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Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D


johnny reb 36 | 7,447
7 Feb 2016 #1,531
I often struggle with English on this forum searching for proper word(s) or expression(s).

Would a Polish Thesaurus help you out ?
You could then cross reference the Polish word(s) with the English word(s) that have several meanings being the same.
This will give you several options of words to use for a particular one so you can pick the proper one that fits best.
Or use an English Thesaurus and translate those words into Polish meanings.
merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/polish
Does anyone know of a thesaurus that converts Polish words to similar English words ?

Someone said my English is stiff or something.

Zmoe, your proper English is much better then most college graduates in America.
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
8 Feb 2016 #1,532
Often times though, a thesaurus cannot realistically provide all the myriad possibilities for productive verbal aspects in Polish. While such a volume can indeed be helpful for listing synonyms, apart from that, its usefulness is frequently limited, at least in my experience.

@its'me,

What you and certain others fail to acknowledge is that translations or definitions may vary, except of course where the "meaning" is cut-and-dried, e.g. kapelusz = hat, góra = mountain etc....

"Pomieszkiwać" can indeed mean to live somewhere for a long, long time, since "pomieszkać" > "mieszkać" means "to dwell for a while".

Don't think I can be cowed into submission. I put up a mean fight and play to win!!!
Atch 17 | 4,043
8 Feb 2016 #1,533
Often times

Lyzko I really must share this with you. When I was in secondary school in Ireland I had a wonderful English teacher, beloved by us all, a great lady with a very, dry sardonic outlook on life. There were some aspects of Hiberno-English which really galled her and 'often times' was on of her pet hates. Anyway I well remember the day she informed us 'Girls, Irish people have a regrettable tendency to use the expression 'often times'. This is incorrect. The word 'often' stands alone and does not require the addition of 'times' as time is implied in itself by the use of the word 'often'. Lyzko, do you have Irish blood by any chance......
Ziemowit 13 | 4,352
8 Feb 2016 #1,534
"Pomieszkiwać" can indeed mean to live somewhere for a long, long time, since "pomieszkać" > "mieszkać" means "to dwell for a while".

Et voilà ! This very precise answer has been given in the PWN on-line dictionary:
1. pomieszkiwać «mieszkać gdzieś nie na stałe» (to dwell but not on a permanent basis)
2. pomieszkać a. «mieszkać gdzieś przez jakiś czas» (to dwell for a while)
[b. potocznie «spędzić jakiś czas w domu, nie wyjeżdżając lub niewiele wychodząc»]

Irish people have a regrettable tendency to use the expression 'often times'. This is incorrect.

Maybe there exist a similar expression in Irish Gaelic which the Irish people transferred into English?
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
8 Feb 2016 #1,535
Begorrah! Was that himself who wrote that message?

TanksLOL

Appreciate the reference as well. And to answer your question, no, I've not the slightest bit of Celtic background, just Teutonic:-)
Atch 17 | 4,043
9 Feb 2016 #1,536
a similar expression in Irish Gaelic which the Irish people transferred into English?

That's a very good point Ziemowit and you're close enough to the mark as indeed that's often the case in Hiberno-English. 'Oftentimes' is not so much incorrect as an archaism, many of which are still found in Irish speech. You know how the word 'oft' was used and sometimes expressed as 'oft times'. It morphed into 'often times' and the Irish continued using it in that form.

Was that himself who wrote that message?

Indeed and twas 'herself' if it be pleasin' you kind sir and me a lovely colleen and all and all.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Feb 2016 #1,537
Hiberno-English

What is the general Irish attitude towards Gaelicisms in spoken English? Pride-instilling as somethign of our own? Nice and quaint? Outdated? Substandard and frowned upon? Indifference? Something else?
Atch 17 | 4,043
9 Feb 2016 #1,538
The average person doesn't think about it much, if at all, it's just so natural to them. But if you were to ask them to consider it though, I'd say Irish people love their Hiberno-English. It's so richly expressive and of course there's such a great Anglo-Irish literary tradition. It definitely wouldn't be seen as 'sub-standard' or something to be frowned upon. It's found at all levels of society and each part of the country has its own regional variations quite apart from the general usages common to all. It's a very important part of Irish cultural identity.
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
10 Feb 2016 #1,539
Atch, now here's a question for you. Do you think on a sliding scale of difficulty that Irish aka Erse (Irish Gaelic) is comparable in "difficulty" with Polish? Celtic languages have a reputation for a fiercely chaotic phonology and many morphological mutations, e.g. Welsh as well as a phonetic disconnect for Anglo-Saxon speakers, making it nearly impossible for us non-Irish to correctly pronounce the language without much practice, for instance "Slante!", the first name "Siobbhan" etc. So too Polish.

How do you feel about such a comparison?
Atch 17 | 4,043
4 Mar 2016 #1,540
Hi Lyzko, just noticed your question now.

I suppose it's a bit hard for me to be objective about it. I started learning Irish when I was three and it feels so natural to me now. Also I always had a feel for the pronunciation. The interesting thing about Irish is that of course most Irish people have to learn it as they would any foreign language and as far as pronunciation goes, yes Irish people actually struggle to say those sounds! It doesn't come naturally just because they're Irish. Many people who speak Irish quite fluently don't have what's known as the 'blas', very hard to explain but it's an authenticity in pronunciation that is usually confined to native speakers from the Gaeltacht areas. For example, if you ever heard our former Taosieach Bertie Aherne speaking Irish he does it with a Dublin accent which just doesn't sound right. On the other hand my brother-in-law is American and he learned Irish in Donegal from native speakers and his accent is much better than Bertie's!

But yes, it's a difficult language, definitely comparable in difficulty to Polish. I've met a few people who've learned Welsh, then tried Irish and found it much harder. Irish grammar is difficult and like German, the sentences can be of an interminable length. Also of course it's not phonetic and it's very difficult to learn how to read in Irish. So hope that's of some help to you!
Zlatko
4 Jul 2020 #1,541
I find Polish easier to read. Apart from scientific research who cares much about grammar anyway? You could still make some semi-correct phrase in Polish as words are generally shorter.

German on the other hand has the stupid inversion and wrong word order (verb at the end, really makes no sense).

And longer words that look like random letters: Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän
What the actual hell?!

Btw the future languages of France and Germany might be Arabic or Turkish.
123jnh
28 May 2021 #1,542
Polish is impossible for non-Slavic speakers to learn, I tried a few months ago and gave up after two weeks.
GefreiterKania 11 | 1,495
28 May 2021 #1,543
Polish is impossible for non-Slavic speakers to learn

Well, I've heard a German DSD teacher delivering a speech in (almost) perfect Polish to her students, to congratulate them on getting the diploma, so it's hard but not impossible. :)
pawian 190 | 19,155
28 May 2021 #1,544
Polish is impossible for non-Slavic speakers to learn,

It also works the other way round. I know people who spent a few years trying to learn English with deplorable results. Their Slavic mind isn`t able to grasp a Germanic language system.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 12,973
28 May 2021 #1,545
I dunno.....the Slavs in Germany are rethorically quite undistinguishable (what a word!) from the rest....
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
28 May 2021 #1,546
NO language has a monopoly on difficulty! English is labeled as "easy", while to communicate both correctly as well as coherently (much less completely idiomatically) among most Europeans,, seems but a Sissyphussian task, save for all but the rarest of prodigies. A bit of the proverbial double standard once again-:)
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
28 May 2021 #1,548
I think we all know to whom I'm referring, B.B.LOL
GefreiterKania 11 | 1,495
29 May 2021 #1,549
English is labeled as "easy"

Well, I suppose it's the lack of complicated declension system and grammatical gender that makes English easier to learn up to, let's say, B2 level (C1 and C2 levels are a completely different matter). That's why it is the most popular international language. It would take significantly more time for most people in the world to achieve anything close to B2 in German, Polish, French or Japanese.
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
29 May 2021 #1,550
Ck. out the sophisticated dialogue from classic Hollywood movies for ORDINARY Americans in the '4O's through the 6O's and tell me English is so simple. Our morphology may be transparent, our lexic and idiom?? Don't think so-:) Forget about tour orthography.
GefreiterKania 11 | 1,495
29 May 2021 #1,551
Hollywood movies? I can read sophisticated dialogue from 17th century Shakespeare's dramas and understand most of it. :) Face it, Lyzko, English IS easy. No other language in the world is anywhere near angielszczyzna in terms of relative effortlessness when it comes to learning it up to, more or less, B2 level.

Mind you, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Creating a language that is both simple and yet able to express complex ideas is no simple feat. Well done, English-speaking nations! Thank you for giving us this useful (and simple) tool to communicate. :)
mafketis 34 | 12,228
29 May 2021 #1,552
I can read sophisticated dialogue from 17th century Shakespeare's dramas and understand most of it. :)

That's weird since a very large percentage of native speakers can do no such thing.... I remember being tortured with Shakespeare in high school and having to read dialogue that no one in class could understand.... at least when they showed us films of Shakespeare scenes we could follow the action. Shakespeare is a cult. It takes about 50 or so years after Shakespeare for the language to settle into something modern speakers can understand.

English has very few barriers to entry early on. But ease of entry tends to coincide with greater barriers later on (general rule of second language acquisition - early beginnings coincide with later frustration).

Lots of people can get to B1 or B2 but that's not what most employers want.... (according to David Graddol who actually surveyed the issue).

And very few (comparatively) make it to C1 or C2 (let alone beyond).
GefreiterKania 11 | 1,495
29 May 2021 #1,553
That's weird since a very large percentage of native speakers can do no such thing

Well, I suppose it's a question of my superior intelligence (matched only by my good looks and manners).

Lots of people can get to B1 or B2 but that's not what most employers want

Language is a communication tool, so the point is to communicate - get the ball over the net, not woo people with your smooth phrases and sophisticated idiom. Most employers understand that; those who expect native-like fluency from foreigners will inevitably be disappointed.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
29 May 2021 #1,554
That's weird since

I had a go and with all those thy and hath I got it in 50 maybe 47% .. original is not for people of today to read and enjoy.
Lenka 3 | 2,774
29 May 2021 #1,555
English has very few barriers to entry early on. But ease of entry tends to coincide with greater barriers later on

That is what my English teacher once said comparing English and German:
English is easy at first and then it becomes hard. German start very hard but then it's much easier.

but that's not what most employers want....

In my experiencea lot of employers are quite clueless about what they need ( Poland was very bad in that respect)

And very few (comparatively) make it to C1 or C2

True but usually there is not much need.
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
29 May 2021 #1,556
Communication also consists technically of burps and flatulence, but what then separates us from the four-legged variety of animal? I find Polish infinitely more consistent than English spelling..any day!
Lenka 3 | 2,774
29 May 2021 #1,557
what then separates us from the four-legged variety of animal?

Our thinking process?
I remember being taught that the real accomplishment is to make your language cleaner, simpler and clearer even if talking about complicated things.
Lyzko 34 | 8,321
29 May 2021 #1,558
Clarity needn't be infantile, Lenka.


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