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Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D


poganin - | 58
4 Feb 2016 #1,471
But, yes, BACK TO POLISH FINALLY

Your Polish is truly horrible (I know your broken Polish) and I can say with all confidence that it is no match for the English of many Polish speakers here on this forum and outside of it, so I would suggest you do no limit your shortcomings to just inability to count - don't be funny.

You are partially bit not quite right about problems Polish speakers face with English.Tenses are a problem but have in most cases have clearly defined rules as in "I do" - statement about doing something on regular basis in contrast to "I am doing" - statement about doing something at this very moment, this is not difficult to learn and most Polish know the difference. While less clear distinction between "I would' and "I would have" or "I have" and "I have had" there comes some difficulty. Articles are the least difficult with definite article like "the" denoting the specific subject matter (a noun) and the indefinite one "a" being the more general one, while "an" (another indefinite article) occurs before a bowel, this is all not difficult. Prepositions are the ones most difficult as these have to be learned mostly by experience, there is no clear rule to them. I would also add to the list the irregularity of English spelling as a category in English gramma that poses difficulty for Polish speakers.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,828
4 Feb 2016 #1,472
"I am doing" - statement about doing something at this very moment,

really? Personally I never walk down the street shouting 'I am walking' and when I light a cig I don't shout out 'I am smoking'.

so you might want to think about that one again, Poggy.

Also there is a big difference between saying 'I am going tothe/a/ zero articlehospital/school/prison/university. Can you think what it is?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
4 Feb 2016 #1,473
Such a shame that this boy went to considerable trouble learning the language of those he hates, only to use it to talk rubbish on the internet. Good luck with the bowels, anyway.
poganin - | 58
4 Feb 2016 #1,474
Personally I never walk down the street shouting 'I am walking' and when I light a cig I don't shout out 'I am smoking'.

Are you naturally stupid or just being stupid (are you getting a feel for it now?)? Anyone feel free to explain to this English speaker his language because a foreigner just did but he did not get it such is a level here. When someone asks you, while you are walking down the street as to what you are doing you answer: "I am walking" you do not answer: "I walk". Now do you understand?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,828
4 Feb 2016 #1,475
yes but if I was walking down the street, Poggy, why would someone come up to me and ask me what I was doing?

the answer is, they wouldn't.

that is why the present continuous is not really a tense to describe what is happening at this minute, whatever your half arsed English 'teacher' might have told you.

It is used to talk about the future, and things that are happening around now. (eg 'I am going to Germany next week" "I am reading a really good book" - now that doesn't mean that you have the book in your hand does it?)

Hope this helps.

You are not an 'English speaker' btw, if indeed that is what you meant.
mafketis 24 | 8,908
4 Feb 2016 #1,476
that is why the present continuous is not really a tense to describe what is happening at this minute

My general rule, the present continuous describes events or processes that have an end point but which have not yet ended.

I'm reading an interesting book. (I've started but haven't finished)

I'm living in Brokesville now. (it's a temporary situation and I'll probably move)

I'm meeting George next week. (we haven't met yet).

What's interesting is that English doesn't have a clear equivalent of the simple present tense as it appears in almost all other European languages, as the English simple present is more gnomic or habitual tense, describing general things that happen more than once or that are generally true.

I read detective novels.

I live in Brokesville.

I meet George every Tuesday for coffee.

An underestimated difficulty for European learners is knowing what to do when they're thinking of their own simple present tense...
poganin - | 58
4 Feb 2016 #1,477
@rozumiemnic

You must be British, I will explain it to you clearly so you understand. Present continuous is a tense that describes what one is doing at the present time or what one is going to do in a very near future based on current activity or evidence. The phrase: "I am going to Germany next week" does express intention based on present evidence, there has to be some readiness to take trip to Germany (purchaed tickets or packed bags) so the "I am going" is forever attached to the present moment, it starts or continues right at this moment. The expression "I am walking" is part of present continuous tense that describes the current moment, the person asking the question: "What are you doing?" may not see that someone is currently walking, both parties may be talking on the phone, so the question is quite valid as is the answer. Also, it is not about what is logical, it is about the principle of English grammar, it does not have to be logical - the fact remains that one is walking down the street and it is legitimate to use this description to paint a picture of what is happening at the time. You have taken one item out of context and you pinned onto the entire present continuous tense.

In contrast, in Polish, while tenses are simpler each verb featured in them splits in two main forms and then into further forms comprising between 70 to 85.
Atch 17 | 3,314
4 Feb 2016 #1,478
You think confronting Polish person will be easier

Ziemowit is Polish, Poggy (isn't that a lovely diminutive for your name? See, we have them in English too). I've had a few disagreements with Ziemikins over the last year but he's a thoroughly decent chap and I'm very fond of him.

you feel you are above us

Why would I think that? Answer on A4 lined paper by tea time Friday please, at least two pages.

By the way you're doing quite well with your English, far better than I ever will with Polish, I'm sure of that. You just have to work on your social skills now.
mafketis 24 | 8,908
4 Feb 2016 #1,479
Present continuous is a tense that describes

My description (single process/event that hasn't ended yet but will) is a lot simpler and covers about 98% of the usage with bothering with stuff about present intent and the like.

(you would probably faint at my descriptions of Polish but they're effective).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,828
4 Feb 2016 #1,480
" You must be British, I will explain it to you clearly so you understand. Present continuous is a tense that describes what one is doing at the present time or what one is going to do in a very near future based on current activity or evidence. "

You will find that most of the time, the present continuous is used to talk about definite future plans, as is indeed the "simple present'.

At least Maf has thought about it and is ready for a normal kind of friendly discussion.
Yes I am ~British , that is why I know English so well...:):)

next time you are walking down the street or picking your nose, Poggy, shout it out. "I AM PICKING MY NOSE".
because that is what we use the 'present continuous ' for isnt it?
Lyzko 25 | 7,016
4 Feb 2016 #1,481
@Poganin and Ironside, as Poles, neither of you two should even attempt to compare, that is, judge the English of an educated native speaker; you both will fail HANDS DOWN!!!

As regards my Polish, it is better than that of most US-Polish speakers and despite errors, is comparable with the attempts of Polish English learners to communicate in English, if not fluently, then at least accurately:-)

English should once again not be evaluated by Polish standards.
Chemikiem 6 | 2,333
4 Feb 2016 #1,482
Articles are the least difficult

Maybe for you but if you read through posts by the Poles on this forum, many of them have not grasped how to use articles correctly, and this also applies to those who I consider to have a very good standard of English. What might be easy for you is not for others, and articles seem to be one aspect of grammar Poles do find problematic.
Ironside 49 | 10,636
4 Feb 2016 #1,483
Ironside, as Poles, neither of you two should even attempt to compare, that is, judge the English of an educated native speaker;

Don't tell my what I should or shouldn't. You are being rude and obnoxious. I can judge your English all right, if you don't like it sue me or keep your silly prejudices to yourself.
dolnoslask
4 Feb 2016 #1,484
Ironside, don't worry there is nowt wrong withe your English, nobody ever made any real money out of speaking a language properly, best to have a knowledge of many rather than to be expert at one.
Ironside 49 | 10,636
4 Feb 2016 #1,485
Ironside, don't worry

I'm not worrying. I think I have a very realistic approach to that subject. Thing is some people here seem to have issues.
dolnoslask
4 Feb 2016 #1,486
"Thing is some people here seem to have issues" well i think that many here are English teachers so they tend to focus on their area of expertise, this thread is perfect platform to bring the worst and the best out of them, for me the hardest language to learn was not Polish but the language i needed to get on with my job of work, I once thought that my polish would be a stepping stone to learn Russian so I volunteered to get involved, I was so wrong however hard i tried I just couldn't get to conversation level.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
5 Feb 2016 #1,487
Of course, NON natives of ANY language do always make mistakes NATIVES of ANY language don't do ;) but let's face it, being criticized by MONOlingual speakers is really something else! To talk about myself, I used to speak English much better when I was young and lived in America (and also learnt 2 other languages (German and Italian) while in school but for sure very rusty as it was almost .... centuries ago) but so what? Anyway, I doubt that any English native speaker (in PF or elsewhere) can speak ANY other language the way we non English natives here do speak/write English ;). Let's check (wih no help, no dictionary, no grammar book...)! ;). "lol"
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,488
I doubt that any English native speaker (in PF or elsewhere) can speak ANY other language the way we non English natives here do speak/write English ;).

Are you for real?? You actually believe that nobody in Britain, Ireland, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, can speak another language to your level of English. What an utterly daft thing to say - because do bear in mind you said 'any'. So let's just dismiss all those English speakers who've passed proficiency exams in other languages or who work as translators or interpreters. I know at least three English people with extremely fluent, idiomatic, colloquial French. One of them was educated at the Lycee (can't do the diacritics on this keyboard) in Notting Hill in London, lived in Switzerland for years and now lives in France. My own sister is a very fluent speaker (she lived in France) and her German is native level (she's a translator). I have two cousins working in Brussels and another living in Paris. How do you think they manage? 'Mais oui, ma petite, but bien sur their French or German weel be but oh so pedestrian compared to my fabulous Eeenglish which is of the most fantastique'. InPolska: specialised subject Me, Me, Me, Myself and my general Wonderfulness.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
5 Feb 2016 #1,489
@Atch: sure SOME do but I'm talking about THE English speakers in POLISHFORA who happen to be MONOlingual but nevertheless criticize non English natives ;). What about you, what languages have you learnt and what levels have you reached? Do you have a C1 or C2 level in any foreign language? ;)
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,490
What about you, what languages have you learnt and what levels have you reached?

I answered that question yesterday at 9.56, post no 1,472. You'll enjoy it. I wax lyrical about Jean Ferrat amongst others. Ah la belle France!
I didn't bother to mention Irish but of course I had fourteen years of that in school. I'm not at all fluent, very rusty I but I could have a bit of a chat as Gaeilge with correct grammar.
poganin - | 58
5 Feb 2016 #1,491
English should once again not be evaluated by Polish standards.

Some standards apply to both languages, next time you write make sure to include at least one verb when constructing a sentence.

[quote=Atch]This is part of your hoity-toity nonsense that doesn't endear you to other members. I think that's upper-intermediate to advanced level, is that right? Firstly I would say that you don't need that level to have an idea of how easy/difficult a language is. Once you get beyond basic level in any language, and you have a modicum of intelligence/common sense, you can see what's stretching before you. If it makes you feel as if you need to go and have a lie down then you know where you are in terms of difficulty.

InPolska made a valid point about certified documentation, what you did in school is not that relevant (in Poland we all do that in primary school - foreign languages are part of the curriculum), show us that you posses adequate expertise (thoroughly substantiated) to pass judgement in any area of English language which you claim to know well enough to assess its mastery in the writings of others on this forum, especially texts of non-English speakers. What is most laughable is that you pick on Polish speakers here for making trivial mistakes in English and you are yet to produce one word in Polish. Why don't you start communicating here in Polish (in the off-topic section); if you have the audacity to be so trivial and picky towards Polish people then you show us Polish what you can do in our language, for otherwise, it is as if you can dish it out but you can't take it, if that's the case then DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS IF YOU ARE INCOMPETENT YOURSELF!
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,492
Oh Poggy, Poggy, Poggy, my dear child. At a quick glance there are three verbs in Lyzko's sentence.

primary school

You mean skoła podstawowa?? That's weird. Don't you mean secondary school?

you pick on Polish speakers here for making trivial mistakes in English

I don't. I don't generally comment on the language skills of anyone on this forum. Ironside and I are now established sparring partners and being Irish, I have to give him a bit of a roasting at times. His English is great. One of the interesting things about speakers of English as a second or foreign language is the variety of styles they have and as a matter of fact it's the flexibility of English that very much allows for the formal or informal style of expression. Ziemowit has a charming slightly old world way of talking, Ironside is much more colloquial and coloured by his years spent amongst native English speakers. If they were on horseback Ziemowit would be wearing hunting pinks and cantering, and Ironside would be bareback and galloping. As for yourself, you'd be red in the face, huffing and puffing, struggling with the reins as though they were a set of bagpipes and would probably would never make it out of the stable yard.

if you have the audacity

Oh I have plenty of that alright.

English language which you claim to know well enough to assess its mastery

Whether you like it or not Poggy, an educated native speaker of English (or indeed any language) will be accepted as an 'expert' in its use.

you can dish it out but you can't take it

Hackneyed old phrase that, but hey my man, bring it bro! Ah the language of the streets...........
poganin - | 58
5 Feb 2016 #1,493
At a quick glance there are three verbs in Lyzko's sentence.

I'm not referring to those comments of his, he knows which sentence I'm writing about.

That's weird. Don't you mean secondary school?

I think I know what schools teach what in Poland or you know better? Common teach me then, go ahead, show me how you know better, are you game enough? Yes, it's primary school (szkola podstawowa).
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,494
skoła

szkola

Actually do you know what's really funny? We both spelled szkoła incorrectly!! Isn't life wonderful Poggy? One should never take it too seriously.

As to what they teach in Polish primary schools:

what you did in school is not that relevant (in Poland we all do that in primary school -

You don't learn a foreign language in Polish primary school to the level where you could study it at university. You do learn that in a secondary school.
poganin - | 58
5 Feb 2016 #1,495
We both spelled szkoła incorrectly!!

No, only you spelled it wrongly, I do not have the required letter "ł" on my keyboard, hence the form, that is all, you are trying everything you can.

I was not referring to university level but your level of language skills.
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,496
you are trying everything you can.

Everything I can to......do what exactly? By the way how come you don't have the right keyboard for writing Polish when you're Polish? Doesn't that make life difficult?
jon357 63 | 15,677
5 Feb 2016 #1,497
I do not have the required letter "ł" on my keyboar

You have it right here on this forum, just ąbóvę thę yęłłów bóx yóu typę iń, Póggęrs.
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,498
Yes I wondered why he didn't use that facility but as I've often said I'm not a techno person so I thought maybe your keyboard had to be set up a certain way to avail of it. All I know is that my keyboard is just a regular 'English' one but you can do the Polish characters here on the forum using the Polish letters provided.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,273
5 Feb 2016 #1,499
One of them was educated at the Lycee (can't do the diacritics on this keyboard)

You can quickly do the é which is perhaps the most frequent diacritic of French. Holding down the left "Alt" press "130". Lycée! With this one only you will achieve a much better visibility of the French text. For the cedille it is Alt + 135 - comme ça!
Atch 17 | 3,314
5 Feb 2016 #1,500
Lycée - yippee!!

Thank you so much Ziemusz. Yo sho nuff is da man!


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