Real Estate / Has the Poland real estate bubble popped? [12]


So you are back to using this name Mark?.......well you are only a year out on your prediction so there is still plenty of time. I was wondering if you actually write letters to the Warsaw Business Journal to tell them what liars they are? You do read financial journals, don't you?

Real Estate / Apartments too expensive for Poles living in Poland [54]

I agree, and, if you don't meet this criteria, you sleep on the street or rent. There must be millions of Poles sleeping rough then?. There arn't?, why?

Real Estate / Apartments too expensive for Poles living in Poland [54]


Then get ready for a lot more government handouts!!!!
The is going to be a new EU law/regulation that will force EU countries with substandard housing to build more social housing, especially in rural areas that have been ignored in the past.

Follow the link below. I personally think that this is a good idea.

europarl.europa.eu/oeil/FindByProcnum.do?lang=en&procnum=CO D/2009/0105

I hate the EU with a vengance, but this is one of the better policies and it should be implemented as quickly as possible.
As SeanBM states, there is plenty of land within a 30 min drive from the centre of the cities and with the new infastructure being built, it should be possible to buy a new apartment or house from around 2,500-3,000 PLN m2


Nothing wrong with this if you have enough space, or, perhaps as the parents get older, they should put them in a nursing home for £3,000.00. a month, just like the UK, and if they have no money or assets that the government can make them sell, they would still end up in a home at the taxpayers expense.

What is so wrong about looking after the people who gave you life and kept you until you reached adulthood. Thats one of the reasons I love the Polish people so much, the respect that they give to their elders. The family is everything, not a burden to bear.


Exactly as I have said in previous posts. Built during communist times to a very poor standard.
What happens when these "concrete blocks" have to be replaced?
I do not have the answer to these problems, but, I know that "wishing" does not solve them.

Love / WHY DO POLISH MEN LIE? [150]

You can always tell when Polish men are lying. Their lips move.

Law / I have to fix Karta Pobytu for EU citizens [20]

I had the 5 year residence permit which ran out December. Applied to Krakow for permanent residence (office is at Ul.Ronda 6, which is not mentioned on the government website).

Filled in the forms (downloaded online) in Polish, sent reference letter from local mayor, had to get Zamedlowanie from local office as my address on the residence card is the same, but, they would not believe me. Sent 5 photo's (which they lost), another copy of my passport (which is exactly the same as the one they took a copy of 5 years ago). No fee is mentioned on the website so added a note explaining this and to let me know if there was a fee so I could transfer it.

Two weeks later they replied that I had to attend in person. I explained that it does not say this on the website and that I was told on the phone to "send" these documents.

I refused to go to Krakow so they agreed to let me take the documents to a local office in Tarnow (why they did not let me do this in the first place is beyond my comprehension).

A week later 2 policemen came to the house, looked at my details and informed me that my 5 year residence permit had expired, after explaining that I could live anywhere in the EU without a permit and that Polish people in the UK did not get issued with them. they told me that their job was to see if I was a risk to state security, which is a bit late after 6 years. This was about a month ago. So all in all, I am expecting to hear something in April but I am not going to hold my breath while I'm waiting.

I love this country.

Real Estate / How are Poland's properties priced? [51]


I find this post interesting. Its not just how properties are valued.
I was looking at some Polish property websites the other day and decided to play around with their "mortgage calculators", it seemed on average that to buy a house or apartment in the region of 300,000 PLN, the maximum they would lend you was 154,000 PLN, only 50% of the cost.

My conclusion was that the banks are still unwilling to take even the minutist risk at all.
This Summer, the EU Banks, UK and USA are supposed to be coming up with proposals to regulate all banks. This will involve, setting a limit to the amounts of liquidity that these banks have to hold at all times to protect them from any future crises.

The percentage of ther liquidity has still not been decided so in the meantime, the banks are only investing in government bonds and increasing the interest rates to existing customers to build up as much cash as possible to make sure that they have adequate reserves to meet any regulations that may be brought in.

A prime example of this is the UK. Many billions of pounds of tax payers money was used to bail out the Royal Bank of Scotland and yet this bank is constantly being criticised for failing to lend to small business's, despite so called pressure from the British government which holds a 70% stake in the bank.

A large number of small business's in the UK who have never been in trouble financially are now having their overdraft facilities withdrawn or having to pay ursuary rates of interest on exisitng loans. The UK government bleats on about "recovery" and as usual, does nothing.

The banks do not seem interested in long term loans, they are so used to making huge amounts in the short term. Credit cards at 26% interest, small loan amounts ie:3,000 - 10,000 PLN and paying huge bonus's and dividents to their shareholders, that, they seem to have lost the plot about what the banks are there for.

Everyone now has to pay for the irresponsible lending/greed of these banks and indeed, to a certain extent, irresponsible borrowers. But, if you offer large amounts of money to people, without checking carefully on their ability to repay, defaults are bound to happen.

The value of property will be governed by the ability to borrow and the supply and demand.

News / Can a Polish person give up EU handouts? [15]

I never thought I would agree with you RN

This morning I watched a tv reporter interviewing some farmers in Central France who were complaining that their subsidies from the EU had been lowered and that they were all going bankrupt.

This brought back to mind a sequence of events from last Summer.

July 2009........EU commission decides that France has illegally claimed 500 million Euros in subsidies for its farmers and fruit growers, going back to 2002. French government admits this.

It askes France to pay this money back with interest. French government goes back to the farmers and tells them they have to pay the money back. French farmers tell the government to fek off.

EU commission tells French government that money must be repaid by September, when this does not happen they extend the deadline until January 2010

Sept/Oct 2009.....Sarkosy spends 90 million euros on swine flue injections of which only 5 million is actually used.

Feb 2010...After Haiti earthquake, Sarkosy visits and cancels Haitian debt of 53 million euros and promises aid of 326 million euros.

By my calculations, France is still 41 million euros up on the deal and its countries like the UK who are paying in 43 million pounds per day into the EU coffers who have to fund this.

I have no problem with giving aid to the Haitians, but I wish the French would use their own money for once.

Real Estate / How are Poland's properties priced? [51]


No. What the banker is saying is that "why should I pay security guards to look after the house, pay city/state land taxes, renovate the house before I can sell it, when all I have to do is write it off as a bad debt and claim tax relief/TARP funds and get my money back from the taxpayer"

Real Estate / How are Poland's properties priced? [51]

mulsie

I agree with most of your post but if development in smaller towns and rural areas is not carried out it will lead to many of the younger workers moving to the larger cities, thus exasperating the problem.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


There are builders and then there are builders. The foundations I put in for my two story apartments are much better than the standard used in the UK. There, they use a "trench fill" with a 600mm wide by 225mm depth of concrete. I am happy to give a 10 year guarantee on the structure, no problem.

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Real Estate / How are Poland's properties priced? [51]


My flats are priced at 2,900 - 3,500 PLN m2. They are not in Krakow. They are at the moment an hours drive from Krakow. The new motorway will be a 2 minute drive away (completion 2011) and then the journey will take about 30 mins. There is a communial garden, external storage sheds for bikes/skis, 2 parking spaces for each flat, all fenced in with remote contol gates and security lighting.

Try getting that in Krakow.

What the fcuk do I know about pricing in Poland, I'm just a rip of developer, according to Mark Biernat.

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Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]

No offence taken Convex. I was a member of the Federation of Master Builders for over 30 years.
I know all about "cowboy builders".

News / Will todays tragedy effect the economy of Poland? [34]

I am touched that your thoughts are of the economy, rather than the dead and the relatives that are left to mourne. I suppose that business is business, you should fit in well if you are thinking of investing in Poland. Perhaps you can set up a chain of shops selling plastic figurines of the ex-president of maybe even scarves to sell to the football fans.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


Warsaw Business Journal

Rebuilding demand

26th April 2010
Banks are increasingly active in home lending, but continuing restrictions on project loans mean that developers are having trouble keeping up with demand

Max 100 words + URL

If you read the above artical and recall my posts, warning that the banks witholding funds from developers would cause a shortage, which, will push prices back up. It is not in the Banks interest to have mortgages with negative equity, thus they and the developers will control the prices.

I fully expect to hear replies that developers will still be building and selling properties for 50% of the cost of building them, this has not happened yet. Perhaps Milky can explain to you all why property prices in the UK have risen by 10% over the past year compared to 2007 prices. (1.2% in the past month) Perhaps this means the the British property sellers have the same attitude as the Polish sellers?

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


Where did I imply that the British would be coming to buy properties in Poland?. I only posted a report from the Warsaw Business Journal and stated that prices in the UK were on the way up. Whether this will continue or there is going to be another correction in prices, I would not care to guess. I personally don't give a s**t who buys the properties. Just stating the facts as they are reported.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


Exactly the same has happened in the UK, water, electricity, gas and even waste collection is all owned by foriegn companies. Prices for the above utilities have increased by some 50% over the past 4 years and the government has no control over what is charged, is is not just Poland that is suffering. You have to question any government that would sell off a nations assets that are needed for the basic survival of its people.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]

milkyThreads: -
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 26, 09
Gender: Male
Mar 14, 10, 21:03 / #6


Well, you have waited a year now, has the price of property dropped 50%?. Have you bought a property in Poland?. Nobody is being dilusional, its just that we have not seen the crash that you have. Perhaps you can provide some facts to back up your statements.


How can these companies lose money?, they have a monopoly and a captive consumer market.
If you do not pay their asking price, where else can you go?

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]

Milky, who are you calling a "straw man" you dumb mick. What do you know about Poland?, do you live here? Again, I ask you to provide links/facts that prices will crash 50% in Poland. You asked a "complex question", but, you did not get the answer you wanted to hear. You are the one who believes what the doom mongers like polsky predicted. You were on these threads last year, are you angry because it still has not happened?

Below is information provided by the Nationwide Building society, who, to the best of my knowledge do not print newspapers.


The prices are not what people are asking. They are taken from the records of HMCR stamp duty and land registry information on property sold (not being sold).

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


Did you really understand what majatek had posted? He is not talking about "normal housing" to live in, he is referring to what would be regarded as palaces and mansions with a lot of land, not, the type of properties that you and milky seem to think are overpriced, you are talking about a home for yourselves to bring up a family, he is talking about pure investment. Any price will be "too much" for him as he wants to maximise his profits when he sells on. Are you and milky looking to buy a house or apartment with sitting tenants?

majatek

"Every pile of rubble is now described as having the potential to become a hotel, sauna, health spa etc - and what appears to be a favourite, that you could breed race horses there! And, of course, these 'wonderful business opportunities' (piles of rubble) have prices to match - anything up to eight million zloty!!!!"

"And then there are the sitting tenants!"

"The fact that you are the new OWNER of the 'big house' will class you as the latest in a long line of capitalist oppressors!"

"The historic buildings konservator will also see you as a rich uncle."

Real Estate / Buying/Building a house in Poland/Wroclaw metro area [12]


How long is a piece of string?. Renovation work is always a lot more expensive than new build and with a house that is 80 years old it can be an absolute "bottomless pit". Before you even start on the shell, you will need to check the foundations (if there are any), roof/floor timbers, electric and plumbing and external drainage. If you are talking about a complete refurbishment then it may be cheaper to knock it down and start again.

Spend a little money on a full survey before you contemplate buying, it could save you a fortune.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


And you still fail to provide any links or proof of what you say.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]

milky

You listen to your friend "Polsky", don't buy anything. Live in a tent, a cave, a forest or on the beach. Nobody cares. Better still, you can surely afford 500 PLN a m2, build you fekin own and get that idiot Polsky (M.Biernat) to move in with you.

I will pass your advice on to the couple that bought one of my flats over the weekend, we sign the contract on the 11th May. I advised them that they ought to wait for the prices to drop 50% but for some strange reason, they insist on buying now, still, it takes all sorts.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]

Thank you WB. At least you you know something about property. Have you noticed that Mark Biernat is back again, he has dropped his building cost down to 500 PLN m2 now, what a pratt.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]

milky
Apr 30, 10, 12:15 / #201
A mate of mine who is a journalist for a local newspaper in the lovely land of saints and scholars told me that sponsors for the paper would pull out if they printed the facts about the property bubble bursting. So they all went along with the scam and only printed lies to maintain the illusion. Now that it is burst and splattered all over the land they are all printing story's about how fcuked up everything is and how nobody saw it coming. The bubble in Poland is a lot worse than anything here but there are some who wouldn't notice a bubble even if their dumb ass was submerged in a bubble-bath.

Krakow Post Forum: posted by polsky on May.04.2010

A mate of mine who is a journalist for a local newspaper in the lovely land of saints and scholars told me that sponsors for the paper would pull out if they printed the facts about the property bubble bursting. So they all went along with the scam and only printed lies to maintain the illusion. Now that it is burst and splattered all over the land they are all printing story's about how fcuked up everything is and how nobody saw it coming. The bubble in Poland is a lot worse than anything

here but there are some who wouldn't notice a bubble even if their dumb ass was submerged in a bubble-bath.

How about the dirty tricks Mark?.........and the only twat is you. You need a good memory if you are going to tell lies, Mr Warsawski....lol

Sorry admin but I am allowed to answer when people like this attack my integrity and reputation.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


"buddy"?.........I can assure you that I choose my friends carefully and you would never be in that catagory. Friends respect each other. The only thing you respect Mark are your own, self opinionated views which you never back up with facts. As WB says (which was also deleted by admin) "he finds your rantings amusing". Personally, I never find lies and misleading information "amusing", we get enough of that from our governments and banks. People who write in with questions deserve a straight answer and useful advice. They do not need you impersonating 50 different people, slagging down everything to do with property.

You call me a developer. OK, as such, I have a good knowlege of the Real Estate market, also as a builder, I know the costs of land, materials and labour. Apart from the fact that you cannot afford property in Krakow, what qualifies you to advise on any of these topics?. You have been caught out too many times, spamming different forums and now you say its a "cut and paste" job carried out by one of your alias's. Do you think the people on this forum are as stupid as you?

Get a life Mark, or, at least study the subject that you wish to denigrate.

Real Estate / House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again? [228]


Mark, you are a basket case. You lie, every time you are caught out. I have made 327 posts over a period of two and a half years, so where are the "thousands" of posts that you accuse me of writing?. Just look at the way you have tried to change "Milky's" (yourself) writing style and "accent", do you really think that Irish people say "Yee", perhaps you are thinking of Quakers in the old American films. Why has "Milky" never talked like that before?

If you have the bottle Mark, PM me your address and I will come and have a word in your eye.
Your just a gutless spammer with Schizophrenic tendencies.

Real Estate / Making an offer for Polish houses [30]

If this were true, why, at the first property auction in Warsaw last year, out of 27 lots, only 7 were sold. The rest failed to reach the reserve price and there were 300 potential buyers bidding.

I would assume that this means the buyer does not dictate the price.
The next time you fill your car up with petrol, offer 2 zlóty per litre and tell us the response you get.

Real Estate / Making an offer for Polish houses [30]


No, the point being that if the buyer dictated the price, they would have sold everything.

Having an auction was a stupid idea. Cash investors would want to pay silly money and first time buyers would have to risk paying a deposit and then trying to get a mortgage. In the UK, a buyer would already have a "firm" mortgage offer in place before bidding. You cannot do that in Poland. The banks here want all the paperwork and then they still take 4-8weeks to make a decision.

Real Estate / Making an offer for Polish houses [30]

skibum

What part of the post do you not understand?

Real Estate / Making an offer for Polish houses [30]

Yes, I did mean that the auction in Poland was a silly idea., plus, mortgage facilities are not in place.

skibum:
Not if the seller sets a reserve


Skibum does not seem to understand that if the seller sets a reserve price which is not reached, the potential buyer is not going to be able to purchase, therefore the buyer does not dictate the price, the seller does. Whether the seller is greedy, stupid, whatever.

milky:
I would offer him 50 % and wait and if no reply wait a bit longer and if no reply wait a bit longer and hopefully by then he would be delighted with the 50% maybe even 30%. Or just rent and wait as gravity always wins..Buying now would not be a gamble just acute stupidity .


plk123, you are dealing with Mark Biernat (alias "Milky") so either give up or accept that this person is mentally deranged and will answer you with about 30 other different names and has been predicting an 80% price crash for the past two years.


Skibum. It does not matter if its overvalued, the buyer still does not dictate the price.
Since last Summer, the price of a barrel of oil has dropped from nearly $140 a barrel to $60 a barrel at the beginning of this week. Have you seen petrol prices fall by 50%. You might use the argument that petrol is not the same as property but the principles are just the same, the oil companies do not care if you buy less petrol now, they know that you will have to buy eventually and they will get the price they want.

If somebody is desperate for money then they may sell their property/assets at a knock down price (distressed sales/reposessions). Firstly you have to find a person in these circumstanes and secondly, you have to really want what they have to sell. You should also realise that 10% of the people who put their property on the market, change their minds and withdraw the property, even after serious offers.

80% of buyers are trading up to more expensive properties, so, with the banks wanting larger deposits to safeguard the equity, many sellers, will not move unless they get the price they want for their existing property.