The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?

Nor are you. Legal residency is required; citizenship is not. Fortunately I pass both of those hurdles however I see no reason to possess a firearm in Poland.

Having a criminal record rightly however bars people from holding a firearms licence.


How common?


I've probably done it rather more than you have.

This however is going off topic. The issue is support for a 'right' to own guns in Poland as the thread title suggests. And the government's formal consultation process suggests that thge broader opinion within Polish society is against this, as are the stats that only 0.76% of Poles hold firearms licences.

@jon357
Your funny jon. You have no idea about the level of interest of owning guns particularly when you stated not too long ago that you live in a war zone and not in Poland. But by all means please continue with your know all and all holy point of view. lmfao

You keep on posting phrases like that, when it's very clear that the opposite is true.


No I didn't. I live in Warsaw, as stated clearly in this thread.

And as all stats including the police stats (showing that only 0.76% of people in Poland hold firearms licences) and the official government consultation (showing that around 80% of the population either do not want the law weakened or want it to be tightened) show, there is no significant support for firearms proliferation.

lol as if the numer of registered firearms owners is any reflection of the interest in owning firearms? The numbers have no relation to each other. The government consultation when exactly? Before the war? Since the war? What segment of society was the government talking to? How many were spoken to? Who exactly conducted this research? What were the control measures for this reasearch?

You sound an awful lot like someone who supported mask mandates when they have been proven to be be completely inefective against the spread of COVID. Probably supported lock downs and the destruction of the world economy too. But of course, blind faith in government should be what all people strive for. Look how well it has served Russia and Belarus. The most dangerous phrase in the world, is "hi, we are from the government and we are here to help".

It is though, isn't it...


Several months ago. Do you think they should do it daily just because you disagree with the overwhelming majority?


There you go again.

@jon357
No it isn't. There is no way to equate interest our of existing ownership.

No, I dont think daily. I do think things have changed since I last looked there is no recent survey within the last year.

And there you have been going this whole time.

I'm sure they'll do another one sooner or later.

If the results are shockingly different to all the previous consultations, then perhaps it'll be worth mentioning. Meanwhile, since the consultation was done late last year and the latest police stats from just over 90 days ago, just shy of 100 licences have been issued.

Here is a poll from last year. After the start of the war. That was the survey I mentioned in my recent posts.
wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/sprawdzili-czy-polacy-chca-dostepu-do-broni-wyniki-badania-zaskakuja/g95yg4l

Thats an interesting poll. However, there are no numbers or data as to how many were polled and what the real demographics as to ages, sexes, and locations are in these. It is a political poll, it even says so. Good information, only 57% are against though. A little more than half who responded. Fair enough, but who is that? The political information is as devisive as in the USA for sure. Interesting. Thanks Lenka

???
The only 57% I spotted is fir people whobwould feel less safe if the law was relaxed...

@Lenka
57% out of how many? What ages? Men? Women? City or rural? These are very important information points. The poll is a political one mentioning left and right sides. Its still interesting, just not scientific.

Society has those always, both sides have voices to be heard as do those in the middle. In the end the majority counts, as reflected in elected governments rather than special interest groups.


Quite.

And around 80% of the people consulted by the government do not want the law weakening.

True but that doesn't answer the question what you were talking about when you said:


Also please note that while you are correct poll is not scientific it is a data.

@Lenka
Data and polling when done properly are quiet scientific. Again, this is interesting, but it is not anything close to something that could be considered reliable. 57 out of 100? or 570 out of 1000? Where are these people from? What are their ages? Men? Women? All of these demographic points are critical to making a real insightful poll. It is a political poll and that is it, nothing more. Not saying it is entirely wrong, but it is entirely incomplete.

Nor is your advocacy for weakening procedures for that matter.


Does that affect the result? If more women than men want something, or more people in Szczeciń than Lublin or more over 30-39s than 40-49s want or don't want a change, should that make a difference and if so, why?


Good, although frankly it's hard to know what you're saying here except that you disagree with the majority.

Typical Liberal mentality. "I don't want so you can't have one either."


(Probably is the key word there) I'll take that bet joun.
We here in America play cops and robbers and cowboy and Indians with play guns when we are kids and when we grew up, none of us have ever shot anyone.


Bingo !
Polls can be can be swayed very easily to get the result you want to.
Who is more likely to vote for say biden ?
1. a woman or man
2. a Democrat or Republican
3. a LBGTQ or a normal person
4. a Red State or a Blue State
5. a career welfare recipient or a union worker
6. a Black or a White person

There is not a country in the world including Poland where it's citizens would not like to own a firearms.
You don't want one then don't get one but please quit trying to vote for me.

Are you accusing the Polish government's consultative agency, CBOS, of 'swaying' a poll? On an issue that is not a controversial one in Poland?

Are the police's official stats also 'swayed'?


So nobody's ever shot anyone there?

@jon357
I am saying that the poll posted would never be used for anything because it lacks the absolute basics of proper foundation. Even stupid PiS sponsored polls at least say how many people were polled. This is a kindergarten political poll and nothing more.

Where was CBOS mentioned? I must have missed that in my reading. Or is this in the mysterious government poll that no one seems to be able to find published?

@johnny reb
And there JR is the issue. People only want to cite polls that suit their purposes, when all any intelligent person asks is for real data that can be drilled down and examined. What is the problem with data? Maybe it proves out that their opinion is correct and gives them an iron clad argument? Maybe it doesnt. But without real data, that poll is like my dog's $hit this morning. Runny and and of little substance.

So nobody has ever shot anyone in Poland ?
Oh that's right, a bunch of unarmed people got shot in Poland.
If they would have had guns they at least would have had a chance.

Considering that polls from across the board show similar results it's rather reliable. Definitely more than yours 'I think' 'I see' etc. Do you have any data to really contradict it?

Very rarely. Gun crime is fortunately low in Poland. In the 12 months to date there have been 35 deaths by firearm in Poland. In your country there have been 13,001.

Specifically, in Poland there were 0.08 gun deaths per 100,000 people. In your country there were 4.12 gun deaths per 100,000 people.

So Poland is clearly doing something right with its current procedures.


It doesn't, and interesting that you're trying to attack the government's consultation since you disagree with its overwhelming results.

They're not going to keep repeating it until it meets your minority opinion.


Try harder. Your attempts at low-level rhetoric do not serve you well.

In Poland this is not a left / right issue.

All mainstream politicians are happy with existing strict controls.

PiS, possibly the most right wing govt in Europe, haven't touched the gun laws after 8 years in power.

One dude, Kukiz, did consider adding easier gun laws to his fringe party's platform in 2017. Unfortunately for a TV interview he picked the day that some guy shot 60 concert goers from his hotel window in Las Vegas. That was just one, now forgotten massacre in a record year for gun deaths in the US.

Data shows that gun ownership is increasing in Poland sharply with the graph going almost straight up.
That tells me that the polls are not as accurate as your propaganda say they are.

Which data shows gun ownership going up ?

What "propaganda" ?

@Lenka
Your opinion doesnt make it reliable. When you ask for data to contradict it what are you asking for? The data that should have been in the poll the first place?

@jon357
Where exactly is the governments participation? This was a private poll. No head count included so it could have been a poll of all the office secretaries in downtown Warsaw, or all the strippers in Gdansk, but no one knows. Or do you mean the governments participation in the poll taking place in your own mind?

Prove me wrong with data. Real data, not made up bull$hit with no baselines. I do not mind being proven wrong, but I do mind useful political idiots who claim to be an authority and really are nothing more than a parrot.

Or prove yourself right. Something you have so far failed to do.

After all, you're the one advocating for a change in the status quo.

Everybody else here is hapopy with the way things are.

Any data that would suggest that there is desire to change the law in Poland. A poll, protest, demos...

@Lenka
Data. Why is there no mention of how many people were polled? That is the absolute minimal basis for which any poll becomes legitimate anywhere in the world.

@jon357
Advocating for a change in the process is not advocating for a change in the basic design of the system. Modernization is to the benefit of everyone.

I do not have to prove myself right, nor have I tried to. I am basing my opinion on obvious things taking place in Poland. You dont know they are obviouos because you do not go to gun ranges. You have your position and wont move from it. Perfect if you are in the stone age, but not a position based on real solid data. How many people were polled? Start there and then start talking.

Which you are.


That would be difficult.


And that means nothing.

Like the poll and your opinion.