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-ski/-ska, -scy/ski, -wicz - Polish surnames help



boletus 30 | 1,367    
14 Jul 2012  #91

[

hmmm... I think this 'owicz" suggested rather town dwellers [like -in Sebastian Klonowic/z]

Wrong example. He was a son of Jan Klon - a tenant of a farm and mill on Orla river - and Anna Pietrzałek. Not a dweller of town of Klonów or something.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Fabian_Klonowic

It wasn't that source, but maybe that's just one more source that proves my point.

This proves nothing. You just need to learn to listen a bit. Did you miss my rant about Possessive Adjective forms? Let me try it again.

Some Slavonic languages use this form to a lesser of greater extent. Have you ever noticed how Czech female surnames are formed? Their -OVÁ (Polish corresponding form is -OWA) form originally meant to express possession, as wives used to belong to their husbands. Now this form is used as a general feminine inflexion of male surnames.

Novák ==> Novák-ová (implicitely Novák's wife or daughter)
Haneš ==> Haneš-ová
Bartoš ==> Bartoš-ová
Havlík ==> Havlík-ová
Krk ==> Krk-ová
Šlytr ==> Šlytr-ová
Kuèera ==> Kuèer-ová
Homolka => Homolk-ová
Housle ==> Housl-ová
Mièko ==> Mièk-ová
Štýblo ==> Štýbl-ová

Similar naming pattern used to exist in Polish as well:
Zając ==> Zając-owa
Wróbel => Wróbl-owa (or Wróbelowa)
etc.

So, I do not see any Jewiness in here so far. Do you?

STEP 2: Combining "son of" (possessive form) and "little one"

As another example, let us turn our attention to surnames of some South Slavic groups such as Serbs, Croats, Montenegrins, and Bosniaks. They traditionally end with the suffixes "-iè", "-ić" and "-vić" (often transliterated to English and other western languages as "ic", "ich", "vic" or "vich". The v is added in case the name to which "-ić" follows ends on a vowel, to avoid double vowels with the "i" in "-ić".) which are diminutives meaning "a little one" indicating descent. Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian also use the possessive form "son of" (or "daughter of"), indicated by -OV.

So for example, if your ancestor was named Petr (Petar), his son could be named Petr-ov (son of Petr), whose son in turn could bear surname Petr-ov-ić - a little one born to the son of Petr.

On the other hand, Petr-ić means Peter's little one.

Similarly,
Stefan => Stefan-ov-ić
Stefan => Stefan-ow-ić.
Kovaè (blacksmith) => Kovaè-ević (could not use Kovaè-ić according to the above pronunciation rule)

Bosniak Muslim names follow the same formation pattern but are usually derived from proper names of Islamic origin, often combining archaic Islamic or feudal Turkish titles i.e.

Mula-omer-ov-ić
Šaban-ov-ić
Hadži-hafiz-beg-ov-ić etc.

Oh, no, Muslims use the -owicz as well.? :-)

Not us. We owned a farm in Lipsk, and Jewish non-nobles would've never married gentile nobles. The Andrulewiczes and Morgiewiczes married Chernetskis and Danilowiczes.

You are way off topic. Pay attention, girl. We are discussing your (erroneous) claim that surnames ending in -owicz indicate Jewish origin. This has nothing to do with a farm in Lipsk, etc.

"...In Eastern Europe where most Ashkenazic Jews lived, governments often used Slavic translations of the Yiddish surnames...The 'owicz' ending would have varied spellings in other Eastern European languages...German scribes [would use] 'owitz'... "

Not sure if that's my misinterpreting what it says but it seems to be in a book about Jewish people's names, so... maybe the endings/suffix "owicz" is of Jewish heritage.

Nowhere it says that -owicz suffix indicate Jewishness.

On the list of typical Jewish surnames, en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Jewish_surnames there is a short list of -owicz names:
Aron-owicz (from Aaron)
Abram-owicz (from Abraham)
Berk-owicz
Dawyd-owicz (from David)
Josel-ewicz (from Joseph)
Szlom-owicz (from Szloma, Solomon)
Lejb-owicz (from Loeb, Loew, Leib, Loewe (lion))
Alper-owicz (from German Heilbron, Halpern, Halperin, Heilbronn)
Herszk-owicz ?
Kantor-owicz (from kantor)

This is a very, very small list - only 12 or so surnames, out of hundreds and hundreds listed there. And what do they have in common? They are mostly patronymic names, made of Hebrew or Yiddish first names - following standard forming rules for Slavonic languages.

And yet Nickidewbear concluded that "-owicz" (...) was meant to denote Jewishness. Like what it supposed to be, a hidden handshake? It's not -owicz that tells the story of the surname origin, is the root of the surname that clearly indicates the Jewishness.

I just extracted from a long list of 20,000 surnames, of people currently living in Poland, the list of names ending in -owicz. That's 337 surnames of this pattern. By Nickidewbear's claim all of them must be Jewish surnames? Can she prove it? Of course she cannot. Most of them are patronymic names, stemming from Polish, Belarusian and Ukrainian given names. Yes, and a precious few seem like being of Jewish or German origin:

Dawidowicz, Abramowicz, Lewkowicz, Naumowicz, Majchrowicz, Lewandowicz, Lemanowicz, Frydrychowicz, Samsonowicz, Bursztynowicz, Moszkowicz, Kantorowicz, Żydowicz, Afeltowicz, Arentowicz, Hermanowicz, Kurantowicz, Majerowicz, Achramowicz, Lazarowicz, Berkowicz, Melerowicz, Jarmołowicz, Serafinowicz,

Oh, well, 24 names of possible candidates for Jewishness (there might more, but I have no time for close examination). Well, there are also some 23 Ruthenian/Lithuanian/Tatar names with this pattern: Waśkowicz, Fedorowicz, Fiedorowicz, Daniłowicz, Litwinowicz, Semenowicz, Osipowicz, Trochimowicz, Miśkowicz, Walentynowicz, Fiłonowicz, Rusinowicz, Tatarowicz, Bytrymowicz, Iwanowicz, Prokopowicz, Sidorowicz, Popowicz, £awrynowicz, Ostapowicz, Bohdanowicz, Wołkowicz, Zubowicz,

So we still have to allocate some 270 surnames or so. What to do with the given names that sound Polish, or are not formed from given names, such as Kotowicz (from Kot, this from kot, a cat)?

Wójt (village mayor), Sak (bag), Karp (carp), Wąs (moustache), Przybył (newcomer), Wojnar (war maker), Stary (old), Grab (hornbeam), Ruta (rue), Obuch (ax head), Dziad (lout), Ułan (uhlan), Kos (blackbird), Kot (cat), Bednarz (cooper), Grzywna (fine), Kłos (corn ear), Dąb (oak), Kiełb (mullet), £uk (bow), Drozd (thrush), Baran (ram), Kozioł (goat), Broda (chin), Bober (beaver), Mróz (frost), Ogród (garden), Miech (bellow), Kret (mole), Rak (crayfish), Lis (fox), Orzeł (eagle), Groch (pea), Bób (broad bean), Nosek (little nose), Nos (nose), Górny (upper), Czyż (syskin), Jawor (maple), Śmiech (laughter), Gajda (bagpipe), Tur (auroch), Topor (ax), Chleb (bread), Rozmysł (intent), Kiełek (sprout), Włos (hair), Kołtun (babbitt), Włoch (Italian), Szpak (starling), Dziura (hole), Wykręt (dodge), Dzik (boar), Wdowiec (widower), Ostrów (holm), Kępa (hurst), Bąk (gadfly), Dzieciuch (childish) ...

And the Polish given names:
Adam, Urban, Aleks, Piotr, Stach, Lach, Bogdan, Józef (?), Paweł, Kasper, Marek, Klim, Jan, Stefan, Czech, Augustyn, Lech, Antoni, Roman, Ignacy, Wiktor, Jakub (?), Maksym, Kondrat, Piech, Ciechan, Michał, Wojciech, Zych, Kacper, Sobek, Grzenko, Wyszko, Kochan, Wawrzyn, Kuba, Węgrzyn, Kuryło, Zygmunt, Gregor, Olko, Bartek, Teodor, Witek, Gaweł, Piotrek, Gasper, Tomek, Balcer, Krzysztof, Szymek, Fabian, Rafał, Ścisło, Konstanty, Leszek, Miron ...

So no, the Nickidewbear's claim does not hold any water. And if this is not enough I can also provide you with links (some of them Jewish) how the process of making Jewish surnames really looked like - first in the free and later in the occupied Poland.


InWroclaw 90 | 1,921    
14 Jul 2012  #92

That's a lot of research you've done there Boletus.

I can't comment on the accuracy of the book, I just linked to it. Perhaps the author there was referring primarily to the owicz surnames you quoted, namely -

Dawidowicz, Abramowicz, Lewkowicz, Naumowicz, Majchrowicz, Lewandowicz, Lemanowicz, Frydrychowicz, Samsonowicz, Bursztynowicz, Moszkowicz, Kantorowicz, Żydowicz, Afeltowicz, Arentowicz, Hermanowicz, Kurantowicz, Majerowicz, Achramowicz, Lazarowicz, Berkowicz, Melerowicz, Jarmołowicz, Serafinowicz,

If on the other hand the author would maintain all owicz have Jewish origins, it would be interesting to see how he arrives at that conclusion beyond that which he described on page 73 there.
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
14 Jul 2012  #93

This is why you're on my ignore list, boletus. First of all, "Adam" and "Daniło", as well as "Jakub" among other names (e.g., Stefan), come directly from the Hebrew and other languages in the Bible. Secondly, I said that I couldn't find the original source; and yet, you resort to flank attacks and accuse me of being stupid or a liar. Thirdly, many Jews took or created Polish and other non-Hebrew surnames in the Diaspora.
boletus 30 | 1,367    
15 Jul 2012  #94

This is why you're on my ignore list, boletus.

That's fine

First of all, "Adam" and "Daniło", as well as "Jakub" among other names (e.g., Stefan), come directly from the Hebrew and other languages in the Bible.

This had nothing to do with anything. Surnames of Polish nobility were formed somewhere in XIII c., surnames of Ruthenian and Lithunian nobility - and most of them -icz and -owicz, started being formed in XV c. Before that the form "Danyło of village-such-and-such" was mostly used. Adam, Daniel and Jakub have been used in every Christian country from the very beginning of history. Many Polish Jews obtained their surnames way before the partitions, but the real push came from Austrian and Prussian administration - in 1800s.

Secondly, I said that I couldn't find the original source; and yet, you resort to flank attacks and accuse me of being stupid or a liar.

I did not say it, I said that you did not pay attention to what I was trying to explain to you. You are still blind, and that is fine with me.
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,366    
15 Jul 2012  #95

Nickidewbear: This is why you're on my ignore list, boletus.

why ignore someone who has done their research and is sending you interesting information?
because it does not agree with what u think?

She's a well known internet psycho - type "Nickidewbear" into Google,

loooooooooool, see what you mean, now i am going to google 'delphiandomine'

Talking of Polish/Jewish surnames, could anyone tell me if LATES is typical?
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
15 Jul 2012  #96

why ignore someone who has done their research and is sending you interesting information?
because it does not agree with what u think?

The way that he's going about it is what I don't like. Besides, I know the whole story about us being "noble"--I've heard it from my lying granddad before.
schupp    
12 Sep 2012  #97

who could help me? according to the 1904 manifest from ellis island, my great grandfather (Constantine John) came over from (last residence) Bialystok. He is listed as being born in russia. his wife (Bronislawa "Bertha" Ann) is listed as being born in poland. On the manifest it has the last name as being Schublekowitz or Schublikowitz. On the draft registration cards his name is listed Schuplicovitch. At some point the name was shortened to Schupp. I am having such a hard time finding any variation of the name anywhere. On my father's birth certificate it lists his father's birthplace as Grodno (who came over with my great grandfather)

My great grandmother's maiden name was Misiewicz. Her brother (John) came to the states in 1905. He is listed as residing from Surprasal. But like the others I cant find him anywhere either.

Can anyone help break these names down?
Polonius3 1,019 | 12,575    
12 Sep 2012  #98

If the father's name was Adam Jedlig, what would his unmarried daughter have been called in pre-war Poland?
boletus 30 | 1,367    
12 Sep 2012  #99

^^
Jedliżanka, of course.
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
13 Sep 2012  #100

who could help me? according to the 1904 manifest from ellis island, my great grandfather (Constantine John) came over from (last residence) Bialystok. He is listed as being born in russia. his wife (Bronislawa "Bertha" Ann) is listed as being born in poland. On the manifest it has the last name as being Schublekowitz or Schublikowitz. On the draft registration cards his name is listed Schuplicovitch. At some point the name was shortened to Schupp. I am having such a hard time finding any variation of the name anywhere. On my father's birth certificate it lists his father's birthplace as Grodno (who came over with my great grandfather)
My great grandmother's maiden name was Misiewicz. Her brother (John) came to the states in 1905. He is listed as residing from Surprasal. But like the others I cant find him anywhere either.
Can anyone help break these names down?

Could their family story have been similar to my great-great-grandparents' story? And, yes, there were Jewish communities in Grondo and Białystok.
boletus 30 | 1,367    
13 Sep 2012  #101

My great grandmother's maiden name was Misiewicz. Her brother (John) came to the states in 1905. He is listed as residing from Surprasal. But like the others I cant find him anywhere either.

This part of your quest is a bit easier to handle. One database lists 29 surnames "Misiewicz", born between 1850-1885 in Podlasie Voivodship. Two of those are Bronisława and Jan. Check if their birth dates match.

+ 1885, Bronisława Misiewicz, Suwałki
+ 1865, Jan Misiewicz, Jaminy (Gmina Sztabin, Augustów County)
Check this: http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?rid=B&from_date=1850&to_date=1 920&search_lastname=Misiewicz&exac=1&rpp2=50&rpp1=0&bdm=B&url1=&w=10pl &op=gt

The name Schublekowitz, Schublikowitz, Schuplicovitch is very much encrypted. If it was ever spelled in Polish fashion it should be of the form: SZU-----WICZ. I have no idea what are the letters between: Szulakowicz, Szulakiewicz, Szublikowicz?

But if the name was spelled in Cyrillic, Russian way, then the transliteration could involve SCHU---WITZ or SCHU---WITCH, etc.
Polonius3 1,019 | 12,575    
13 Sep 2012  #102

A+ to Boletus! My granddad used to tell an anecdote about a wedding between a mythical Jan Chrzan and Maryanna Jedlig in which the priest supposedly said: Maryanna z Janem, Jedligówna z Chrzanem... (untranslatable!)
goofy_the_dog    
13 Sep 2012  #103

haha, very funny indeed... Jedligówna z chrzanem ! :D
schupp    
14 Sep 2012  #104

thank you for responding and for that link. The birth years don't match up with their names. I did some searching for a little while and will do a little more with it at some point. I went back and re-read this forum. I will try looking for my great grandmother by adding -owna to the end of the surname. With my great grandfather, I'm going to change my search effort and try searching Szublikewicz/Szuplikewicz. I'm thinking his name might of originated with Szuplik/Schuplik/Shuplik.

Any thing I should know about the Polish alphabet that may help my searching?
boletus 30 | 1,367    
14 Sep 2012  #105

With my great grandfather, I'm going to change my search effort and try searching Szublikewicz/Szuplikewicz.

Your candidates are quite unlikely; even google search show 0 results. See some other examples below
Szublikiewicz - google: 0
Szublikowicz - google: 0
Szuplikiewicz - google: 0
Szuplikowicz - google: 0
Szulakiewicz - google: 50,400; MoiKrewni: 195 ;
Szułakiewicz - google: 29,200; MoiKrewni: 132 ;
Szubiakiewicz - google: 3,640; MoiKrewni: 13

Any thing I should know about the Polish alphabet that may help my searching?

Yes, Polish language has 9 extra characters, represented with diacritics. They are shown on this page just above the edit box. Some Polish database searches are sensitive to this. You can use the edit box here to write any Polish name properly, then copy and paste it to external search fields. Examples 5 and 6 above demonstrate such subtle difference in spelling (and in pronunciation).
schupp    
14 Sep 2012  #106

thank you! i'll update you if i find anything!
BogFrog    
11 Mar 2013  #107

Hello,

I am an American of partial Polish ancestry. I uncovered a maiden name of a polish great grandmother of mine, which, according to FamilySearch.org, by one document is "Orlenkowicz". This one document has her place of birth as "Filipki, Poland", which seems to narrow down to one or more area in northeastern Poland.

Is Orlenkowicz a bastardization of something else?
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
11 Mar 2013  #108

Probably not, and the "-owicz" suffix can be Yiddish (Ashkenazi) Jewish. Keep that in mind.
BogFrog    
11 Mar 2013  #109

Bwahaha...thanks for the very swift reply there. I thought I felt a "push" to check back this page.

I see earlier there was some dispute regarding just how universally Ashkenazi the -owicz suffix is. I do not claim to be an expert enough on the matter to have a very informed opinion on it myself.

Interesting you bring that up. I recently also stumbled upon a tidbit up my German side, an individual named "Mortiz Hahn". I understand both, while also often ethnic German, were fairly popularly used by German Jews.

Thanks

Goodness....that's "Moritz"...not Mortiz.
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
11 Mar 2013  #110

I read it somewhere re "-czyk" vs. "-owicz" since I was looking up Teresa Makarczyk Czarnecki (who indeed was a fellow Jew; z"l); but I can't find where at present.

Interesting you bring that up. I recently also stumbled upon a tidbit up my German side, an individual named "Mortiz Hahn". I understand both, while also often ethnic German, were fairly popularly used by German Jews.

Thanks

You're welcome. Many Ashkenazim and those of Ashkenazi descent don't often know their roots--I didn't. I was in shock to learn that my Andrulewicz relatives took our surname only in Stakliškės (It was Andrulevicus, before they moved to Poland and the Ukarine, and with the majority of them being Crypto Jews. Some, like Vil'gel'm Andrulevich, did stay openly Jewish, even if not Messianic.). As far as my Daniłowicz relatives, we were Krasner(?) Jews (whatever you would call a Jew from Krasne). Same with the Czerneckis (Julian Czernecki's mother was a Daniłowiczówna of Krasne.) and the Margiewiczes (Aleksjandria Andrulewiczówna Czernieckówa, whose mother was a Margiewiczówna, threw a fit when her firstborn--my great-granddad Anthony John Czarnecki, Sr.--threw an absolute fit when he married a believing Jew named Mary Trudniak; the daughter of Kacwin-born Mihaly Trudnyak and his £apsze Niżne-born wife, Anna nee Monková. She almost even caused Mary Trudniak Czarnecki to have a mental breakdown!).

BogFrog

Goodness....that's "Moritz"...not Mortiz.

I didn't notice the typo. At least you didn't do it on purpose. My great-great-grandparents fiddled with names several times, including our surname--which was originally Czernecki (Chernetski). Of course, for being Anusim kicked out of Poland by their non-converting, non-Crypto family; they can be fully understood, even if not condoned, in their actions. Julian Czernecki (whatever his real name was, though--given that there was a Jewish St. Julian--he may have gotten away with having that name--besides that "Julian" became an adopted "secular" or Diasporan name) was born on December 24, 1875 in Lipsk nad Biebrza to "Antoni" Czernecki and "Katarzyna" Daniłowiczówna Czernecka. Upon converting during the pogroms, he decided to leave Poland and became, variously:

Julian Laczinsky (from his dad's mom's name)
Julian Zernetzky
Julias Czornecki (Czarnecki)
Julius Charnetski
Felix Czarnecki
Julius Chernetski

etc.
BogFrog    
11 Mar 2013  #111

At least you have family "lore" to back things up. My old man's old man apparently didn't volunteer much information- and I cannot ask myself, as I havn't had a living grandparent on either side since about the age of 10. The polish side, from my mother, is also a vague history mostly mysterious to myself...the word was just that "they were Polish". I'm seeing now how they just Might have been crypto-Jews (although I am a bit far form being able to be certain of that)...interestingly, my great grandfather had on a document detailing his place of birth as "Kriwicz, Vilno, Poland". I'm not sure what "Kriwicz" means in that context...I assumed an area nearbye, or neighborhood, etc....but "Vilno", my research yields, might refer to what is now Vilnius, Lithuania. And there during the 19th century was a Substantial percentage of Jews living there. This fellow's surname was "Pawlowski", so I do not heavily suspect Ashkenazi ancestry on that branch...but things could have been changed, I suppose.

Also, I basically just discovered a surname "Pawacki". Not sure of anything behind a meaning or anything about that name.
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
11 Mar 2013  #112

At least you have family "lore" to back things up. My old man's old man apparently didn't volunteer much information- and I cannot ask myself, as I havn't had a living grandparent on either side since about the age of 10.

My condolences. Meanwhile, actually, I found this out all myself with the help of my cousin Kevin Fosko (who can be a mensch, yet a pain the tuchus sometimes) and others. I was told that we were Polish Lithuanians related to Anti-Semitic Stefan Czarniecki, etc.

The polish side, from my mother, is also a vague history mostly mysterious to myself...the word was just that "they were Polish". I'm seeing now how they just Might have been crypto-Jews (although I am a bit far form being able to be certain of that)...

Don't be uncertain. If you've got a hunch, go on it. Polinyah loved the Jews for the most part. It's our own families who didn't love us even when we became Anusim. Of course, the Russians didn't love us--they co-opted part of Polinyah and tried to murder every Jew in then-Russian Poland.

interestingly, my great grandfather had on a document detailing his place of birth as "Kriwicz, Vilno, Poland". I'm not sure what "Kriwicz" means in that context...I assumed an area nearbye, or neighborhood, etc....but "Vilno", my research yields, might refer to what is now Vilnius, Lithuania. And there during the 19th century was a Substantial percentage of Jews living there. This fellow's surname was "Pawlowski", so I do not heavily suspect Ashkenazi ancestry on that branch...but things could have been changed, I suppose.

"Kriwicz" is probably a town--perhaps even a shtetl--within then-Vilnius Gubernia, I suppose.

Also, I basically just discovered a surname "Pawacki". Not sure of anything behind a meaning or anything about that name.

"Pavatski"...hmm...I have no idea, either; though we sometimes made up surnames because we were required to have surnames.
BogFrog    
11 Mar 2013  #113

Thanks for the insightful responses. I sort of have hit a brick wall with this (I have some bad luck with that), but I have a wee bit more to go on. Thanks again.
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
12 Mar 2013  #114

You're welcome. I have some brick walls myself. May Yeshua return soon and remove those brick walls.
BogFrog    
12 Mar 2013  #115

"3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that Elohim is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham".- Matthew 3:9

:)

I just want to remind you that this thread is about surnames
Nickidewbear 20 | 522    
12 Mar 2013  #116

Mod's comment: I just want to remind you that this thread is about surnames

Sorry about that.
Lenka 2 | 1,071    
12 Mar 2013  #117

Nothing major just try to stay on topic :)
Schupp    
15 Mar 2013  #119

I found a little more info on my family. Not much more but info that confuses me more.
I looked at death records for my great grandfather an great grandmother.
My great grandmother, Bertha (Bronislawa Schublekowitz - on ship manifest) Misiewicz Schupp was born in Nikolovo, Poland. Parents were Joseph Misiewicz and Emilia Stark.
My great grandfather, John Constantin (Konstanti Schublekowitz - on ship manifest) Schupp was born in Zuprokos, Russia. No parents were listed.
I tried to look up Nikolovo/Nikolowo(a) and Zuprokos and could not find anything at all. Could these be old villages? Has anyone heard of these towns or villages? How would I go about finding info on them?

Thanks
aleszm    
23 Mar 2013  #120

hello!
my name is alexandre szmargowicz jewish last name from vladimir volinski area old poland territory currently ukraine in volhinia-galitiza area.also have some roots of a city called Chelm(now poland). someone know something about SZMARGO meanning?

thanks guys i really appriciate this!




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