Life / What is the reason for POLISH jokes ? [486]

I believe the jokes were supported by US establishment after WWII as an excuse for abandoning Poland. Poland was the 4th allied power, after Soviet Union, US and England and before France. But it was France who got the permanent seat on the Security Council. To defend this betrayal it was convenient to tell people that Polish people were 'bad', stupid and everything in between.

Another issue is Poles in Hollywood movies, in 50s very famous movies had Polish elements, like Someone Like It Hot, The Westside Story, On The Waterfront, The Streetcar Named Desire, etc. Then it ended, why?

Language / Do Poles prefer US American or UK English language? [147]

I think Poles are confused and English people in Poland only aggravate this confusion. There is only one English that Poles (and almost everybody else in the world) are/should be interested in and it is International English called American English or just English. There is no need at all to waste time for English accent. Unfortunately Poles even as they learn and use English are led to believe by some English folks that there are two versions of this language (of course there are almost countess accents) and they need to learn classic/proper/original (pick your word) version. So they opt for this classic but only in their perception. Anywhere and everywhere in the world including England people use International English and that's all they need. Anyway the 'classic' English is only spoken by queen, everybody else has their own heavy accent and really there is no need to bother with that.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [161]

Any doctrine created by Mr. Sikorski has to be taken with a lot of skepticism.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Absolutely right!
I believe the claims are for the time period after September 1, 1939 (property ownership changes caused by WWII).
Poland was a double victim of this war, first attacked by Germany and Soviet Union in 1939, and left to fight alone despite international
treaties, then again sold out at the end of WWII and given along with Cental Europe to Soviet Union as gift for defeating Germany.
There was no free Polish administration in Poland until 1989. The legal Polish goverment in London was delegalized by Western powers in 1945.
The first Polish administration in 50 years implemented legal procedures for former property owners that work very well.
There will be no summary 'reparations'.
If anybody needs any convincing, please look at Swiss claims.

News / Communist era 'newspeak' appeals the most to Poland PiS supporters (what a surprise) [89]

Of course you all realize that Mr. Michnik and his Gazeta Wyborcza are not impartial observers in this study, do you?

Mr. Michnik calls Gen. Jaruzelski his friend and an honorable man. For your information Jaruzelski is a former communist
leader and responsible for thousands of deaths and broken lives during his rule that included declaring war on 'his' nation,
so called martial law. Mr. Michnik is staunchly anti-PiS and therefore his studies on the subject are to be taken with a lot of salt.

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]

You know that you sound really silly claiming there were countries friendly to Jews, only they didn't accept Jews (maybe that's why there were

friendly?) Nice firends you found. I like you very much too, but stay away!

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


OK, you asked ironsite, here it is:

Antisemite: a person disliked by a Jew.

Precise enough for you?

History / Why are Jews pestering Poland for "proper" WW2 monetary restitution/reparations? [750]


Of course he/she meant extortion (Extortion, also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction is a criminal offence which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion.) Definitely we have it here regarding 'summary' payment requests.

But someone mentioned that this is for individual claims. In such case there is no issue (17 pages of polemics about nothing, isn't it funny), Poland already has laws regarding individual properties. Actually my friend told me about how he got his house back in mid 90s (more than 15 years ago). His family (Polish Catholic) was extremely well of and owned several buildings in pre-war Warsaw. The family left Poland in September '39 and never returned after the war (very smart decision avoiding sure prosecution by (very likely) Mr. Michnik's brother, and after one day trial death penalty...). Anyway my friend explained the laws this way: a property owner can receive the property back, if 1. the building is still standing (no claims to lots), and 2. the building is in government hands (if it was sold to private owner, who purchased it in good faith according to current laws, it's final). Out of all possessions only one building that my friend's family owned in pre-war Warsaw qualified and sure enough it was returned to him after few months court case. Since at that time he lived in the US he sold it to family still living in Poland. Case closed. And as I said it was mid 90's.

So now we are back to 'summary' requests by Jewish organizations. It would help to include some numbers into Swiss situation, which as somebody previously mentioned is very similar. The initial claims were for Jewish money held in Swiss banks illegally after WWII and the amount mentioned was 'in excess of 10 billion dollars.' The Swiss questioned the amount. An independent auditing of bank's books was ordered and the Swiss appropriated 500 million dollars for the audit. Before the results of this audit was even publish the Jewish organizations started attacking the audit as not-fair, wrong, etc despite having a large number of Jews performing the audit (along with some Swiss of course). Hastily a 'summary' agreement was reached to pay Jewish organizations 1.25 billion dollars and the sum was paid. How were the money spent is not a subject of this thread.

The results of the audit? In all Swiss banks 140 million dollars were found that could be traced to Jewish property.
So let's stop this discussion about nothing.

USA, Canada / Polonia who needs help with Polish Documentary [27]

Another provocateur working hard to diminish the image of Poland. Who pays you? Never mind I know.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Let's see. How about this: "England guarantees Polish borders", then "we guarantee borders but we did not say THE Borders.
Poland will have A border, will it not?"

Of course it depends what the meaning of the word "IS" is.

The answer to the thread question:

Poland got a terrible deal in any term, land included, in the postwar settlement. Just few facts:
for 90% of Poles the war ended in Poland in 1989,
just ask any Pole if they would rather have Wroclaw and Szczecin or Lwow and Wilno.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


You are kidding, right?

Otherwise I tend to understand you said that Poland emerged from WWII with enhanced class of inteligentia, enriched materially?

btw, Poland was not as divided as you may have heard. Have you heard the joke about the left and right side of Israeli politics?

It goes like this:
"the Israeli left come form eastern Europe (Poland, Russia, whatever), and the right? They graduated from Polish gimnazjums."

You heard about Betar? There is a movie coming out.


You got me Harry. I cannot quote the article, but I believe it said that "western borders (or borders with Germany) were guaranteed",

do you agree with this? If yes, they still didn't keep the treaty, we did not get to keep borders with Germany.

How ridiculous it would be if we did, but even England could not insist on it however they tried, didn't they?

There must be a reason why 70 years (and counting) the British archives from WWII are sealed in Polish matters.
Do you agree it is related to the terrible deal that Poland got after WWII? I think so.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, August 25, 1939

Article I:
(...) Contracting Parties become engaged in hostilities (...) in consequence of aggression (...), the other Contracting Party will at once give (...) all the support and assistance in its power.

Aricle iV
The methods of applying the undertakings of mutual assistance provided for by the present Agreement are established between the competent naval, military and air authorities of the Contracting Parties.

Article V
Without prejudice (...) to give each other mutual support and assistance immediately on the outbreak of hostilities (...).

Again, you're right, there is nothing about borders, only immediate assistance that was 'established' and not given. I was not able to find the secret ammendment that named Germany. So this is how you want to defend English conscience? Wow! Or maybe you want to defend this part of proud British history:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time

Just open the Archives!!!!!! Or we need to wait 200 years?

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


It is dishonest to sign an agreement that one does not plan to keep. Both Westerplatte and Warsaw (twice 1939 and 1944) had to capitulate because of lack of ammunition, water, food and medicines. Because of English assurances Poland was pushed into war.

And talking about hypothetical situations:

Suppose there was a soccer tournament in Poland and Ukraine, suppose that Germany were playing in Ukraine, where would you think the German team would be headquarted? In Lwow? Kiev? Maybe Krakow if they wanted to be close to tens of thousands of fans that surely were going to follow them?

Guess again.

Invitation to Gdansk: "Hey people come with your team, rediscover your roots".... and stay?

Hans Frank said that thousand years will have to pass for Germany to forget the WWII. Looks like 67 is mighty for some.

History / Terrible past for the Jews in Poland? [930]


Suppose you are talking about a country that had a history of having problems with staying indendent (like in last 300 years was
indendependent maybe 30-40 years nonconsecutive ?) Suppose this country had powerful neighbors that always think about partitioning
this country. Suppose further that your minority had roots in this area.

Wouldn't you think that this minority would like to be present when the next partitionig of this country takes place?

And keep a lot of noise about their grievances so that a restitution is made to them? Maybe even a small area just for them?

Makes sense? I don't know, you tell me.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


Precisely. I believe it was called Drang nach Osten:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drang_nach_Osten

Yes, they did not know where they would be playing, what shame.

Regarding England, if they had no intention of fighting in 1939 they should have done another Munich. But wait they did another Munich, didn't they?

Only it was 6 years later in Potsdam, after Polish people were killed and Poland was ruined. Thanks Brits!

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


I believe US did not have a pact with Poland, but maybe you know better.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]

I hope I repeat facts not communist propaganda, I really hope so.
Anyway I am not anti-British, just realist, I know their hands were tied 1939 and later as well.

But if you want to know what Polish people think about British, here is one story:

it is 1973, June 6, Poland plays England for qualification to World Cup '74 in Germany. The best Polish best player Lubanski scores a goal,
then he gets a ball and looks like he would be again in position to score. Then brutal faul by Roy McFarland and Lubanski's career is finished.

Poland goes on to qualify after memorable Wembley match, then goes to WC and finishes 3-rd without Lubanski. What could have been
if our best player was able to play? The history would be different.
I am not making any comparison to gen. Sikorski. It's just bad luck that accidents happen when England and Poland interests collide.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


I don't know.
I let you compare Warsaw and Prague after WWII and income they generate now from tourism.
Also I'd like to hope that Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski would be able to write more. That's all.

History / Why have Poles contributed so little to Academics? (Particularly Science) [180]


Poles haven't contributed to media ownership, that much is true. Therefore they are nazis, collborators, stupid, scum etc.

Point in case: full face restoration surgery in the US. Huge media event, never mentioned Prof. Maria Siemionow nationality.

History / Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years? [195]


Ladykangaroo, you are very dangerous to some people on this forum. And thank you for that.

Few facts about Poland:
in recent years 2 million Poles emmigrated to foreign countries, that is more than 5% of the population,
the birthrate is at 1.26, the lowest in Europe and 206-th in the world.

Can these numbers justify calling the situation in Poland 'peaceful extermination'?

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


you cannot be more wrong, but do continue to push your propaganda

btw I understand why they're cutting teaching history in Poland. If Polish youth learned what happened to their country during
WWII let's just say they would not be friends of England, USA, France, Germany, Russia etc.

The truth is already known (English hiding their archives only support it), the next is apology and reparations!

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


So....current Polish inhabitants of Gdansk would benefit from separating Gdansk from Poland ... great .... and Poland would benefit as well, or it's
irrelevant?
Look, Germany started two world wars. Poland has been devastated in both, especially Warszawa in WWII, first 25% in 39, then 70% in 44.
As result of these wars Germany lost eastern provinces by no decision of Poland that didn't even exist before WWI and was a loser in WWII, despite

having 'right' legal treaties and and hundreds of thousands soldiers fighting 'on the right side'.
Polish people want to live in peace with its neighbors. If Germany takes ownership of nazism and 'Polish concentration and death camps', if they
pay reparations for 50 years of occupation, for physical and human costs (I cannot even start to think about this), if Polish cities of Lwow and Wilno

can somehow become Polish again, then we can talk about anything and I can assure you we want Germans to feel justice. However, since such

probability is nill for the next 100 years, let's forget this subject. Let's just say that Germany losing of Gdansk and Wroclaw was the price for returning

to sanity. They needed help, and this was the price. And lasting benefit is that they see what can/will happen if they lose sanity again.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


ph.news.yahoo/photos/german-chancellor-merkel-interior-mini ster-friedrich-bdv-president-photo-192056854.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich and President of the German Federal Association of Expellees (BdV) Erika Steinbach look at an interactive map as they visit the exhibition "Heimat Weh" (Aching for the Home Country) before the BdV annual congress in Berlin, March 20, 2012. REUTERS

Aching for the home country? A few bumblebrains?

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


in my humble opinion it is utterly stupid to take 77 year old poet to court for slander which while may not be provable, is nevertheles common knowledge

among population. What does he have to lose in court? On the other hand it motivates him to write more, if anything to express his frustrations.

And poems live forever.

What does it prove? That Michnik lost his sense of reality? Or after all he is stupid? Opinions welcome.

News / The spiritual heirs of the Polish Communist Party [91]


No, it's creating a martyr.

When communist court sentenced great Polish writer Wankowicz to jail in 1960s, they never attempted to execute the order.
People say that Wankowicz on few occasions was seen knocking on the jail door requesting to take him in. They wouldn't.

So please go ahead, jail Mr. Rymkiewicz, this should inspire him to write a poem or two.

Life / Catholic "Telewizja Trwam" from Poland - your thoughts? [98]


It's about replacing analog with digital TV transmission (done in the US few years ago).
During this switch several digital frequencies will become available for transmission 'over the air', therefore free
of charge. The government wants only 'friendly' stations to be there. TV Trwam would have to be on cable
or satelite for additional fee.

Some of TV Trwam programming:

on raising retirement age to 67 (Polish)
on demographics/low birth rate (Polish)
on Smolensk tragedy investigation (English/Polish)
on winter problems with agriculture (Polish)

News / History lessons no more in Poland (Tusk's change) [61]


wrong, what's happening in Poland is Americanization of everything, the American model has been proven beneficial (to those in power of course)
and it being replicated. That's all.

History / Poland did reasonably well in land terms out of the postwar settlement [270]


nor should it be


States? Why then all this talk about political integration, about 'regionization', about national governments being to big to solve small problems, and too small to solve big problems?


Is European influence shrinking? It did after WWII, but now? It may be growing in some regions. Anyway, the common interest. After 50 years of occupation followed by 20 years of 'reformed communist' and foreign corporations' government is it hard to understand that Poles feel nervous about Germany? Not the government but German people? How do they feel about the terrible deal that Poland got after WWII, when Stalin took more than half of the country and shifted her borthers west?

Life / Polish word for 'queue' [18]


Maybe if you told them to 'get in line' instead of 'queue' it would work?

But seriously I don't understand the problem, doesn't everyone have an assigned seat at that time?
If they're rushing on board just let them, then you can board when it's empty. Of course I haven't seen it
but is it really that bad?