what to do in their country

Some of the crap posted in this thread shows otherwise.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
18 May 2018 #817
No they don't because at the moment they don't have a need for them. And the laws are pretty similsr to that in the US. The majority of people against loosing of gun laws could quickly change and indeed more people are filling out apps for gun ownership. In France and Germany women are taking defense courses and shop keeps say they cant keep up with demand for self defense items like mace, batons, bobby guns, etc

BBC video showing how people are arming themselves esp women to protect them against rapefugee. These shoppers would rather have a gun as it's far more effective against rapefugees but at least they have this.
jon357 66 | 16,162
18 May 2018 #818
don't have a need for them

Or a desire for them.

The rest of your post is bullsh1t.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
18 May 2018 #819
Riiight so that bbc video is imaginary.... Women in germany aren't arming themselves with whatever they can so they aren't culturally enriched by a group of horny young migrants... That bbc video is entirely staged right down to the shop keep and his inventory...

'The shopkeeper says that the sexual assaults by migrants changed everything's - bbc reporter in that video

But suuuure keep your rose glasses on and call the bbc video bullsh1t... nothing to worry about theres no rape crisis in germaby, sweden, France etc...

You're starting to sound like a far left version of Alex jones
Why do migrants cry during sex????

Pepper spray...

Another one:

Polish minister, Angela Merkel, we have a big problem! There's millions of migrants arriving at our borders! What do we do?

Merkel: well if they're Syrians you have to let them in.

Polish minister: no theyre germans, they want out!
Ironside 50 | 10,810
18 May 2018 #820
Or a desire for them.

oh but they do, they just don't want their neighbor to have a gun, so not having a gun is the price they're willing to pay for keeping their neighbor unarmed. Talking about those who agree with you. Plenty of those who disagree with you.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
19 May 2018 #821
@cms neuf

Murder rates are the highest in the Latino sh--- like El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala. Their gun ownership is very low. It's the people. In the lilly white Vermont and New Hampshire, the murder rates are actually lower than in the gun-free France.
Joker 2 | 1,266
19 May 2018 #822
Their gun ownership is very low. It's the people.

This is why Londionstan has become the stabbing capitol of Europe. Its the people that live there acting like savages, just as well they aren't allowed to own firearms because if they cant be trusted with knives, can you imagine them with guns?

The stabbings have become so frequent over there, they are talking about knife bans now!

What little freedoms Europe has left, they are slowly losing thru PC invasion and they are very violent ppl as well.
cms neuf - | 1,579
19 May 2018 #823
You compare yourselves to Guatemala and El Salvador ? (both countries whete US policy has had devastating effects on society by the way) ?

Compare Vermont to the richest parts of France - I dunno sonewhere like Annecy or Aix. It will have a much higher murder rate.
Chemikiem 7 | 2,473
19 May 2018 #824
can you imagine them with guns?

You are still talking a small percentage of people in the overall scheme of things, but yes, if the laws changed in the UK and guns were freely available there would be a huge increase in the murder rate. The UK would have the same problems the US has now given time. Why do you think people here don't want guns? We don't want the same problems the US has with them . 22 school shootings so far this year.

they just don't want their neighbor to have a gun,

How can you know this? Iron, there is no need for people to own guns in Poland for self defence because the crime rate is so low.

so that bbc video is imaginary...

No, but it is almost 2.5 years out of date, and therefore is not going to accurately portray the picture today. You have a habit of showing video clips which were filmed soon after dramatic or shocking events in order to push your very obvious agenda.
Ironside 50 | 10,810
19 May 2018 #825
there is no need for people to own guns in Poland for self defence because the crime rate is so low.

Those are only statics. I'm sure a victim of a crime doesn't derive a comfort from that fact.
Chemikiem 7 | 2,473
20 May 2018 #826
Those are only statics.

Which prove that Poland has one of the lowest crime rates in the EU and has no need for a change to gun laws.
Sadly there will always be victims of crime, I've been one a couple of times, but most people don't immediately think about trying to arm themselves with a gun. Me included.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
20 May 2018 #827
victim of a crime doesn't derive a comfort from that fact.

Honestly crime is amazingly low here, as for violent crime the perpetrator is usually known to the victim, feud or family argument etc.

Never felt the need for a gun here, but other parts of the world that's a different story.

there is petty theft but no reason to shoot at someone, and if you feel the need pepper spray and tasers are freely available here, spray usually used for protection from stray dogs.
TheWizard - | 236
20 May 2018 #828
And everybody that has actually been to Poland knows that.

Australia is considered a safe country. It had a murder rate at least 30% greater than Poland last time i checked. So there is little point comparing other crazy countries as they are all going to be higher.
Ironside 50 | 10,810
20 May 2018 #829
Which prove that Poland has one of the lowest crime rates in the EU

Hmm, Yes?? I don't argue with facts.

has no need for a change to gun laws.

I don't see colerration between gun laws and crime rates. Maybe because such a colerration doesn't exist? ( a rhetorical question)

most people don't immediately think about trying to arm themselves with a gun. Me included.

Hmm, cannot speak for most people and I think you cannot do that either. As for your attitude towards guns, arming yourself and all of it. That is OK, that is your right, that is your choice and I have no problem with it. Good on you.

Why is that you don't reprociate my healthy attitude towards YOUR choices and your rights?
IF I would like to have a gun in Poland(or anywhere) you would be against it. That a lot like a totalitarian attitude. WHERE is my freedom of choice? Where are my rights?
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
20 May 2018 #830
@cms neuf

Sure let's compare the entire states of Idaho, west Virginia, Wyoming and Montana - all of which have ownership rates OVER 50% with Alaska the highest at 61%. That means over half the people, rich poor white black whatever have guns. Yet what is the murder rate in those states? How many massacres have there been? They are among the safest places to live in the US let alone the world.

All those states have extremely high rates of ownership yet a low murder rate by gun Therefore thst shows if anything theres more correlation to high gun ownership and a low murder rate than high ownership and high murder rate. Atleast thats what the numbers show....In fact, many of these states like north Dakota where half the population has guns has a LOWER/EQUAL murder rate than London where guns are all but banned

Makes no difference. Migrants were raping and pillaging europe 2.5 years ago and they are today. Last time I checked sweden/Stockholm is still the rape capital of europe.... And it sure as hell isnt native swedes causing the rapes to skyrocket

If warsaw replaced Stockholm as the rape capital of Europe after a million turd world migrants came in I guaruntee you people would start arming themselves especially women - just like that BBC video in germany. For now thankfully poland doesnt have that problem. It is one of the very few eu nations to NEVER have had an Islamic terror attack. Nor has it had a mass sexual assault like Nye in Germany every year since 2015. Nonetheless poles are scared that it could happen to them. That is why gun ownership rates are steadily increasing, why theres more and more applications each year, and why pis stated they aim to loosen the laws a bit. If you dont want to own a gun and have one in your home fine. But don't tell other people who can legally obtain one not to. That's what a democracy is about - freedom and having choices
Joker 2 | 1,266
20 May 2018 #831
You are still talking a small percentage of people in the overall scheme of things,

Same goes for the United States where our population is 325 million compared to the UK of 66 million. Crime is higher per capita in the UK.

many of these states like north Dakota

There is barely any crime in these area and yet everyone owns guns and they can openly carry them as well.

Of course these states haven't been multiculturally enriched by the Libs and never will.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
20 May 2018 #832
Yeah the msm will never talk about how idaho, Montana, Wyoming, etc is a success model for responsible gun ownership - among the highest rates anywhere in the world and yet theres barely any crime let alone gun crime. But if they flooded the place with migrants and ghetto ass people then immediately murder rate would skyrocket and theyd want to take away everyone's guns.... those states are a success model because there's no ghettos, there's no multiculturalism, it's mostly all white republicans and a few latinos that came for oil or agriculture jobs

The fact is Americans will never give up their guns - legal or illegal owners. Maybe the legal owners would stop concealed carry IF all the illegal guns were taken off the street FIRST. But the dems will.never do that. They hate law and order. I hate cops too but I understand their role in society. The dems just look at them as a racist institution that bothers young black men. Well maybe if black men werent causing the majority of the homicides despite being 6% 7% of the total population they wouldnt be so jumpy. Do you see cops harassing asian women or Indian guys? Of course not. Because they're not driving up the crime rate. Atleast some black people like tj sotomayor get it. And he gets persecuted and taken off youtube for speaking the truth...
cms neuf - | 1,579
20 May 2018 #833
Montana has a murder rate 3x higher than France - no surprise as guns are freely available to the poorly educated population.

Cant be bothered to look up Wyoming but at 16 murders in 2017 it is more than your bete noire grenade throwing no go zone of Malmo.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,665
20 May 2018 #834
Well there's been 300.shootings and 43 murders in sweden, naturally its not swedish people responsible for the vast majority of these crimes. It's not swedes chucking grenades into people's homes, that's a migrant, often somali thing

I'll save you the read - foreign people are 2.5 times as likely to be involved in crime, 76% of gang members are foreigners
Get rid of the foreigners, get rid of the majority of the problems
The only reason why Frances murder rate would be lower is because of places like nice, the city of Paris, Lyons, and the countryside. When you account for places like Marseilles or the Paris suburbs the story changes.

Explain then why do states like New Hampshire, North Dakota, Utah, Oregon, maine, massachusetts, hawaii, all have murder rates at or below frances 1.2 despite having far higher rates of gun membership? Could it be because there is little to no correlation to gun ownership and murder?

cms neuf - | 1,579
20 May 2018 #836
As i understand you are about to start an MBA. So one of the first classes you will do is statistics. I am sure that will include linear regressions and six sigma etc.

So maybe correlate gun ownership to murder and adjust for other variables - Wealth, density of population, age profiles, of course your favourite ethnicity , and once you have done that I think that you will see an extremely clear correlation between gun ownership and violent death at the habds of a gunman.

Of course policymakers all over Europe have already done that work - and come to the conclusion that liberal gun laws equals a huge spike in gun violence.

Cue some nonsense about your SAT score but at the moment, like most gun nuts your logic is to conpare the most peaceful rural areas of the US with the most deprived nd crowded parts of Europe. Thats the level of debate in the US unfortunately.
Chemikiem 7 | 2,473
20 May 2018 #837
WHERE is my freedom of choice?

Iron, I have no doubt that you would most likely be a responsible gun owner as are many other gun owners. My problem is that it is almost impossible to prevent the bad guys from getting hold of guns is a country that has them legally. When innocent people are shot and killed on the streets to the extent that they are in the US, I consider the price of bearing arms to be too high. The US is one of the most violent countries in the world and it is not a third world or developing country, it is a first world one. That is shocking.

Gun deaths are entirely preventable and when that particular freedom of choice impacts on the innocent to the extent that it does, I don't think that citizens should have the right to bear arms.

Why do you think that there are no plans to change the gun laws in Poland? There is no need and people aren't stupid. They look at the news and see massacre after massacre in the US, why would they want to import that sh1te into a lovely safe country?

Where are my rights?

What about the rights of the people gunned down through no fault of their own?
Ironside 50 | 10,810
21 May 2018 #838
My problem is that it is almost impossible to prevent the bad guys from getting hold of guns is a country that has them legally

Really? I mean are you for real? It is impossible to prevent the bad guys from getting hold of guns in any country regardless of the gun law period.

If that is the truth, (it is)why would punish ME and curtail my rights and freedom for somewhat mythical crime statistics. To my mind it is a magic thinking that does strike me as irrational fear of guns.

The same magic thinking that presents itself in a project or a bill (to be passed/ or already passed) to outlaw knifes in Britain. There is a law that forbids people to carry a knife, which obviously made no impression on criminals or gangs, it only puts a law abiding citizens on a disadvantage. Banning knifes it just a pathetically ridiculous idea but I bet you are all for it. As I said a magical thinking.

The US is actually a pretty safe country to live. That violence is pretty much centered around a few cities and da hood where gangbangers shoot at each other and anything that moves. Avoid those and you're safer than in any given first world country.

As for school or a mall shooting those issues had been addressed many times. Banning guns wouldn't put a stop to it.

Gun deaths are entirely preventable

No really. Anyhow what does it matter what has been used to kill, a gun or a knife or a club. Dead is dead.
You're wrong in thinking that gun deaths are preventable, you might reduce percentage of those but at what cost? In the North Korea gun crime and mass shooting are none existent if you exclude deaths from the regime's guns wielded by the 'official'/'state thugs. Would you be rather living in the North Korea or the USA?

What about the rights of the people gunned down through no fault of their own?@ Chemikiem

I didn't or wouldn't gun innocent people down, so why you put this at my doorstep? I refuse to be held accountable for the deeds of some insane or criminal people. I have done nothing wrong.

You should be ashamed for an attempt to put me with them in the same category just because of a tool even if it is a gun. People are not a collective but individuals and should be treated as such.
Lyzko 29 | 7,094
21 May 2018 #839
Guns are Middle America's security blanket, plain and simple!

As little Linus, the "Peanuts" character, needs his blanket to suck his thumb by, so to it seems, a majority of US-citizens apart from perhaps East Coast urbanites in places such as D.C., New York, Phili or Boston, desperately cling to their twelve gauge of even sawed-off variety as a way of establishing and asserting their manhood.

I too learned to fire a rifle, and yes, a pistol too, while in summer camp. My folks, particularly my mother, were horrified. I just thought it was fun, without ever assuming I'd seriously have need of one, save for the most dire of life-and-death emergencies sometime in adulthood. Like most of my contemporaries, I merely figured that the only ones who swore by those dangerous suckers were gun-nuts, hayseeds, and yahoos out there along the Beltway.

Those who proudly tote their weapons as a badge of pride, virility etc. aren't in fact real "men", but rather "man children" who most probably, in addition to showing off their shooting, also engage in wife abuse, bullying along with encouraging some of the worst excesses of violence we know.

Where exactly did we go wrong? Is the state of Texas unwilling as well as incapable of moving into the new Millenium??
Tacitus 2 | 1,144
21 May 2018 #840
It is impossible to prevent the bad guys from getting hold of guns in any country regardless of the gun law period

This is false as pointed out numerous times in this thread. Gun laws can effectively keep guns from the hands of unorganized criminals, and Japan shows that even organized crime can find it difficult to get it. And since most crimes are commited by petty criminals, this is an effective deterrent. Most burglars won't get a gun of it costs a small fortune and if found out would lead to a lengthy prison sentence.

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