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Making an offer for Polish houses


skibum 8 | 62
23 May 2010 #1
I know there could be a wide range of answers to this but here goes..

What would you consider to be the amount wanted compared to the amount asked for houses in Poland?

For example would an offer of 75% of the asking price be reasonable or an insult?
richasis 1 | 420
23 May 2010 #2
Any offer less than 110% of the asking price would be an insult :)
poland_
23 May 2010 #3
For example would an offer of 75% of the asking price be reasonable or an insult?

Depends on how good your Polish is and how many bottles of vodka you wish to drink with the owner of the property.

On a serious note most real estate agents in Poland are greedy crooks and they price property high in order to bring it down, so you believe you are getting a bargain. The only way to know if the price you are paying is a market price is to do an " expertise" on the property and area, what this means in reality is if a house is quoted at 300 Sqm, this will include the garage, basement and roof, there is a percentage calculation per Sqm price that is accepted for all of these areas. The " expertise" will check the size of the house on the legal document and the price of all houses in the area that have been sold lets say in the last twelve months. Once you have an " expertise" carried most sellers will take notice of your offer if it is close to actual market value.
plk123 8 | 4,148
24 May 2010 #4
these somehow don't go together and really, the first statement is the only true one here.. i don't think there is such a think as a fair market value.
bolek 6 | 330
24 May 2010 #5
For example would an offer of 75% of the asking price be reasonable or an insult?

I would offer 60% of the asking price and walk away, the owner will soon ring you , patience is a virtue more so in real estate.
poland_
24 May 2010 #6
i don't think there is such a think as a fair market value.

The market price is set by the buyer.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 May 2010 #7
If this were true, why, at the first property auction in Warsaw last year, out of 27 lots, only 7 were sold. The rest failed to reach the reserve price and there were 300 potential buyers bidding.

I would assume that this means the buyer does not dictate the price.
The next time you fill your car up with petrol, offer 2 zlóty per litre and tell us the response you get.
Wroclaw Boy
24 May 2010 #8
On a serious note most real estate agents in Poland are greedy crooks and they price property high in order to bring it down, so you believe you are getting a bargain.

Crap owners,vendors, developers price property not agents. They can adivse ONLY, who listens to a Polish estate agent anyway??

I would offer 60% of the asking price and walk away, the owner will soon ring you , patience is a virtue more so in real estate.

crap, is that why you have negative equity on that apartment, practice what you preach dude.

The market price is set by the buyer.

No its an equilibriam between buyer and sellar. Imagine prices set by buyers, that would be nuts....

The next time you fill your car up with petrol, offer 2 zlóty per litre and tell us the response you get.

Yeh, weird that one coming from a self confessed consultant too.
OP skibum 8 | 62
24 May 2010 #9
If this were true, why, at the first property auction in Warsaw last year, out of 27 lots, only 7 were sold. The rest failed to reach the reserve price and there were 300 potential buyers bidding.

Haven't you just disproven your own point. This is an example of the buyer setting the market value, The seller set it too high so he didn't sell, when he reduces the reserve maybe he will.
Wroclaw Boy
24 May 2010 #10
This is an example of the buyer setting the market value, The seller set it too high so he didn't sell, when he reduces the reserve maybe he will.

He may sell at a reduced price but then again that may be at a personal loss. If the seller waits the market may recover slightly and prices begin to increase.

I have financial interests in one such small property here in Poland, its for sale but not my decision to make, the vendor (a family member) is holding out for a set price and will not take a panny less, hes had plenty of offers. I find that common in Poland. If it were upto me i'd accept one of the offers but he will not budge, he'll probably get the asking price in the end.

Swings and round abouts.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 May 2010 #11
skibum

Haven't you just disproven your own point

No, the point being that if the buyer dictated the price, they would have sold everything.

Having an auction was a stupid idea. Cash investors would want to pay silly money and first time buyers would have to risk paying a deposit and then trying to get a mortgage. In the UK, a buyer would already have a "firm" mortgage offer in place before bidding. You cannot do that in Poland. The banks here want all the paperwork and then they still take 4-8weeks to make a decision.
OP skibum 8 | 62
24 May 2010 #12
No, the point being that if the buyer dictated the price, they would have sold everything.

Not if the seller sets a reserve
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 May 2010 #13
skibum

What part of the post do you not understand?
milky 13 | 1,657
24 May 2010 #14
I would offer him 50 % and wait and if no reply wait a bit longer and if no reply wait a bit longer and hopefully by then he would be delighted with the 50% maybe even 30%. Or just rent and wait as gravity always wins..Buying now would not be a gamble just acute stupidity .

Or if you believe there is a buyer seller equilibrium in Poland LOL just give him 110 % and joint the rest of the herd.

Housing prices have stabilized , and soon they will grow again - convincing developers . Employees of real estate offices urge to buy and do not delude yourself into price reductions in the future. Financial advisors who are interested in selling mortgages ensure that more than a few percent reductions in housing prices will not.

Those who sell apartments on the secondary market , stubbornly maintain inflated prices , believing that someone in the end these properties will buy from them . Intending to buy an apartment postpone the decision , hoping that it will soon pay a few tens of percent less than today. Who is right ? In Poland it is a huge demand for housing , so prices will rise year on year by at least 10-15 per cent . Buy today because tomorrow will be more expensive - such slogans were recently fed . Is it really our market is so specific that we have to pay for housing as much as the people of Western Europe or the United States , although several are earning less than they?

OP skibum 8 | 62
24 May 2010 #15
Avalon I understand it all, it's a shame the same cannot be said of you. I agree with the post you've just highlighted, it's you that disagreed, but then proceeded to disprove your own arguement.
bolek 6 | 330
24 May 2010 #16
crap, is that why you have negative equity on that apartment, practice what you preach dude.

What sort of nonsense is this, do you suggest to pay the full amount plus a few bottles of vodka just because the owner wants that price. Real Estate is based on what a person is prepared to pay for a property, supply and demand factors in, as are interest rates and rates of unemployment. Just because somebody wants a certain price doesn't mean you jump and accept. There are many properties (especially in the country area's) that have been on the market for years. The smart operator buys and sell, the silly one holds onto property expecting a price he will never receive..
opts 10 | 260
24 May 2010 #17
Exercise some common sense.
Check what similar properties sold for during the last six months.
Check how much it would cost you to build a similar property.
Check to see if the number of sales and the sales prices are doing down, up or sideways.
Decide what would be a reasonable price to pay for the property and how long are you going to say in the property. Only them make a decision. Property prices are determined by a supply and demand. Sometime, both are out of balance. It is possible, even in Poland, for home prices to go down. The economic problems in Europe, with Greece, Spain, etc., might adversely affect Poland; since, the country does not exist in a vacuum.
bolek 6 | 330
24 May 2010 #18
there are two types of buyers in real estate, the person who buys to use as a family home and the shrewd investor... generally the person buying to use as a family home does'nt mind paying a bit more if the property/location suits, the investor asks will I make money out of it...
milky 13 | 1,657
25 May 2010 #19
Dont check similar properties bought over the last 6 months, check prices in general over the last 6 to 10 years....get a perspective on how Fcuked up it all is over there. The is no reasonable price in property bubble. I f Polish wages triple this year well maybe then the prices might be reasonable.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
25 May 2010 #20
The is no reasonable price in property bubble.

How much does a house or a flat cost here?
plk123 8 | 4,148
25 May 2010 #21
The market price is set by the buyer.

you do mean the seller..

I would offer 60% of the asking price and walk away, the owner will soon ring you

no they won't... see just above and see post #7.

No its an equilibriam between buyer and sellar.

that would be true in the rest of the world but no in PL

he'll probably get the asking price in the end.

after waiting for it for years while paying and paying taxes and whatever other incidental costs may be.. polish people make no sense sometimes.

Having an auction was a stupid idea. Cash investors would want to pay silly money

not necessary.. cash is king normally and an auction can make a sale faster then any other way. maybe you meant as an auction in PL is a silly idea as everyone is way to cheap to make it work..

Not if the seller sets a reserve

bingo.. you just admitted that it's the seller who dictates the "value"

I would offer him 50 % and wait and if no reply wait a bit longer and if no reply wait a bit longer and hopefully by then he would be delighted with the 50% maybe even 30%. Or just rent and wait as gravity always wins..Buying now would not be a gamble just acute stupidity .

hope you're not holding your breath at the same time.. sellers in PL rarely budge.

I understand it all,

sure doesn't seem so..

it's you that disagreed, but then proceeded to disprove your own arguement.

isn't that actually what you did? look at where i quoted you above the quote from milky.

The smart operator buys and sell, the silly one holds onto property expecting a price he will never receive..

but that is PL..

Property prices are determined by a supply and demand.

that is true everywhere but PL.. poles are too greedy to play that kind of game there. check wroclaw boy's post.. i quoted it in this post too...

get a perspective on how Fcuked up it all is over there.

exactly
bolek 6 | 330
25 May 2010 #22
not necessary.. cash is king normally and an auction can make a sale faster then any other way

you have just contradicted your argument, I don't think the greedy pole cares, he just wants the money, unless of course he was desperate to sell.
OP skibum 8 | 62
25 May 2010 #23
PLK

I'll try to explain in words of few syllables so you can understand.

If a seller sets a reserve at auction and it doesn't sell then that is probably not the market value, because if it were it would have sold.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
25 May 2010 #24
I would offer 60% of the asking price and walk away, the owner will soon ring you , patience is a virtue more so in real estate.

Is that what you do in Australia?
2010 Midst of an unsustainable bubble - 50pc overvalued?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_property_bubble#2010_Midst_of_an_unsustainable_bubble_-_50pc_overvalued.3F

I would offer him 50 % and wait and if no reply wait a bit longer and if no reply wait a bit longer and hopefully by then he would be delighted with the 50% maybe even 30%.

Is that what you do in Ireland?

By June 2009, it was reported that around 40% of the price escalation that had occurred during the property boom years ("Celtic Tiger Part 2") of 2001-2007 had been lost

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_property_bubble#The_Crash_of_2009
plk123 8 | 4,148
25 May 2010 #25
I don't think the greedy pole cares, he just wants the money, unless of course he was desperate to sell.

no, greedy pole wants everything and then some.. hardly ever are they desperate to sell.. even if they really are desperate, they won't sell for less then they think the property is worth, even if it's not worth that.

If a seller sets a reserve at auction and it doesn't sell then that is probably not the market value, because if it were it would have sold.

let me say this slower and louder for ya.. the market value is what the greedy seller thinks it is.. whether that is actually what the market "value" is.. (there is no such thing as market value in PL - it's all very arbitrary and based purely on greed not supply and demand)
Avalon 4 | 1,068
25 May 2010 #26
Yes, I did mean that the auction in Poland was a silly idea., plus, mortgage facilities are not in place.

skibum:
Not if the seller sets a reserve


bingo.. you just admitted that it's the seller who dictates the "value"

Skibum does not seem to understand that if the seller sets a reserve price which is not reached, the potential buyer is not going to be able to purchase, therefore the buyer does not dictate the price, the seller does. Whether the seller is greedy, stupid, whatever.

milky:
I would offer him 50 % and wait and if no reply wait a bit longer and if no reply wait a bit longer and hopefully by then he would be delighted with the 50% maybe even 30%. Or just rent and wait as gravity always wins..Buying now would not be a gamble just acute stupidity .


hope you're not holding your breath at the same time.. sellers in PL rarely budge.

plk123, you are dealing with Mark Biernat (alias "Milky") so either give up or accept that this person is mentally deranged and will answer you with about 30 other different names and has been predicting an 80% price crash for the past two years.

skibum

I'll try to explain in words of few syllables so you can understand.

If a seller sets a reserve at auction and it doesn't sell then that is probably not the market value, because if it were it would have sold.

Skibum. It does not matter if its overvalued, the buyer still does not dictate the price.
Since last Summer, the price of a barrel of oil has dropped from nearly $140 a barrel to $60 a barrel at the beginning of this week. Have you seen petrol prices fall by 50%. You might use the argument that petrol is not the same as property but the principles are just the same, the oil companies do not care if you buy less petrol now, they know that you will have to buy eventually and they will get the price they want.

If somebody is desperate for money then they may sell their property/assets at a knock down price (distressed sales/reposessions). Firstly you have to find a person in these circumstanes and secondly, you have to really want what they have to sell. You should also realise that 10% of the people who put their property on the market, change their minds and withdraw the property, even after serious offers.

80% of buyers are trading up to more expensive properties, so, with the banks wanting larger deposits to safeguard the equity, many sellers, will not move unless they get the price they want for their existing property.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
25 May 2010 #27
What would you consider to be the amount wanted compared to the amount asked for houses in Poland?

I am having difficulty understanding your point, here you quite openly ask what would the seller want for the house.

buyer setting the market value

While here you say that it is you, the buyer that sets the price.

Perhaps you could clarify your point?

And as for the "greedy Polish" that many have been talking about, as it seems that you are all from, Ireland, U.S.A, England and Australia, I wouldn't go around putting other nations down until you have looked to your very own people. As the property bubbles in your countries were not created by the greed of Polish people.

And finally, to answer the OP's question:

For example would an offer of 75% of the asking price be reasonable or an insult?

It will do no harm to offer 75%, this is business, the worst that can happen is the person says ''NO'', then you can offer more, if you want.

I doubt that you will get 25% discounted unless, as Avalon has said, the person is desperate for money.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
25 May 2010 #28
Skibum. It does not matter if its overvalued, the buyer still does not dictate the price.
Since last Summer, the price of a barrel of oil has dropped from nearly $140 a barrel to $60 a barrel at the beginning of this week. Have you seen petrol prices fall by 50%.

Unlike oil, property is not a compulsory purchase and its illiquid, its a slow and difficult process to price and go through the selling procedure.

Most of the cost of petrol is is tax and other charges - in Europe its 80%. Quite frankly what you said there is idiotic.

If a seller sets the price and the buyer refuses to pay it, because he can do without or buy from someone else then the seller doesn't set the price does he? Buyer and sellers have to AGREE a price that both can accept, therefore the price is set by both.

80% of buyers are trading up to more expensive properties, so, with the banks wanting larger deposits to safeguard the equity, many sellers, will not move unless they get the price they want for their existing property.

In other words , they do not set the price. If the buyer asks for more than someone is willing to pay its not sold .. ever.
poland_
25 May 2010 #29
What part of the post do you not understand?

I understand that Skibum is a first time buyer in Poland and he is trying to establish the pricing level on the secondary market. Furthermore Avalon I understand that you are most likely involved in real estate in Poland as a Agent/ developer.

No its an equilibriam between buyer and sellar. Imagine prices set by buyers, that would be nuts....

The current real estate market in Poland is a "buyers market" especially on the secondary market. In the current market the price is set by the buyer as there is a surplus of offers to choose, this is not 2006 it is 2010.

Furthermore Skibum when you are dealing with agents, please remember the agent will try to charge you 2% as a fee, but he/she is also representing the seller that would be 4% of your transaction, with a little bit of haggling and a contract drawn up by your lawyer, you can get them down to 1% on the full transaction. The real estate agents in Poland are so desperate they will take what they can get at the moment. When you view a property they will try to get you to sign a paper in which you agree the comission make sure you write on the paper comision to be negotiated. If you have any other questions please feel free to ask me as I have been through this process many times as both a buyer and seller. Good luck
Avalon 4 | 1,068
25 May 2010 #30
Mark, you already know that I am a builder. Its been made perfectly clear in earlier posts.

If you offered me 60% of the asking price for a property I owned I would tell you to fcuk off, in fact, I would tell you to fcuk of anyway as you are an idiot.

peterweg

Unlike oil, property is not a compulsory purchase

Are you sleeping on the streets?, do you rent somewhere to live? I would say that property is compulsory, whichever way you pay for it.

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