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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


Ironside 50 | 10,939
27 Jan 2020 #1,291
Fire extinguishers can not be used in bank robberies or gang violence and in the wrong hands they are not deadly weapons

Sure they can be all that.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
27 Jan 2020 #1,292
Fire extinguishers save far more lives than guns.

Some how I don't think you would be able to provide credible sources to back up your personal opinion.

Fire extinguishers are not dangerous.

Neither are guns if used correctly.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,196
27 Jan 2020 #1,293
The gun debate is futile because Americans and Europeans have a different mind set when it comes to guns.
I understand both arguments and see validity in both.
But what it boils down to is that most Americans feel they need guns to protect themselves and most Europeans don't.
When I was a young man I got myself into a few potentially dangerous situations.
I never felt that I needed a gun to sort it.
Maybe it is different in America.
I have an open mind on the subject.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
27 Jan 2020 #1,294
The gun stats you will not see in MSM is how many times a gun only brandished prevented a crime.
Cops are 100% useless in this respect. They come to the scene to tape it up in yellow, put a cover over your face, and collect evidence.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
27 Jan 2020 #1,295
But what it boils down to is that

is that Pro American gun owners are referring to Law Abiding Citizens and European anti gun owners are referring to the public in general.

I have an open mind on the subject.

You seem to Milo and it is appreciated.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
27 Jan 2020 #1,296
Banning dindus would bring the murder rate down considerably more than banning firearms.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
27 Jan 2020 #1,297
I have an open mind on the subject.

I don't. A disarmed citizen is not a citizen but a subject, if not a slave.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
27 Jan 2020 #1,298
Yeah fts. Personally, I'd much rather do a few months than be caught without a firearm in a ****** situation, but that's just me.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
28 Jan 2020 #1,299
A country without the 1st or the 2nd is either fascist, communist or a Euro "democracy".
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
28 Jan 2020 #1,300
So strap on your AK and walk down Arbat with it. I don't think the Moscow police will want to engage in a long discussion of freedom and constitutional rights.

They s thread is about Poland BTW, where nobody wants looser gun law. The articles of the constitution you refer too are from an off topic country.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
28 Jan 2020 #1,301
I don't think

Why don't you try. You will like it.
BTW, I like my AK-47. How is your Polish sling?
Tacitus 2 | 1,228
28 Jan 2020 #1,302
Evidently most Polish people dont want their children to have mandatory safety training about what to do in a mass shooting.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,277
28 Jan 2020 #1,303
Guns or mass shooting are a totally strange subjects for Poland and Polish people.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
28 Jan 2020 #1,304
20 people killed in the US = 2 killed in Poland. Did Poland have a double murder or is it your custom to kill people but only one per event.

Evidently most Polish people dont want their children to have mandatory safety training about what to do in a mass shooting.

Maybe if Polish people liked guns more, Poland would not be off the map for almost two centuries. The US never was. Funny, isn't it?

I ....if we don't need a gun because we have the police then we don't need a fire extinguisher because we have firefighters.

Of the two, I would rather have a gun than a FE.
When I see fire in my kitchen, I can leave the house and enjoy the scene from across the street. When I see some a-hole in my kitchen, I can't leave and watch him kill my family from across the street. He will most likely not agree to let me go.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
28 Jan 2020 #1,305
Guns or mass shooting are a totally strange subjects for Poland

The last two potential mass shootings were stopped by armed citizens that saved the court, and prison system money not to mention the innocent lives.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
28 Jan 2020 #1,306
The last two potential mass shootings

But in Poland noone has to stop them because they don't happen. Wbić one od better in tour opiniom?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
28 Jan 2020 #1,307
Which one is better in your opinion?

neither, that is not the point, you lot just keep missing the point ...I wonder is that due too soviet education or just peroneal inability to process some issues.
Spike31 2 | 2,107
28 Jan 2020 #1,308
I wholeheartedly support a more laxed gun laws in Poland. And I think that a formation of Territorial Defense Units made of volunteers will speed this process up. Right now every, mentally stable, adult man can join WOT for a military training and learn how to use a pistol and an assault rifle in various tactical situations.

This spring I'll finally get my hunting licence and a good 'ol American Remington .338 lapua magnum hunting rifle.

It has a decent recoil and it is strong enough to put a wild boar, a moose or even a fat Kraut down with one shot :-P
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
28 Jan 2020 #1,309
Remington .338 lapua magnum hunting rifle.

Gees Oh Pete Spike !
Just a tad bit of over kill for a boar or moose.
That rifle is set up for a sniper to shoot 1800 meters.
If you hit a boar with that round all you would have left is minced meat.
And this is one more reason that education is very important before they let just anybody buy one. :-/
Spike31 2 | 2,107
28 Jan 2020 #1,310
Haha, no worries Johnny, I did get some advice from a more experienced fellow hunters before ordering it. It is a standard hunting rifle with a quite strong recoil suitable for a man with a bigger frame.

Apparently, it can also be used for sport shooting and as a tactical rifle.

That's what I've been looking for.

This is a similar model:

astroclassic.pl/karabin-powtarzalny-remington-700-xcr-tactical-kal-338-lapua-magnum/2830/

It is legally classified as a hunting rifle in Poland.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
28 Jan 2020 #1,311
Did you happen to notice the word "tactical" by any chance ?
It's not how powerful your weapon is, it's how well you place your shot.
I use a hunting rifle that is half that powerful and can put down any animal that lives in America with one shot.
Again, Poland would need much education and stringent laws before they could just hand out weapons like you are talking about.
Maybe Poland would have to start out on air guns to practice with first before real guns were available to them.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
28 Jan 2020 #1,312
neither

I assume you made a mental shortcut as noone sane would object to not having mass shootings.

As to why some people don't want more relaxed law- probably different reasons but I would say that top of the list is that they don't feel like they need one and feel safer without easy access to guns in the society.

BTW- thank you for figuring out my sentence- I didn't switch my input to English and the auto fill did the rest.
Spike31 2 | 2,107
28 Jan 2020 #1,313
Did you happen to notice the word "tactical" by any chance ?

I did notice that and that was one of main the reasons why I've wanted it. I wanted a more universal rifle.

You see, in Poland we've got a strict gun laws. One of a very few ways of getting a legal weapon is to become a licenced hunter.

Getting a hunter's licence was the fastest way for me to own a rifle for target practice and for a household defense as well. As simple as that. And before you tell me that there are better weapons for self-defense than hunting rifle: we're not living in the US and I cannot simply walk to a gun store and buy a shotgun.

That said I'm not saying that I will not enjoy hunting. Any reason to get out of the house to walk in the forest in a cold early morning is valid :-P
Ironside 50 | 10,939
28 Jan 2020 #1,314
why some people don't want more relaxed law-

Oh, they don't want some strangers to own guns or their neighbors but they wouldn't be against if that law would have made an exception for them. Unless they are women and have no clue.

thank you

no problem.
Lenka 3 | 2,561
28 Jan 2020 #1,315
I know quite a few who still wouldn't see a reason to have it. And that is even if we forget your sexism- if anything women have more reason to want one as we have on average less physical strenght to fight off the attacker.

And even if we assume you are right- it doesn't change anything- still nore people wouldn't want more relaxed gun law.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
28 Jan 2020 #1,316
They s thread is about Poland BTW, where nobody wants looser gun law

The amount of gun owners has grown a lot in the past few years and continues to grow. Whereas before, most Poles wouldn't care about owning a gun for self defense, thanks to the muslim hordes raping and pillaging our next door neighbor, now more and more Poles are considering arming themselves.

Poland we've got a strict gun laws. One of a very few ways of getting a legal weapon is to become a licenced hunter.

There's 3 difference licenses - hunting, sport, and self defense. The license for hunting isn't too different from obtaining a license/FOID card in the USA. It's almost the exact same rules.

Now with concealed carry in the USA, you have to take a course and apply for that permit. It's somewhat similar to the license for self defense in Poland, but Poland's is more strict than concealed carry permit.

we're not living in the US and I cannot simply walk to a gun store and buy a shotgun.

You can't in the USA unless you have a license or pass the background check. You can't just go to your local supermarket, take a shotgun off the shelf, and have the cashier scan it and you're done. It doesn't work that way.

The only way to purchase a shotgun without presenting the appropriate paperwork or passing the background check is if you buy/sell privately, but all sporting goods stores, gun shops, registered gun dealers, etc. will require you to go through background checks or present a FOID card.

One news reporter from a left leaning channel once did a program on apparently "how easy it is to buy a gun." Well, he felt pretty stupid when they refused to sell him a gun because of an old minor charge he had that disqualified him.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
28 Jan 2020 #1,317
if anything women have more reason to want one

No, as a general rule of a thumb they don't. (some odd balls maybe different) They rely on their men or a society and their families to protect them. Anyhow Poland is pretty safe as it is. Women are practical and rather do not think about those issues much.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
28 Jan 2020 #1,318
I did get some advice from a more experienced fellow hunters before ordering it.

Couple of questions here.
How much did it cost you and take your time to google it.
I see here in the States they cost about $2700 (10,500 Zloty).

Apparently, it can also be used for sport shooting and as a tactical rifle. That's what I've been looking for.

Sporting ? That thing is a cannon and it is a very heavy gun (6 kg) to carry around all day hunting.
It would totally destroy any animal beyond being able to eat it unless you hit it in the head. (They shoot a 250 grain bullet which is a pumpkin)

It is definitely not a sporting gun, it is made for long range shooting (up to 2000 meters) and the ammo for it is very expensive $2.20 per round (8.5 zloty) which makes it impractical to just go out and shoot up a couple of boxes on a Sunday afternoon for fun target practicing.

fastest way for me to own a rifle for target practice and for a household defense

You are joking right, if you shot that thing inside a house not only would you be deaf for life but also the round would go thru the victim, (if you could manage to even hit him with that beast) then go thru the wall of your house, across the field and thru the wall of your neighbors house killing the baby sleeping in it's crib !

No, it is not a weapon for self defense Spike, your fellow hunters are a very bad source of information.
You should have asked old wrinkled up redneck J.R. from the U.S.A. who has been shooting guns for over a half century making him an expert on the subject.

I am starting to see now why Lenka thinks it is a bad idea for the Polish to own guns.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,196
28 Jan 2020 #1,319
I am starting to see now why Lenka thinks it is a bad idea for the Polish to own guns

It's not just the Poles. It's all Europeans.
We just do not have the American knowledge and love of guns that you Americans have.
We don't see the need for them.
But as I said in a different thread, life in America is not like life in Europe and we have a different mentality on this subject.

This subject will only continue to divide Europe and America forever.
Which is why I continue to have an open mind.
johnny reb 28 | 5,301
28 Jan 2020 #1,320
life in America is not like life in Europe and we have a different mentality on this subject.

I will say that you have explained it better then anyone else here Milo.
That is why I was so appalled when I saw the ignorance in Spikes posts.
Thanks for your grounded input so we can stay more On-Topic here.


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