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I have to fix Karta Pobytu for EU citizens


jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Mar 2010 #1
After a long time here, I have to fix up a karta pobytu (or is it called a karta obywatelstwa UE now?).

I've checked through some government websites, which aren't particularly helpful, so have the following questions to anyone who's done it recently. Note that this refers to citizens of EU countries only.

Do they still require a zameldowanie, and if so can it be a temporary one?

Do they still require details of work/business?

How much does it cost? (there's conflicting information on the various gov't websites)

How long does it take?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated, since I need to do this as quickly as humanly possible.

And do they require details of ZUS, tax etc?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
24 Mar 2010 #2
Jonnie wrote:

Note that this refers to citizens of EU countries only.

what does this mean? that you are an EU citizen?

I've done a KB several times, I can answer some questions, but mind you, I'm American....I don't know where you're from so it may be different.

First, yes, you need Zameldowanie. I didn't know you could get a temp. Zamel. If there is such a thing, I would doubt you can use it. a KB gives you residency for 1 year and you need to have Zamel. the whole time (legally).

yes, they require details of business/work.

a residency card costs around 450zl after everything is said and done.

after you apply, they have i believe 90 days to review it. after the review period, they may come back to you and tell you things you still need.

regarding taxes, well, that is all connected with your work. in order to work here (legally) you need to be registered with the tax office. and yes, you will have to show proof of this.

you said "long time here".....how long? with the current Schengan rules, it's a bit tricky.
Harry
24 Mar 2010 #3
Do they still require a zameldowanie, and if so can it be a temporary one?

Yes they do and it has to be a temporary one (you can't get one for more than 90 days without the Karta). One thing to remember, when they ask you "when did you come to Poland?" the correct answer is "Last week".

I'm American....I don't know where you're from so it may be different.

It is indeed very different.
OP jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Mar 2010 #4
what does this mean? that you are an EU citizen?

Yes. Since Poland joined the EU the procedure has changed for citizens of EU countries. My only experience of this was pre-2004 and my experience mirrors yours. But the rules have changed for e. They even call the card something different, apparently. But thanks for your kind reply.

The reason I'm panicking is this. I hope to leave Poland in late May for a short contract in a foreign country which has very strict visa rules. If I want to arrange the visa here in Poland, I must regulate my stay here. I haven't needed a Karta Pobytu (or it's EU specific equivalent) for some time, but now do. I have two options, either to get the card as quickly as possible or to go to London for a couple of weeks which would be very inconvenient for me. Hence the question.

If I can't fix the paperwork, I can't take up the job offer. This isn't a tragedy (though a shame because it pays silly money) since I'd probably start a year's contract with the same firm in October, but frankly I'd like to get this out of the way now for a lot of reasons.

Another problem is that the department on ul. Dluga are very inconsistent about what they require. They are closed today, and the online information is vague and conflicting.

I'm interested if anyone British, Irish, etc. has done the formalities recently, and if so, what was required, how much it cost and how long it took.

edit

Yes they do and it has to be a temporary one (you can't get one for more than 90 days without the Karta). One thing to remember, when they ask you "when did you come to Poland?" the correct answer is "Last week

More thanks!

That information is like gold dust, rocking-horse **** or a virgin in Fantom. You wouldn't happen to know what they'll require in terms of other paperwork? eaning work, insurance etc. Since I've only arrived last week that is. And would a month zameldowanie satisfy them? And how long should I expect to wait?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but there's a bit of a race against time here.
bootle
24 Mar 2010 #5
Temp zameldowanie was ok.

I took a copy of my work contract, but don't remember if they needed it (sorry!). It took about 2 weeks.

Didn't cost me anything.

I got mine after living here for over a year, and was told by the lady in the immigration office it didn't matter as long as I'd left the country every 3 months. As there's no way to prove you hadn't (drive across to Germany/Slovakia/Czech and back) there shouldn't be a problem if you've been here a while.

BTW, you don't actually get a card, just a flimsy piece of paper that looks like some kid's homework project to design a certificate!
Harry
24 Mar 2010 #6
And would a month zameldowanie satisfy them? And how long should I expect to wait?

No, I mean that you most recently entered Poland last week. When I went to get mine they wouldn't give me one because even though I have a company and a flat here, I'd been in the country for more than 90 days. So I said "Sorry, I meant 'sometime last week' not 'sometime last year'!" but they still wouldn't give me the damn thing because I couldn't prove that I am entitled to give myself permission to live in my apartment. This despite me being listed in their own records as the owner of the flat and so the person they send the local tax bills to!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,726
24 Mar 2010 #7
Jonni, you should have sent a PM to me, I'd have given you the answers straight away! ;)

And how long should I expect to wait?

Basically -

You need the 3 months temporary zameldowanie first of all, get that from the Urzad Miasta, you know the score. You'll need what it asks for on the form (can't remeber off hand exactly what - some silly amount of photocopies and photos). You'll also need a copy of your health insurance (proof of paying ZUS last month should be adequate), proof of your financial status (advised is to take bank statements and a copy of a work contract stating clearly the amount of hours per week, as well as proof of your own business) - that should be all, but double check with them.

The zameldowanie is easy - as Harry says, "last week" is always the answer. They were actually content in Poznan with my answer of "I went to Germany last week for 10 minutes". They won't care about your other paperwork when going for the zameldowanie - so you can happily lie to them. The Foreigners Office isn't interested in when you crossed the border, only when you registered your address.

Remeber that for the zameldowanie, you'll need the title deeds for the flat you live in, or a contract saying that you can register there, or the owners of the flat in person along with the title deeds.

But - did you ever have the EU residence permit before? It might be much easier to apply for a new one if you already had one, as they'll have done all the checks before - I've never actually dealt with someone reapplying, as most people just apply for the permanent stay after the 5 years is up.

The problem is with the police check - this can take a fair while to be done. Mine took a month to arrange to see me, and it was a month for them to actually report back to the Foreigners Office about me.

Oh, and at least here, it's 1zl to make the application.

What country is it? You might be able to pay someone in the UK to fix it for you.
OP jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Mar 2010 #8
Wow! Thanks for your reply.

But - did you ever have the EU residence permit before?

No. I last had a Karta Pobytu before Poland joined the EU. For most of the time since then I've been on the board of a company and theoretically only visiting every couple of weeks.

The problem is with the police check - this can take a fair while to be done. Mine took a month to arrange to see me, and it was a month for them to actually report back to the Foreigners Office about me.

Horror! I've been on the phone today to a couple of people and they didn't mention any police check. Maybe because they both did this several years ago and the rules have since changed; maybe the Warsaw office don't require this. I've had the old style Karta Pobytu a couple of times and was never visited. I know the Krakow office do visits. Touch wood Warsaw won't, not least because time really is of the essence and that the zameldowanie will be at a friend's address.

Oh, and at least here, it's 1zl to make the application.

This part I like! The website of the voivodship mentions scary sums.

What country is it? You might be able to pay someone in the UK to fix it for you.

It's Saudi and getting a visa has to be done in person.

Thanks for the helpful advice!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,726
24 Mar 2010 #9
No. I last had a Karta Pobytu before Poland joined the EU.

I would try and push this - they should have access to the old paperwork and might be able to speed things up. I assume you've got a PESEL - I would make sure to clearly show them this, and generally anything at all that shows "yes, I have lived here before and no, I'm not some dodgy foreigner". It might even be worth attaching a couple of photocopies of the old Karta Pobytu if you still have it - they won't necessarily want or accept it, but it can't hurt.

I know the Krakow office do visits.

They have a pragmatic attitude here - they do visits, but very often, if the person isn't home, the police just tell them that there are "no problems" - I was visited, wasn't home, they left a number. Came back from holiday, called them - and got told "oh, we decided that you're not a threat to Poland" - which was nice!

But thinking - if you have a PESEL, then they very well might just check your police record using that and not bother with an individual visit. Or what you could even do is submit a copy of your police record in Poland - I *think* you can just go to the police station and pay 50zl for a copy there and then.

This part I like! The website of the voivodship mentions scary sums.

Ah, only for non-EU citizens. :)

It's Saudi and getting a visa has to be done in person.

Oh jeez. I was thinking from your description that it might be somewhere like Russia, where you can pay someone off in London to sort it...but I cannot imagine Saudi doing anything to make it easy for you.

Thanks for the helpful advice!

No problem, I owed you one anyway ;)
OP jonni 16 | 2,485
24 Mar 2010 #10
That's kind! No PESEL (I've never had one). I suppose I am a bit of a dodgy foreigner though here legally etc. Some of my business affairs don't bear too much scrutiny, though there's nothing terrible or illegal there as far as I know. By police check, I think you mean Certyfikat Nekaralnosci which as far as I know is free or a nominal sum.

Oddly enough, when Poland joined the EU, there was a grace period when they just gave them out without checking much and in only a couple of weeks. This seems to have been only short-lived.

Thanks for your advice.
Avalon 4 | 1,068
24 Mar 2010 #11
I had the 5 year residence permit which ran out December. Applied to Krakow for permanent residence (office is at Ul.Ronda 6, which is not mentioned on the government website).

Filled in the forms (downloaded online) in Polish, sent reference letter from local mayor, had to get Zamedlowanie from local office as my address on the residence card is the same, but, they would not believe me. Sent 5 photo's (which they lost), another copy of my passport (which is exactly the same as the one they took a copy of 5 years ago). No fee is mentioned on the website so added a note explaining this and to let me know if there was a fee so I could transfer it.

Two weeks later they replied that I had to attend in person. I explained that it does not say this on the website and that I was told on the phone to "send" these documents.

I refused to go to Krakow so they agreed to let me take the documents to a local office in Tarnow (why they did not let me do this in the first place is beyond my comprehension).

A week later 2 policemen came to the house, looked at my details and informed me that my 5 year residence permit had expired, after explaining that I could live anywhere in the EU without a permit and that Polish people in the UK did not get issued with them. they told me that their job was to see if I was a risk to state security, which is a bit late after 6 years. This was about a month ago. So all in all, I am expecting to hear something in April but I am not going to hold my breath while I'm waiting.

I love this country.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,726
24 Mar 2010 #12
I think the system for dealing with permanent residence applications from EU citizens who have been here for 5 years is a bit of a mess - it's reflected in the way that they don't even issue a proper ID card to permanent residents. The whole thing screams "we had to come up with something and we didn't think about it properly" - then again, when the law was changed by the coalition of ducks, is anyone surprised?
kepler 4 | 19
19 Jan 2018 #13
Merged:

Karta pobytu for an EU citizen



Hey there,
Can someone tell me how to get a karta pobytu as an EU citizen? I already registered my stay and got the yellow ZR document. I also have a temporary address registration. My very long term goal is to get Polish citizenship but I feel a bit lost as most of the information online are somehow meant for non-EU citizens.

Thanks
Alexbrz 3 | 78
22 Jan 2018 #14
Why would you need a karta pobytu as an EU citizen? You can just stay here without.
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jan 2018 #15
You can, however under Polish law, you're required to have one. Not that they can legally enforce it.
MarkC 6 | 20
22 Jan 2018 #16
@kepler
The process for EU citizens is slightly different than non-EU. However, it was a kind of 'let's throw something together at last minute' solution when Poland joined the EU.

Most people involved also don't sometimes understand or see the difference of the process, and in fact, I still have trouble's with certain processes or at least understand them. To give you an example, technically it's quick for a married non-EU citizen to get citizenship than it is for an EU citizen - this is due to the fact that you are can get residency after 2-3 years as a non-EU citizen married to a pole, however, you have to wait 5 years to get a 'right to permanent residency' as an EU citizen, hence, extending the process. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the mess there is a way around this but I'm not entirely sure.

According to EU rules, all you have to do is register your stay within 3 months. Then you're entitled to do as you please, work, live, party etc. Although, that won't stop officials questioning you along the way and misunderstanding the fact that it is indeed different for EU citizens as oppose to non-EU citizens.

In your situation, you will need to keep this document that you have for 5 years. Once this period has passed you may go and apply for a plastic 'permanent residency card' which, believe it or not, will make your life somewhat easier when it comes to certain institutions. Magically, it's like they see the light at the end of the tunnel. 'Oh, yes, a polish document which says permanent resident... yes we can help you'.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been here and from which country are you?
Alexbrz 3 | 78
22 Jan 2018 #17
@jon357
I do? I wonder then why nobody at townhall or where ever in my registration process has pointed me to it. I also wonder what i would need it for. In which situation would i need this card?

I already have a "permanent registration" at townhall. Is this perhaps only interesting when you want to, at some point, take the polish nationality?
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jan 2018 #18
I wonder then why nobody at townhall or where ever in my registration process has pointed me to it.

I doubt anyone there sees it as their role.

I also wonder what i would need it for. In which situation would i need this card?

For example voting.

I already have a "permanent registration" at townhall.

Do you mean flat/house registration - the meldunek?

If you apply for citizenship, your stay in Poland should have always been legal according to the requirements of Polish law. When I did it they needed all the docs.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,151
22 Jan 2018 #19
citizenship

Was it really worth it jon? Can't think what citizenship would do for me. When I was actually going to be a good boy and apply for citizenship, there was some tosh about "giving up your British citizenship." Admittedly that was well in the last century:))
jon357 63 | 14,137
22 Jan 2018 #20
Was it really worth it jon?

I think so. spending most of your adult life somewhere, you get attached to it. Maybe a sort of Stockholm syndrome.

there was some tosh about "giving up your British citizenship."

Still there as of 4 years ago when my OH applied for it, who didn't give his (not British, not EU) citizenship up, and I didn't give either of my two other passports away.


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