Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun?

Guns are really not an issue here at all. You can hunt for game birds provided certain criteria are met but handguns are just not part of the culture, nor should they be.

So why do you let your cops and politicians carry one?

What politicians?

We are not scared of guns here.

We simply don't need any guns here. Well targeted "kłonica" can be very damaging to your opponent and no danger you shoot your own foot with it ;-)

On the week on my last stay in Houston, some drivers got into a hot argument, then one of them pulled out his gun and shot the other right in the head. If you are so proud of it Havok, keep your views on you side of the Atlantic Ocean.

This shows me that you have to be a madman willing to go there voluntary. God knows why the Poles want this visa waiver program so dearly. You have to be a masochist for that.

Guys, this is turning into a pissing contest.

U.S. is a country that was built with a gun in hand. People who created U.S. firmly believed that the right to bear arms is sacred, many of them escaped their oppressive governments back in Europe with a clear idea that a citizen could/should fight back if the Government ever tried to take away his rights. And guns figure into all this really well - difficult to boss people around too much if each and every family has a shotgun in their home.

This is clearly visible in the way certain groups of Americans approach the "gun" issue and quite frankly isn't really much of a reason to claim our "superiority". Different thinking, that's all.

"Baseball bat" - Darius, I think Havok was talking about Poland ( baseball bats are not legal there, technically ).

Your government rules You like a bunch of peasants - uncalled for.

Funny thing is that even if you could buy guns in Poland, you wouldn't be able to afford to buy bullets on your crappy salaries. - see above. The guys I talked about in this thread don't seem to have any problems buying bullets. Or big houses. Or new BMW 6 series every 5 years or so.

So it's ok to hit people and potentially kill them but it's not ok to shoot someone with a gun in self-defense. That's a weird_ass logic. You guys are brainwashed into believing guns are evil and you don't even know why.

That's silly, please let me have a link for this murder case.


I've experienced both worlds already and you're in for a rude awakening, Midas, anyways have nice time in Poland.

I'm also wondering if you're seeing what I'm seeing. For example, take a look at the former "East" Germany or Czech Republic. How come their socioeconomic advances are so way ahead of Poland's?

How do you explain that?

Here is my theory...

I think it's the Polish mentality that hasn't changed much over two decades. It's the same, or in actuality it moved backwards, thanks to your church.

If you want to catch up with the rest of the world you need to start thinking independently and outside the box at the same time.

Polish people are prejudiced and frantically scared of new ideas, and also very reluctant to adopt them quickly enough in order to get ahead of the curve before others do.

The reason why is that most Polish people have a hard time distinguishing a good idea, that might work, from a bad one. Why? Because they have no clue and they're scared to try anything other than they already know, which is pretty much not a lot, and limited to what they read about and see on TV. This fearful "dark ages" mentality is infecting Polish politics, business mass media and everyone's day to day decision making and God forbid someone steps out of the line there...

Your freedom of thought is hindered by all kinds of stupid nationalistic movements, Government's red tape and the Polish church.

You do realize that being conservative preserves the status quo, right? and it's only a good to be that way when you're well ahead of the rest of the crowd, but see, Poland is definitely not so I'm not sure what to tell you really... I don't hate Poland, perhaps I just hate stupid backwards polish mentality.

I must have something like... double vision? I could see the above somewhere else already.

Havok, please take it as granted: Do not try to save Poland against her will. You even don't want to save her; you're just venting your frustration out. Let the Poland's Polish live their way.

Back on topic: Could you name some European countries where citizens commonly carry firearms on them? I can't think of any. Then tell me: Why do you pin everything on Poland? What the heck has the Catholic church to do with that? Are you a hater of Poland? Do you have any mission from your god?

Pardon my delayed response, I'm at work.

You don't know much do you? As you wish.

Switzerland, Serbia if you consider it Europe, Finland, Sweden, Norway, France, Austria lol, the list goes on.


No, not really. I'm Polish and it hurts me that there are so many dumb Polacks out there.

@Havok

Here's another; you are stupid and ignorant. Reading your other posts confirm that. East Germany was reconstructed with the help of hundreds of billion of Euro's from West Germany.

And you are not possessing a brilliant insight into true freedom, you are simply dumb enough to believe the propaganda you have been fed. The USA is not free and the right to own a handgun isn't proof that it is. Wait until the law removes that right.

The argument that a citizen would realistically oppose the US government by the use of fire arms is silly. How do you stack up a shotgun or a hand gun against the government that has at its disposal the largest military in the world and spends about as much on, let's call it defense, as all the other countries combined. Do you really consider the US armed forces + the local police forces to be so weak?

The South, about 150 years ago was a much more even match, and how did they do?
Contrast that with the March on Washington. They didn't win their right because of a few Black Panthers nuts.

Now let me tell you how things worked in Poland around the introduction of martial law in 1981, in case you weren't there at the time. A a few weeks before December 13th all registered gun owners received an order to bring over their weapons to a milicja (communist police) building indicated in the letter, and by a certain deadline. There was no grace period. Anybody who was late received one loud knock on the door of their home. If the door wasn't open soon enough then another knock came. That one was with a boot of one of the armed officers. Both the police and the army may were present, and yes, I witnessed such an event.

I would imagine the US government and their military would be even better organized in a possible execution of a similar action if they decided it was needed. Sure, perhaps a few guys would have hidden a few unregistered guns, killed a cop or two; but these would be as dangerous to the government forces as a mosquito is to an elephant.

That's my take.

I didn't say anything of the sort, its your feeble grasp of the English language thats at fault. And reliance on Wikipedia for facts

When you look at the source of those statistics, you find that countries like Italy and France have estimates of unregistered weapons several times the legal quantity. Some figures are based on a estimate of ten times the actual figure.

In other words, it total garbage.

I do not know of Switzerland, and Serbia -- sorry -- is not "Europe" yet. Now, you have shown your sheer ignorance Havok: You do not carry firearms on you in Finland, Sweden, Norway. In these countries, the only weapons you are allowed to carry is the hunting gear, as long as you have the permission, same as in Poland. However, the police are very serious in those countries -- drink too much and you'll end up in handcuffs soon.

Norway is known about their knife-fighters. Once, I was followed by white Viking on parole, totally on drugs, pursuing me with a knife. He was so stoned he dropped his knife into the harbour basin before he got close to me. Imagine he had a gun... People are not allowed to carry guns in Norway, for their own sake. Same in Finland, many Finns are happy with Finnish knifes, too. Swedish are very reasonable, they call the police whenever they feel the urge ;-)

The statistics you have shown do not differentiate firearms such as shotguns (hunting firearm) from pistols, for instance.

Austria, France? I don't know. Any PF'er, what do you know about free access to firearms in Switzerland, France, Austria?


No. The inhabitans of Poland are Poles. Polacks are Polish immigrants who manifest the vices of the Polish nation abroad.

as soon as they get the congress to pass a swift amendment to the constitution...

No president, in their right mind, would orders the US military to stand against the US citizens...

from Wikipedia:
Austria
Guns are divided into four categories:
Category A - Forbidden weapons: Pump action shotguns, fully automatic weapons, semi automatic and other rifles when considered military weapons as well as disguised weapons.

Category B - Weapons requiring permission: Semi automatic long weapons for sporting and hunting, repeating (non-pump action) and semi automatic shotguns and weapons shorter than 60 cm in overall length (i.e. pistols and revolvers). Semi automatic long weapon models are required to be verified as civilian-legal before this category applies to them, otherwise they are considered category A. A permission can either be a hunting license, gun ownership license ("Waffenbesitzkarte", for sporting, collecting and self-defense at home or work) or a carry permit ("Waffenpass", for carrying a loaded weapon outside of the owner's home or workplace), with the ownership license being the most common way to category B gun ownership.

Category C - Weapons requiring registration: Break action guns and all repeating rifles (i.e. bolt-, lever- or pump action). All Austrian and European Economic Area citizens aged 18 or over can freely buy and own this type of weapon, but ownership has to be registered at a licensed dealer or gunsmith within 6 weeks of purchase.

Category D - Weapons free from registration: Non-repeating shotguns. Again, every Austrian or EEA citizen at the age of 18+ can buy and own this type of weapon without further registration or permission.

And, if you didn't know, you do need a permit to carry a weapon in the US. Just because you can own something, doesn't mean you can carry it into stores and other public places.

back to weapons laws in Poland - what is the downside of less gun control?

No need.
Martial law can be imposed on State level, no need for Federal involvement, even though a governor may ask for Federal help. Happened before.

I don't know any US state with its own military. Not even Texas.

and, btw, France allows much more than just hunting weapons, with a permit: any revolver and pistol, centrefire or rimfire, of a non-military calibre, short rifles having a total length of less than 80cm or a barrel length of less than 45cm, semi-automatic rifles with more than three shots capacity, repeater rifles with a magazine capacity of more than ten shots, riot guns with over five-shot capacity, semi-automatic or repeating military lookalikes, and disguised arms such as pen guns.

And I still don't know, with everyone arguing who can carry what, what is so bad about liberalizing gun laws in Poland.

True, no one is talking about an uprising but being able to effectively defend yourself, your family and your property from all reasonable threats. I feel our military is on our side, the Police as well, I have no reason to be scared of them, so a lot of this stuff you wrote sounds a bit ridiculous. I understand you're talking hypothetically...

Let me try to give you an example from Poland that shook me a bit, and i think you will know where i'm heading with this...



I know for a fact that stuff like that happens a lot in Poland. Do you know what i would do to those punks?

Thank you, Peterweg.

Although I am a frequent visitor to Czech Republic, I didn't know about releasing the weapon ban there. And I don't mind. The Czech people are extremely peaceful, cordial and reasonable nation. They also released marijuana possession ban as the first country around. So I'm not afraid Czech would abuse their rights. On contrary, release the firearms ban in Poland, and then regular shooting between football fans will start here :-)

(Can you legally possess small quantity of Mary Jane in Texas, Havok? I'm just asking a question. We Poles can.)


I know. You would pull out your pistol you've bought at a bazaar, then the first of the offenders would take the pistol out of your hand and shot your ass off.

You watch too many movies, I tell you what would happen, You would crap your pants and run away crying.

I've spent 4 years in the US military and I’ve not seen anyone being able to dodge a bullet or pull somone's gun out of their hand. Perhaps you're telling me that you can do that?

So Havok, you as experienced soldier would shoot at unarmed guys. I can guarantee you would spend the rest of your life in Poland. In jail.

the national guard is not exactly a state military, because it is administered by the federal government and the power of a governor to issue orders is limited.


so what, Poles are not? if it works for Czechs, why wouldn't it work for Poles?

Poles are very different to Czech, and the Czech culture is totally different from Polish. I do not want to elaborate on this point.

Let me think, a bunch of soccer hooligans or skinheads on my property throwing rocks at my windows? Hmm, I would ask them to leave first, and a minute later I would shoot their kneecaps off and then call the police to take them away, and then just go about the rest of my day in peace.

Yes, you can shoot people dead if they're on your propety and do stuff like in that story and you won’t get in trouble for it in Texas . As weird as it may sound to you.


How are pepiki different from Polacks? I want to hear that one.

well, you brought them up. all I'm trying to find out is why people think that liberalizing gun ownership in Poland is a bad idea. apparently, people are more interested in criticizing the US, as always, and fantasizing about the most impressive response to getting mugged, absent a gun or a klonica

Same in the UK and Holland of course. Personally I'm all for legalising guns, getting my hunting license is going to take a lot of time and effort. I'd love a Glock, for fun shooting.

The argument that ownership of guns = freedom is beyond stupid, however. Anyone who purports that argument has fallen for the propaganda, hook, line and sinker. If you need a weapon to defend yourself, you must be living in the US, SA or someother crime infested rat hole like Argentina so good luck to you but its a argument that doesn't travel far.


Why the insults about your own nationality? You feel superior now your live in Texas? I can't say I thought too much of it, nice people but boring as hell and if you thought poles were insular and small minded, I had some tell me they would never go past the borders Texas. Clueless.

Havok, you are really so far and you know so little...

I will tell you some true story, taking the facts off the top of my head now. In 1990s, a lonely woman Elżbieta had a property in some deserted place. Her property was frequented by a local gang, continually stealing different objects. One night, the gang came to steal the power-transformer from the property. Elżbieta went out with a legally owned shotgun in her hands. The offenders jeered at her. It was enough. She aimed the shotgun and shot at random. One of the thieves died.

Elżbieta was charged with homicide, not necessarily murder. She was defending herself by pointing out she was attacked on her own property, she was alone, it was night and she was being threatened by the offenders. The prosecutor pointed to the very fact the guys were unarmed, they did not attack her physically, so she had no right to shoot. The public opinion was very much for Elżbieta but I think she ended up with a prison sentence, perhaps suspended.

Many years have passed since. Nowadays, a property owner typically has a contract with a security agency, a push-button inside house, and the security guards can be called. Still, there is no excuse for killing anyone unless it is direct and necessary self-defence, and the means used for self-defence have to be proportional. In other words, someone attacking you with bare hands must not be killed by knife or firearm, unless you can prove it was a 2-meter, 130 kg athlete.

IIAME, please write a post and ask me on my opinion on the Czech nation again. I will not elaborate within allowed edit time of 6 minutes now in this post.

ok. get to the point. what is this supposed to show? that the people shouldn't have the right to bear arms because the government can confiscate them? maybe in a totalitarian country, but not here.


maybe I finally got the answer to why gun control is necessary in Poland - because people are irresponsible and cannot be trusted.

Exactly. Too many would use the firearms irresponsibly. Too many people drive drunk, too.
Besides, we need no guns. Kłonica suffices ;-)

take away their cars!

and make sure you have laws that forbid running with scissors...

want some helmets?

two things:

1. you have only approximate, idealistic idea of your own country's laws (many of us do in regard to ours)
2. the defense from the government is a hilarious argument fr the right to bear arms