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Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D


nomaderol 5 | 726
6 Apr 2010 #691
Yes, all subjective. In the past, Chinese were saying Chinese is the easiest language to learn probably they wanted others to learn their language as it was more difficult to teach another language to big population of China. Ottomans did mixing (Turkish, Persian and Arabic) to simplify their political relations by generating Ottoman-ish. We were learning German before while industry was heavy industry some decades ago. Now, with this era of computer, we are learning English more.

All debatable. But, this is not debatable:

Hardest language to learn is their language of women.
Lyzko
6 Apr 2010 #692
Chinese has no "grammar" in the Western sense of the word (so I've observed, though I understand virtually none of the language whatsoever), merely the confounding challenge of identfying and then memorizing thousands of hannyu characters. That in itself ups the ante of difficulty.

Polish simply has the burden of case endings and conjugation patterns, unknown in Chinese, if I'm not mistaken.
Lyzko
7 Apr 2010 #693
Regrog, ja bardzo ciekawy jestem co czują polskokrajowcy ucząc się angielskiego:

Na dole mała wersja angielska humoristyczna:

"I take it you already know of 'cough', and 'bough' and 'lough' and 'doe'.
Many may stumble (but not YOU) on 'hiccup' 'thorough' 'tough' and 'through'!
Come, come, you might say perhaps, of several less familiar traps.
There's always 'bird', a dreadful word, that unlike 'hurt', but sounds like 'word'....."

T. Pratt

:-)))))) DOBREJ ZABAWY!!

Atasia, I'm also a language freak and was once told by a native speaker friend from Berlin, that my German was so convincing, no Swede would ever take me for a Frenchman:-)))

Considering I'm an American through and through with only a passing knowledge of French, I'm not so sure that was intended as a compliment. LOL
Ahead22
8 Apr 2010 #694
I think all polish people are simply ashamed to post here, because they realize that their language is simply tracking them down so much.

poland, with a normal language, and not polish, woruld have been 200 years ahead now...
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Apr 2010 #695
Eh, come again!? Attitude is what it's all about. Their language is as it is. One of my students tested me out with counters yesterday. I was doing really well until I hit the counter for 6 horses. Then again, I don't imagine that popping up in discussion.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
8 Apr 2010 #696
I think all Polish people are simply ashamed to post here. I think all polish people are simply ashamed to post here, because they realize that their language is simply tracking them down so much.

Plenty of posts by Polish people in this thread. Or is your English tracking you down and makes it hard for you to realize that?

Poland, with a normal language, and not polish, would have been 200 years ahead now...

Define "normal language"?
ShortHairThug - | 1,103
8 Apr 2010 #697
I think all polish people are simply ashamed to post here, because they realize that their language is simply tracking them down so much.

Nah, we just like to have a good laugh once in a while, reading idiotic comments made by foreigners who have no clue as to what they are talking about. How they would reform the language without even having a basic understanding of it as it is now, a sure signs of delusional mind which can’t cope with the problem at hand. In all honesty it does make you wonder, is it really that difficult? Or are they just too stupid to grasp the concept? Each language has its own beauty, peculiarity and difficulty. It’s like overhearing two art students who barely started their studies yet pretending to be experts at some museum discussing two different artists and styles comparing them to each other while presenting the arguments on how one should be more like the other because each favors the other artist and style, instead of recognizing the fact that each one is unique and appreciating them as they are. I’m enjoying this circus from the sidelines while having a beer and an occasional laugh, thank you very much.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
8 Apr 2010 #698
I think all polish people are simply ashamed to post here, because they realize that their language is simply tracking them down so much.

poland, with a normal language, and not polish, woruld have been 200 years ahead now...

well, you have a point there that many Poles still have a problem with speaking other languages in comparison to other nationalities, but this is changing and the young generation is much more exposed to languages, internet, so I think that it would not take 200 years to be ahead. Then again, what is wrong with the progress that Poland is making right now. Not all the progress is good mind you, but the lack of language skills can drag the country down. To what degree it is difficult to predict.

Polish is a Slavic language and many Poles understand many other Slavic languages, just like English is much better spoken in countries where Germanic languages are native languages- it is just easier since they share a lot of vocab and language structure. Even learning English for an Italian is easier then it is for a Pole.
Exiled 2 | 425
8 Apr 2010 #699
Poland, with a normal language, and not Polish,

Are you some kind of faked in the head?Why is Polish not a normal language and what is a normal language?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Apr 2010 #700
Polish has become normal for me as I've normalised it. I like the challenge of the higher level grammar. Only so much can come 'na czuja/wyczucie' ;)
TIT 5 | 211
8 Apr 2010 #701
can you get this then? 'spadać na palmę liście pompować i banany prostować'? easy peasy Japanese :) ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
8 Apr 2010 #702
Easy peasy Japanesee, actually ;) Yes, I knew that saying 5 years ago, TIT. I wouldn't use palmę there but I'd use tree instead.
Lyzko
8 Apr 2010 #703
If Polish is not a 'normal ' language, then is English a 'normal' language? For a native English speaker of course it is. For anybody else, it isn't because it's not their mother tongue. No language is more 'normal' than one's first language and let noone say different. They're merely guilty of extreme political correctness:-))
Exiled 2 | 425
8 Apr 2010 #704
With slavic languages the good thing is no matter how bad you speak them,you always become understood.I don't know why that happens although I suspect it is due to use of infinitive.
Lyzko
8 Apr 2010 #705
Now that's interesting! I'd always heard the same thing said about English, maybe to justify the rest of the non-English-speaking world's laziness in regard to learning correct English, not merely 'good enough', i.e. if my partner understands me basically, then it must be okay LOL

But what's the bleedin' infinitive (bezokolicznik) got to do with it? Can't quite see that.
Exiled 2 | 425
8 Apr 2010 #706
I don't know.It seems whether you talk in russian,czech,polish or in mix they more or less understand what you want to say if you use some key words.They also help you a lot to learn the language opposite to Germans who do not help at all.
Ahead22
9 Apr 2010 #707
I am sorry, but when in english, for the verb to read, you have

I read
You read...

and so on, just "read"

the past also "read", in all forms, while in Polish...

don't even make me start,,.,

there was a picture posted upstairs... depending on the case, declinations, number, gender,m tense, you have to learn about 300-400 different forms in which you say "read" depending on the case, gender, number, type of action, perfect tense, past , present, etc etc

so you have one word in english: "read" and in polish... about 300-400 words to learn that all of them mean the same "read"

You call this beauty... but all the other 6 billion humans call this "PURE INSANITY"
Exiled 2 | 425
9 Apr 2010 #708
You call this beauty...

It is beauty man.You have to let the Slav grow in you.
MIstrio
9 Apr 2010 #709
so you have one word in english: "read" and in Polish... about 300-400 words to learn that all of them mean the same "read

No wonder Polish was declared to have the weirdest and hardest grammar in the world

That is why there are THOUSANDS of language schools in Poland "to learn English",
and 2-3 bankrupt language schools "to learn Polish"

Polish language is a bankrupt language, and I predict that in less than 200 years, no one will speak it, it will be a dead language, like Latin and like Celtic
Seanus 15 | 19,706
9 Apr 2010 #710
Yes but they are just options that aren't often used by Poles. Poles tend to keep it simple when it comes to language, the same as others really. Much language that exists isn't in free circulation and is thus redundant, possibly to become obsolete in the future.
Polish Tutor - | 80
9 Apr 2010 #711
Ahedas22 is a great example of the western culture impertinence. I am afraid the same way of thinking had people helping worse and not so intelligent brothers in Africa, South /Western America. Try to help us too Ahead22 (-: I know that many foreigners coming to Poland (not all but many) even do not understand that they treat Poland like a postcolonial country. They do respect neither Polish language nor Polish culture at all.

Ahead22, the beauty and normality of English is deep rooted in number of tanks, atom bombs and money English speaking country have. Probably you think that the world is not older than USA but I dare to remind you, that a bit earlier the most powerful languages of the Western world where Greek, Latin (I am sure you realize how many ending this languages have) than French and now English. When China becomes richer and stronger than Western English-speaking world we will start to love Chinese.

You say about the famous simplicity of English. Yes, we writ “read” the same in the past tense but why we pronounce the same word differently, and what about let’s say regularity of Choose chose, pp chosen) ( and what about hundreds of English phrasal verbs , yes and difference between “a” and “the” and your fucked up tense system. On the other hand I will repeat what I usually say: I can teach everybody (average intelligent person without racist prejudices) in between 20-30 teaching hours the most useful Polish grammar rules.

Yes, I can remember, English is natural. Saying about your mother tongue that it is natural you establish your nation as a good. This is pure racism. And I am telling you my sweet dear good fuck you. Take your tanks, money and go home. We had in Poland goods like you over 40 years. You know why? Because you sold us. And not our language is responsible for our slow development but your betrayal. Give us 20 years more, and then we will discuss position of Poland. You can ask also somebody who really knows Poland how much we during last 20 years achieved. Was it slow???????????????

Probably you can buy ticket to each country (I think me too BTW) but the problem is that wherever you go you will see only this what your poor national identity (each national identity is poor Polish too) will you let.

Do not forget it: “The limits of our language mean the limits or our world”. Your world Ahead22 looks very limited to me.

I like to become bigger and bigger my little sweet good. I do not want to be just Polish. That is why I love to teach Polish. You cannot imagine how many foreigners learn Polish with pleasure an success. Intercultural meeting give us opportunity to grow. I wish you such a experience.

Sorry for my rude language but you wrote really stupid thing bro!

MIstrio

Just another racist on the forum.

BTW do you know word resentment. It fits perfectly to many poor Polish language learners.
I repeat it that Polish is fo at least average intelligent person without racist prejudices) (-:

and 2-3 bankrupt language schools "to learn Polish"

Thank you for best wishes to my company (-:
BTW this is an excellent example to present the level of discussion:
Each year more foreigners learn Polish (my company is a good example too) but
language racists will repeat: nobody wants to learn this strange language.

Resentment:
your weak educational system made you unable to meet and learn foreign cultures and languages. And you have to somehow explain to yourself your weakness. I understand.

I even sympathize but I cannot let you to spoil my market guys.

Poor Mistro, poor Ahead22 grapes are to high so it is better to say that they are sour.
Nobody likes to suffer (-:
Ziemowit 13 | 4,204
9 Apr 2010 #712
Ahedas22 is a great example of the western culture impertinence. I am afraid the same way of thinking had people helping worse and not so intelligent brothers in Africa, South /Western America. Try to help us too Ahead22 (-: I know that many foreigners coming to Poland (not all but many) even do not understand that they treat Poland like a postcolonial country. They do respect neither Polish language nor Polish culture at all.

I'm afraid that what you say is unfortunately true. You need no Freudian therapist to discover it once you've visited this forum. With a few exceptions, they just cannot hide the feeling of superiority over everything that is Polish, though some of them really try to hide it. If a Polish person seems to be too "intelligent" to them, some of them will just ignore you, some will openly attack you as in the case of FUZZYWICKETS who made such an attack against me (see post 662 of this thread and my reply to it in post 668). I sometimes have the impression that those who stay in Poland for longer because of business are simply some "exiled" persons who, as ancient employees of "East Indian Company" in India, just long for good old "England" or "Scotland" or "America" or whatever.

The PolishForums.com, despite the true effort of its founders, seem to deter people who would have to say "something" and attract more and more people who have no other interests than Polish girls or who endlessly raise the point of how "stupid" the Polish language is.
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444
9 Apr 2010 #713
your weak educational system made you unable to meet and learn foreign cultures and languages. And you have to somehow explain to yourself your weakness.

good point, I can actually post all the names of the posters who represent such an attitude, but most PF members know who they are anyways.

I'm afraid that what you say is unfortunately true. You need no Freudian therapist to discover it once you've visited this forum.

agree with everything you said:).
Lyzko
9 Apr 2010 #714
German by contrast, I've been told, requires far greater precision to express relatively simple, everyday actions, compared with English, e.g.:

English - I'm TURNING on the light.
I'm TURNING on the faucet.
I'm TURNING off the telly.
I'm TURNING on the radio.

German requires a separate (detachable!!!) verb for almost each action:

Ich MACHE das Licht an.
Ich DREHE den Hahn auf.
Ich SCHALTE den Fernseher ab.
Ich STELLE das Radio an.

Even Polish is more straightforward by comparison. As to German being less 'helpful', I suppose it all depends on the set with whom one'e travelling. The over 50 crowd? Probably German. Under 30? It's a toss up; poor English or native Polish, naturally, vs. NO English at all.

So I guess German might be the only way in certain instances where the interlocutor speaks neither the target language or English.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,453
9 Apr 2010 #715
What's wrong with being exact and precise??? Using the german language might be a reason for the continued success of german inventors and engineers over the centuries...

Just because a language is "easy" doesn't make it better..."easy" is for stupids!
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
9 Apr 2010 #716
Ziemowit wrote:

If a Polish person seems to be too "intelligent" to them, some of them will just ignore you, some will openly attack you as in the case of FUZZYWICKETS who made such an attack against me (see post 662 of this thread and my reply to it in post 668).

and then you can scroll down to post #669 to read my response.

Polish Tutor wrote:

your weak educational system made you unable to meet and learn foreign cultures and languages. And you have to smomehow explain to yourself your weekness. I understand.

first and foremost, you must be joking if you think Poland is the place to meet and learn "foreign cultures". 98% Polish, 99,99999999% white.

secondly, the educational system you speak of, whether it's good or bad in general, they don't push language like it is pushed in Poland because it simply is not a necessity. why spend all that time and money to learn a language you cannot use. i've yet to meet a single American that got hired based on their language abilities.

in Poland, you study foreign languages because you have to. a 25 year old Pole entering the job market with no English, German, French.....your options become veeery limited.

language is a necessity in Poland, in America, it's not even a passing thought for most people.

Polish Tutor wrote:

Each year more foreigners learn Polish

and as a result, more and more people give up shortly after they start learning. I'd hate for my client base to be solely the few brave souls willing to duke it out with Polish grammar till they actually learn it (or an expat like me who is marrying a Polish girl and has a ton of motivation to learn it). It's simply not a dependable client influx, but if Poland continues to get more and more foreign investment, you can hope to still get the fresh off the boat "well, i'm in Poland, maybe i'll take some lessons!" crowd of learners......whereas they quit out of frustration 3 months later and take up English instead because that's what they use at work anyhow.
Lyzko
9 Apr 2010 #717
Bratwurst's technically right about what he says.....if only in the first part. LOL
The issues thus far in this engaging thread seem to be the question of whether language difficulty is relative or absolute, relative to the learner or absolute in the sense of some world committee which judges the hardness vs. ease of certain languages. The second sub-thread has become whether Polish, in this case, is even practical at all considering it's apparently "insurmountable" challenges:-) Yet the third point appears that certain languages are simply more useful/helpful etc.. owing to their vagueness and seeming lack of precision required to "just get by".

Personally, I often regret the laxness of English today, particularly American English, and yearn for the standards of exactness still found in German, French, and yes, Polish as well.

Perhaps this is the reason I dislike so heartily speaking English with most foreigners, most of whom remain content to use English as some kind of dirty dish rag which they can merrily continue to sully with their indifference!!
TruePole
9 Apr 2010 #718
and as a result, more and more people give up shortly after they start learning. I'd hate for my client base to be solely the few brave souls willing to duke it out with Polish grammar till they actually learn it

Yep. In my experience, 95% of brave foreigners who try to learn polish, give up in their FIRST 3 WEEKS of trying, when they reach the huge tables of HUNDREDS of declinations that have to be learned by heart for each polish noun, numeral, verb...

depending on the 7 cases, X tenses, 3 genders, 5 numerals, etc etc etc !!!

Magdalena 3 | 1,837
9 Apr 2010 #719
depending on the 7 cases, X tenses, 3 genders, 5 numerals, etc etc etc !!!

Because no other Slavonic language has inflections, genders, or tenses. And no other language has them either (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, German etc. etc.). And it's perfectly easy to master Chinese or Japanese ideograms - I could do it in a heartbeat. How about Asian languages? I can assure you they have a load of interesting features. Somehow, to some people, English has become a yardstick of what a "normal" language is, while it is, and has been for at least a thousand years, a kind of patois or pidgin, tending to accumulate vocabulary from other languages while simplifying its grammatical structures to the point of invisibility (which makes communication very easy) - a sort of international baby talk, if you will.
Lyzko
9 Apr 2010 #720
Here's the point though. The average Pole scarcely expects the average foreigner learning Polish to memorize those umpteen case endings, aspects blah-blah-blah! The important thing is that the foreigner at least make as valiant an attempt as humanly possible to speak Polish clearly and comprehensibly, authentic-sounding pronunciation, always a plus:-)

As a native English speaker, I hardly expect either that a Pole or any foreigner will use all the tenses correctly, laugh at the right moments in a funny story, pick up on culturally specific anecdotes, phrasal verbs, perfect pronunciation etc.... All I ask, is that they at least try. Sometimes, though rarely, I'm delightedly amazed at what I hear.

Exactly, Magda! By whose yardstick, I'd like to know!! Not mine, I'll say that much, even though it is my first language.
Face it, most people have become far too ethnocentric.

Don't you agree?


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